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Add a small amount of Mexallon to Omber to make it more competitive.
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Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#21 - 2015-09-05 15:52:23 UTC
Starbuilder Stasarik wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
The reason omber is of such low value is because so many folks mine it. Omber isn't the problem. Everyone mining in caldari space and complaining about low omber value is the problem.

I'm both a problem solver and a leet haxor. I've combined the two tallents to help you folks out. Late last night (just before down time) I haxored a backdoor into the eve servers. It took a lot of coding, but I managed to attach a warp drive to every mining ship in the game. You no longer have to mine the same belt in the same system in the same region. You can go anywhere in eve (except Jove space of course).

You're welcome!!

(Serendipity bows to the crowd and basks in the cheers of joy)



Pro Tip: adding a small amount of mex or anything else to the over mined caldari omber roids will just tank the value of what you added.

Putting your sarcasm to its side, there comes a point when you have to ask whether it's wise game balance to make the optimal solution to something "do something else." It is like saying that the optimal solution to many things in EVE is to use an alt. "Just use an alt" may be the optimal solution, but in an MMO, it should not be.

I do not even mine in Caldari space but Omber is found in anomaly deposits as well. The solution is to always ignore it. But why? It is another sign of poor game balance to saying "it's better to ignore this and get its resources from Kernite" which also often spawns with it in the ore anomalies.

Also the problem with Omber is not that it is overmined. It is that Isogen is not needed in enough quantities to make the amount of Isogen from Omber necessary. Kernite receives 2/3 as much Isogen per-m3 as Omber but also has a lot of other very useful minerals in it.


If you need a market for isogen Minmatar space is starving for the stuff, freighter that s**t to Rens, stat !

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#22 - 2015-09-05 18:18:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:


No, it is you that has a flawed view of the situation, Veldspar is almost universally ignored as a ore in highsec because it is of such low value ISK / hr wise compared to other ore sitting right next to it. I have been mining in highsec for 3.5 years and Veldspar has never balanced out as you claim it should.

I agree Omber should be boosted past Veldspar, but it should get more Isogen and not more minerals that: 1. it doesnt have and 2. are in such abundance that the for the very bottom of the ISK barrel.

Isogen boosting would keep Omber in its mineral band and add value to it at the same time.

Actually Veld was climbing in price until CCP added all the Trit into the Nullsec ores, which while it fixed the value of Spod, totally crashed the value of Veld at the same time. Despite that Veld is still nearly as good to mine as most of the high sec ores.

Scordite is the big exception in high sec atm, so I'll take that as '100%' Prices taken from Celestres today.

Table as follows.
Arkonor 178%
Bistot 197%
Crokite 156%
Ochre 140%
Gneiss 140%
Hedbergite 134%
Hemorphite 127%
Jaspet 123%
Kernite 94%
Mercoxit 355%
Omber 65%
Plagioclase 93%
Pyroxeres 90%
Scordite 100%
Spodumain 147%
Veldspar 90%

So, we can see from that that Veld is only 10% less per hour than the best highsec ore. Which puts a lie to your claim that Veld sucks and always has sucked. It's equal to Pyrox, and chasing Kernite & Plag also. Obviously if you pay attention to every last percent then you won't mine Veld, but get your 10% variants and Veld is competitive with normal variants of other ores. Which is a reasonably close balance overall.
On the other hand, we can see that Omber is 35% worse. So there is no way Omber will ever be competitive under those numbers. So something needs to be done.


Your claim was that ores adjacent would equalize over time, veldspar according to YOU has only achieved this with one ore pyroxeres (which i doubt by the way, but ill let that go).

After 13 years Veldspar hasnt equalized out with scordite or plagioclase, so just how long does this universal equalization of value take, im pretty old already and im eager to mine veldspar, so just when do you predict this equalization with scordite is going to happen, 20 years from now, 30 years, because if its in the 50+ years from now category i guess my dreams of mining veldspar are going to have to remain just that.

Btw, I just checked the price of tritanium over the last full year (you know before the mineral shift took place) and guess what, trit prices were NOT rising, they were dead flat. It has lost value since the mineral shift but so have the other minerals you mine in highsec and Yes veldspar has, as always remained dead last as a profit maker (excepting omber), keep mining velspar though i hate smart competition in my market place.

And now let us move away from the abstraction of charts and spreadsheets and get to real world numbers. I tried mining veldspar to see if it would outperform mining scordite, heres what i got ACTUALLY MINING, not relying on spreadsheets or theory crafting:

Before: average mining return 120 million daily ( mining scordite).

After: average mining return 90 million daily (mining veldspar)

Because you're not that bright i'll do the math for you: net loss mining Veldspar: 30 million daily.

You can do the cherry-picking thing on both veldspar and any other ore, ive come across scordite belts with zero of the high yield ores so i know people cherry pick scordite.

If you compare cherry picking veld to cherry picking scordite guess what, without even doing a real world comparison i can tell you that, YES AGAIN, mining Veldspar is for morons.

So keep sniffing paint and blissfully mining veldspar because like i said i hate intelligent competition in my chosen markets.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#23 - 2015-09-05 23:33:59 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
[quote=Maldiro Selkurk]



Did you even look at the numbers?
Diffrence between Scordite and Kernite (best and 2nd best) is larger than with Kernite and Veldspar (about 50% larger). Then we have Omber far away down there somewhere.

The problem with using "daily" income from mining as any metric is that you can easily mine 1-2hours more or less on any given day screwing the total whatever way you feel like. Fact is that m3 value of Veldspar is 90% of the m3 value of Scordite and on top of that Veldspar take less space so you in theory will get closer to listed m3 per cycle.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#24 - 2015-09-06 01:37:51 UTC
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
[quote=Maldiro Selkurk]



Did you even look at the numbers?
Diffrence between Scordite and Kernite (best and 2nd best) is larger than with Kernite and Veldspar (about 50% larger). Then we have Omber far away down there somewhere.

The problem with using "daily" income from mining as any metric is that you can easily mine 1-2hours more or less on any given day screwing the total whatever way you feel like. Fact is that m3 value of Veldspar is 90% of the m3 value of Scordite and on top of that Veldspar take less space so you in theory will get closer to listed m3 per cycle.


And the problem with theory crafting is that it is wrong. Put your butt in a mining ship and stop pissing around with spreadsheets, you're going to find the same thing that EFT warriors find when their perfectly crafted 1200 dps battleship hits nowwhere near that way in game.

You are basing your discussion on a fantasy im basing mine in in game experience, guess who's is more reflective of actual game play. ill give you a hint, its not you.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#25 - 2015-09-06 01:43:34 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

And the problem with theory crafting is that it is wrong. Put your butt in a mining ship and stop pissing around with spreadsheets, you're going to find the same thing that EFT warriors find when their perfectly crafted 1200 dps battleship hits nowwhere near that way in game.

You are basing your discussion on a fantasy im basing mine in in game experience, guess who's is more reflective of actual game play. ill give you a hint, its not you.

Oddly enough when you earn 'x' per m^3, and your strip miners always pull in 'x' with no variation in hits...... you can accurately theory craft mining.
Unless of course you were utterly lazy and didn't use a survey scanner therefore deliberately biasing your results by deliberating wasting cycles on nearly empty rocks.

So basically, you are wrong. Deal with it. And I answered all your other 'challenges' in my first post also.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#26 - 2015-09-06 02:56:47 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

And the problem with theory crafting is that it is wrong. Put your butt in a mining ship and stop pissing around with spreadsheets, you're going to find the same thing that EFT warriors find when their perfectly crafted 1200 dps battleship hits nowwhere near that way in game.

You are basing your discussion on a fantasy im basing mine in in game experience, guess who's is more reflective of actual game play. ill give you a hint, its not you.

Oddly enough when you earn 'x' per m^3, and your strip miners always pull in 'x' with no variation in hits...... you can accurately theory craft mining.
Unless of course you were utterly lazy and didn't use a survey scanner therefore deliberately biasing your results by deliberating wasting cycles on nearly empty rocks.

So basically, you are wrong. Deal with it. And I answered all your other 'challenges' in my first post also.


You answered why after 13 years your theory that the value if veldspar would catch up to scordite never happened.

There is a rule about theories maybe i should enlighten you about, they are wrong when even one case refutes the theory.

Scordite has consistantly refuted your theory for 13 years, if my empircal evidence isnt enough how about the data collected by hundreds of thousands of miners over the course of 13 years, is that enough to convince you your theory sucks, nope it wont, so keep dry-humping your spreadsheets and keep your head buried in the sand.

Btw, a loved the, "i win". declaration despite your own evidence refuting your claim, loved that one, true classic !

Has that, "I win", thing ever actually worked for you before ??

Pro quality theory support, pissed myself laughing, course that could just because im an old dude but its all good either way !!!

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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