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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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EVE Online: The Waiting Game
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Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#21 - 2015-09-01 08:48:05 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
sp isnt everything, i have 70mil and i still need my friends to bail me out Cool



It's not everything but it certainly helps.


yeah it helps but but it doesnt give you the skills to actually win a fight, slingshotting, dictating range etc etc are all rl skills not sp. pilot skill is certainly more important than paper skills

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Bitevni Shalina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-09-01 09:04:50 UTC
Eve is worst PvP MMOG at the moment. No match making, long wait to get a battle and you need to pay a lot of real money to play it (or grind hours and hours) and to get enouth ISK to replace your ships + fittings. It will take so much time till you will find with whom to fight and from whom to flee. All those super pro elite PvP-iers in this forum fight only fights, where they are sure they will win. And it is usually hour till you fight proper target.

Other way around is to join FW or become a little fish in a large blob, where your whole battle is just listen to the FC and switch targets accordingly. Life of a bolt inside of an engine.

So if your target is to get fair PvP fights, get them quickly and feel, that you, you alone and your skill can decide how the fight will end - go play World of tanks, warships, war thunder etc... You get instant fights for free andwith some form of match making.

Eve is different. It is about live in a WORLD, where you build your home, get circle of friends and fun planning, waiting and finally get a single kill in entire day. You pay CCP to be part of the world, not for some pew-pew. Everything takes real time in this almost real world.
Avvy
Doomheim
#23 - 2015-09-01 09:07:41 UTC
Caladan Panzureborn wrote:
For someone that doesn't mind the traditional MMORPG level grind, the skill training here is killing me. Not only do I not mind the normal MMO grind, I'm starting to miss it. It feels like everything I want to do is days and weeks away and I'm just really frustrated with it and am on the fence about continuing to sub and play this game.
I bought a Procurer with ISK earned solely from ore mining in my little venture. Can't fly it for at least another 10-14 days. Couldn't even move it from the station where I bought it to my home base. That was one of the more anti-climactic moments in my gaming life. Wanted to get into solo pvp...duels and such..can't do that for another 10-14 days after that or longer. I can't bring a knife to a gun fight. Not interested in flying a frigate as a tackler with corp. Can't afford to lose my Vexor, so can't fly it in PvP. Just feels like so many hoops to jump through in this game to do anything. Even to get free stuff! lol new Corp has a dozen steps to complete and a wiki page to get a free skill book. FFS.
Is this game too hardcore and old school for a filthy casual like me? Maybe I've been trained by other games to want/need the instant gratification? Anyway, not sure on the point of this post other than to vent and complain a little. Constructive feedback is appreciated.



A lot of other games have a sense of progression in this game you don't really get that. There is a sense of progression from the skill queue to start with but that tends to be lost as it takes longer and longer to train skills.

I spend most of my time reading about EVE and posting on the forums, whilst I play skill queue online. I estimate I'll probably be starting to play properly around the beginning of December. I find the attributes a pain as I'm stuck training core skills, ECM/ECCM type skills and navigations skills presently, leaving my gunnery and ship skills weak. Stuck because it's all about efficiency in training at the start as there are so many skills. But by December I should be in a better position to start.

I realise I'm more the exception rather than the rule as I have self imposed restrictions in place from an RP perspective and because of that it doesn't bother me that much.

I do understand your point of view though.

I have wondered what it would be like if items/ships didn't require level 5 skills, instead level 5 skills only gave that extra 2%/5%/10% etc..
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#24 - 2015-09-01 09:10:35 UTC
why from an rp perspective have you placed restrictions on yourself?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Avvy
Doomheim
#25 - 2015-09-01 09:28:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
Lan Wang wrote:
why from an rp perspective have you placed restrictions on yourself?



Well because when I created the character, I created it for a particular purpose. I already decided the type of character it was going to be.

Unfortunately there isn't really anything that fits in with the MO of the character in high-sec.

I could look possibly at exploration as long as it doesn't involve killing pirates.

I also don't want to be training non combat skills when I could be training combat skills. I see core skills as combat skills as they play a part.


Edit:

It's kind of the same way I give a character an identity when playing games like Skyrim.

Although I'm not actually playing Skyrim as I've played that to death. Even Witcher 3 I got bored with quickly as it's a good game but heavily story driven so not so good for repeatability.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#26 - 2015-09-01 09:35:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
just move out of highsec and join a nullsec corp as a scout or tackle :) a good corp and fc's will help you be a good pilot, no time like the present Cool

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Avvy
Doomheim
#27 - 2015-09-01 09:54:55 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
just move out of highsec and join a nullsec corp as a scout or tackle :) a good corp and fc's will help you be a good pilot, no time like the present Cool


As you know Curse is my intended destination how it actually works out should be interesting.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-09-01 09:55:38 UTC
Bitevni Shalina wrote:
Eve is worst PvP MMOG at the moment. No match making, long wait to get a battle and you need to pay a lot of real money to play it (or grind hours and hours) and to get enouth ISK to replace your ships + fittings. It will take so much time till you will find with whom to fight and from whom to flee. All those super pro elite PvP-iers in this forum fight only fights, where they are sure they will win. And it is usually hour till you fight proper target.

Other way around is to join FW or become a little fish in a large blob, where your whole battle is just listen to the FC and switch targets accordingly. Life of a bolt inside of an engine.

So if your target is to get fair PvP fights, get them quickly and feel, that you, you alone and your skill can decide how the fight will end - go play World of tanks, warships, war thunder etc... You get instant fights for free andwith some form of match making.

Eve is different. It is about live in a WORLD, where you build your home, get circle of friends and fun planning, waiting and finally get a single kill in entire day. You pay CCP to be part of the world, not for some pew-pew. Everything takes real time in this almost real world.



Except I get a huge rush whenever I PvP in EVE, something I never experienced in other MMOs (apart from runescape, lels) and I'm talking about highly competitive PvP such as 2k+ Arena in WoW, promotional series in LoL and other such things that "matter"

Explain this.

Art of Explosions
Bitevni Shalina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-09-01 10:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Bitevni Shalina
Tsukino Stareine wrote:



Except I get a huge rush whenever I PvP in EVE,
...
Explain this.


Eve PvP sucks not because it is not interesting. Its waiting time, that spoils it. Huge rush after almost an hour of boredrome, when you were looking for a fight (you have to find any target, than you have to pick only those targets that is weak enough so you have high chance to win etc) is 100 % logical consequence.
Sitting Bull Lakota
Poppins and Company
#30 - 2015-09-01 10:30:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Sitting Bull Lakota
No, no, and no. Watch me now as I show you how wrong you are.
Caladan Panzureborn wrote:
It feels like everything I want to do is days and weeks away and I'm just really frustrated with it (ende)

I get the frustration. The issue with this statement is that you assume that you know what you want to do without having done it. You know what you'd like to try. You don't really know what you want to do until you've gone through the buffet of playstyles and roles and gotten some experience.
Grab a mining laser and chew a rock. Kill some rats. Build something. Get into a corp. Steal from a corp. Spy for the corp that decs you. Rally your corpies and lead a frig fleet against war targets/ into low/ into null/ to your collective demise. Lose a couple of frigs in solo roams. Join FW.
Point is: SP is not expertise. You get SP by paying subscription. You get experience by undocking.
If you've got prop jamming trained to I you can be deadly in pvp. You won't be 25m SP all-related-skills-level-V Dramiel pilot deadly, but you can stop a ship from warping off while you hit it. Simple but effective, this is the foundation upon which all eve combat is built. For you sports guys/gals solid fundamentals make good players.
Don't let the desire to fly expensive ships later stop you from flying cheap ones now.
OP wrote:

I bought a Procurer with ISK earned solely from ore mining in my little venture. Can't fly it for at least another 10-14 days. Couldn't even move it from the station where I bought it to my home base. That was one of the more anti-climactic moments in my gaming life.

Again, don't let yourelf sit around waiting for your skill queue to finish. Especially if you're waiting for some more "efficient" way to isk/hr.

OP wrote:

  • Wanted to get into solo pvp...duels and such..can't do that for another 10-14 days after that or longer.
  • I can't bring a knife to a gun fight.
  • Not interested in flying a frigate as a tackler with corp.
  • Can't afford to lose my Vexor, so can't fly it in PvP.



  • Don't wait for SP. Do use what you've got and expect to learn from your losses. Just be persistant.
  • My first legit solo kill was an Imperial navy slicer with my executioner in RvB. A 3 week old could've flown my fit.
  • Most of Eve pvp is team oriented, and the tackle is at least as important as the dps. Try it before you judge it.
  • My opinion: Buy a PLEX. Well worth it early on. Gets you out of the isk grind and into the stuff that CCP advertises.


A PLEX puts a billion isk in your pocket for the price if a bit over 1 month sub fee. Yes being self sufficient is good, but early on, it is really hard to get that kind of cash. Plus, 1bil can pay for about every skill you'll need along with 50 pvp frigates plus 10 pvp cruisers (all tech 1 hulls) with a couple hundred million leftover. If you're learning solo pvp, I guarantee you your first magic number is somewhere in that pile of frigates with a second and third close behind.

There, I replied to a "Skill queue online" thread.
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2015-09-01 10:51:36 UTC
Caladan Panzureborn wrote:
For someone that doesn't mind the traditional MMORPG level grind, the skill training here is killing me. Not only do I not mind the normal MMO grind, I'm starting to miss it. It feels like everything I want to do is days and weeks away and I'm just really frustrated with it and am on the fence about continuing to sub and play this game.
I bought a Procurer with ISK earned solely from ore mining in my little venture. Can't fly it for at least another 10-14 days. Couldn't even move it from the station where I bought it to my home base. That was one of the more anti-climactic moments in my gaming life. Wanted to get into solo pvp...duels and such..can't do that for another 10-14 days after that or longer. I can't bring a knife to a gun fight. Not interested in flying a frigate as a tackler with corp. Can't afford to lose my Vexor, so can't fly it in PvP. Just feels like so many hoops to jump through in this game to do anything. Even to get free stuff! lol new Corp has a dozen steps to complete and a wiki page to get a free skill book. FFS.
Is this game too hardcore and old school for a filthy casual like me? Maybe I've been trained by other games to want/need the instant gratification? Anyway, not sure on the point of this post other than to vent and complain a little. Constructive feedback is appreciated.


Welcome to EVE where you actually have to literally grow up and learn stuff as a capsuleer. An analogy is you don't expect a one month old baby(you) to do a PHD on quantum mechanics or squat 100 kilos the moment you were born. NO you take your first baby steps and learn how to walk in EVE. We don't expect our newbros to do acrobatics at the start of the game so we give them easy things to do that is beneficial to everyone.

Also why would you use a vexor as a month old toon? Stick to the tristan and algos for drone boats of your age. They're effective as solo and fleet pvp ships in their own right if you know how to use and fit them properly.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#32 - 2015-09-01 10:59:47 UTC
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Caladan Panzureborn wrote:
For someone that doesn't mind the traditional MMORPG level grind, the skill training here is killing me. Not only do I not mind the normal MMO grind, I'm starting to miss it. It feels like everything I want to do is days and weeks away and I'm just really frustrated with it and am on the fence about continuing to sub and play this game.
I bought a Procurer with ISK earned solely from ore mining in my little venture. Can't fly it for at least another 10-14 days. Couldn't even move it from the station where I bought it to my home base. That was one of the more anti-climactic moments in my gaming life. Wanted to get into solo pvp...duels and such..can't do that for another 10-14 days after that or longer. I can't bring a knife to a gun fight. Not interested in flying a frigate as a tackler with corp. Can't afford to lose my Vexor, so can't fly it in PvP. Just feels like so many hoops to jump through in this game to do anything. Even to get free stuff! lol new Corp has a dozen steps to complete and a wiki page to get a free skill book. FFS.
Is this game too hardcore and old school for a filthy casual like me? Maybe I've been trained by other games to want/need the instant gratification? Anyway, not sure on the point of this post other than to vent and complain a little. Constructive feedback is appreciated.


Welcome to EVE where you actually have to literally grow up and learn stuff as a capsuleer. An analogy is you don't expect a one month old baby(you) to do a PHD on quantum mechanics or squat 100 kilos the moment you were born. NO you take your first baby steps and learn how to walk in EVE. We don't expect our newbros to do acrobatics at the start of the game so we give them easy things to do that is beneficial to everyone.

Also why would you use a vexor as a month old toon? Stick to the tristan and algos for drone boats of your age. They're effective as solo and fleet pvp ships in their own right if you know how to use and fit them properly.


ikr, how fun would eve be if you could complete the game and fly everything in 7 days

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Avvy
Doomheim
#33 - 2015-09-01 11:21:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
Lan Wang wrote:


ikr, how fun would eve be if you could complete the game and fly everything in 7 days


Depends, do you find waiting months to fly something, fun or is it actually using the ship that is fun part?

You can't complete EVE as it's a sandbox, although you can complete your own goals within the sandbox.



If a game is too hard people get frustrated, if a game is too easy people get bored. It has to be in the middle somewhere.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2015-09-01 11:31:27 UTC
Caladan Panzureborn wrote:
I didn't want to fly fleet tackle because it didn't sound challenging. My impression is that I would just end up being blaster fodder. Haha.

My understanding is that fleet tackle is the most important role in fleet and that they are the content creators of small and medium gang combat.

I was listening to a pod cast a while back from a somewhat famous FC, who's name escapes me now, but he was saything that tackle are your scouts. He pointed out that you need your most experienced pilots as tackle since they are often the ones deciding what the fleet is committing to, so they need to be able to spot and differentiate bait from good targets as well as be experienced enough to last until the rest of the fleet arrives.

So more experienced PvPers can correct me if I am wrong but I don't think fleet tackle is a role for a noob. That role is far too important to put on someone with little experience. I think as a new player you are probably better off sitting back with the fleet playing F1 monkey or flying some type of support ship like logi or ewar.

As far as fleet tackle not being challenging like I've pointed out it is likely the most challenging role in any fleet (if done properly) even more challenging than FCing in many cases. Also keep in mind that if you want to solo PvP you are essentially flying fleet tackle without the fleet to back you up. So it seems to me that you concept of fleet tackle might be a little misguided.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Avvy
Doomheim
#35 - 2015-09-01 11:38:28 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
So more experienced PvPers can correct me if I am wrong but I don't think fleet tackle is a role for a noob. That role is far too important to put on someone with little experience. I think as a new player you are probably better off sitting back with the fleet playing F1 monkey or flying some type of support ship like logi or ewar.


I'm under the impression that the role of a newbro is to sit off-grid with some neuts.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#36 - 2015-09-01 11:52:43 UTC
Avvy wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
So more experienced PvPers can correct me if I am wrong but I don't think fleet tackle is a role for a noob. That role is far too important to put on someone with little experience. I think as a new player you are probably better off sitting back with the fleet playing F1 monkey or flying some type of support ship like logi or ewar.


I'm under the impression that the role of a newbro is to sit off-grid with some neuts.


nah neuts are close range stuff, think you mean damps. still an also important role sitting in a maulus, tbh any role in a fleet is important, i dont know about noobs in logi, logi is still a pretty long train

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Avvy
Doomheim
#37 - 2015-09-01 12:12:30 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
think you mean damps.


Thanks, I did mean damps.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2015-09-01 12:34:20 UTC
sitting off-grid with any module is going to be a pretty boring day for you

Art of Explosions
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2015-09-01 14:28:18 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Caladan Panzureborn wrote:
I didn't want to fly fleet tackle because it didn't sound challenging. My impression is that I would just end up being blaster fodder. Haha.

My understanding is that fleet tackle is the most important role in fleet and that they are the content creators of small and medium gang combat.

I was trying to write a post like this yesterday but kept getting interrupted. Fortunately erg beat me to it and did it much better than I would have.

I strongly agree with this post. Scouting is a very important role - one that can mean the difference between a fun roam or an awful experience in patience and self-control. Your ability to quickly asses a system impacts the entire fleet's efficiency. There's nothing worse than sitting on the gate waiting for a lousy scout to warp to every asteroid belt in search of a venture because they don't know how to use dscan or what a decent target is.

This is why I have come to recommend T1 logi or Ewar as an alternative for newbros, because it still allows you to play a very important role in the fleet, but you won't naturally drag the entire fleet down due to your inexperience. Of course, you never get better at scouting unless you practice it. However, in my experience, the absolute best scouts I have met are also excellent solo pilots. The time you spend searching for targets on your own is great practice for locating targets quickly and a good solo pilot is able to do this while not getting caught out by the enemy gang.

Besides EWAR and logi are very fun roles, and very SP friendly. There's nothing quite like getting that important jam that turns a fight, or landing reps on your mate in 10% hull.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2015-09-01 14:52:00 UTC
InB4 Logi and EWAR are also too skill intensive for newbros too.

:D