These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

A Theological Defense of the Reclaiming and A Call to Arms

Author
Melku Sharvas
Daer-El Industries
#1 - 2015-08-27 04:24:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Melku Sharvas
Dear Brothers and Sisters, Believers and non-Believers:

Many of us within the fold of the True Faith have been remiss in our duty to explain, with the pen and not just the sword, our obligation to Reclaim the cluster and its various peoples. This has led (God forbid!) to the slander among those outside our Empire that we are mere slavers. It is time for a clear explanation, in terms that all the children of New Eden may understand. With a trembling heart I undertake this task, at the behest of my teacher, Archbishop Abraxas, under the auspices of the Providence Theological Institute. May God help me set out the plain truth, decorated with such parables and allegories as conduce to understanding. All truth in the following is thanks to God Almighty; all flaws and errors belong entirely to me.

The Prophet Gheinok and the Elect

Our earliest records were bequeathed to us by the Prophet Dano Gheinok, the founder of the Amarr Faith. He gathered unto himself select families and bloodlines whom he knew contained a greater spark of Divine Light than the rest of humanity. These he made the Elect, and they would eventually become the race we know as the True Amarr. This requires them to be set apart in their daily activities from the rest of us and restricted in the kinds of work they can pursue. They cannot perform too much secular work without endangering their own function in the divine plan. In a refinery, each unit operation must dedicate itself to its specific task, or else the entire process will break down. This does not, however, mean that any one operation is inherently more valuable to the process than any other: they are all necessary to achieve the end product.

The rest of us, and I as a Ni-Kunni am included in this category, have our own roles to fulfill. We are responsible for "extracting" and "transporting" the "raw materials" to the final reactor for transmutation. Some of us must work the ground and provide the food and clothes for the cluster. Some of us must handle finances and trade and manage other affairs. And so on.

The Evolution of the Soul and its Final Fate

Some souls are closer to the Light than others. But this is not intended to be a permanent. Indeed, it is the goal to purge not just the material world of Darkness, but each and every soul. Thus, by participating willingly in the process, each participating soul gradually loses Darkness and becomes refined itself, approaching the state of a True Amarr. Such individuals eventually transform sufficiently to become no longer suited for those tasks that are entirely mundane. They must, as a result, be reassigned from such work. But the necessity of performing that work remains, until the entire cosmos has achieved its purpose. There is neither shame nor guilt in this, only pride in participating in the work of redeeming the Divine Light itself. Conversely, by rebellion against the process of salvation, the soul can become progressively dirtied, taking on more Darkness than it had originally, and its indwelling Light diminished.

There are three fates that await the soul upon death of the physical body, depending on how purified it is at the time of departure:

1. Complete redemption into the Realm of Light (i.e, Heaven),
2. Remaining within the cosmos for another incarnation to continue refinement,
3. Complete annihilation (God forbid!) should it become too contaminated with Darkness and the Light within it extinguished.

The Necessity of Reclaiming

The "Reclaiming", thus, is a Reclaiming of the scattered fragments of divinity for the Realm of Light. It is ultimately impersonal in its foundation: we are primarily concerned with restitution of the Divine. However, we also care for each individual soul that contains sparks of divine Light within it. For both reasons, and to prevent the extinguishing of any sparks of Light, which is a grievous loss to all the worlds, we take the ingathering of the Light back to its source very seriously. You have an importance to God greater than your own wordly ambitions and mundane plans. Fate has given you a responsibility to the Light you carry within you. By its very nature, redeeming grants you ultimate peace and serenity, and eternal life. Extinguishing it carries the ultimate penalty. The choice is yours, but we present to you the Reclaiming as the easiest means possible for those of you who wish to nurture and free the Light within the very core essence of your being.

The Drifters: The Consummate Husks

And now we come under attack by the greatest force of Darkness that has yet been seen in the history of the cosmos: these artificially animated and lifeless corpses known as the Drifters. They act as mindless hive creatures, they are to all accounts soulless, their bodies sustained entirely by mechanical means. While we do not yet know what exactly they are, they seem the very opposite of creatures with the Divine Light in them: mute automatons, almost like a very powerful form of rogue drone. They are a threat not just to the Amarr Empire, but to ALL sentient beings in New Eden. It is telling that they have chosen to attack the State that is the professed Guardian and Redeemer of the Light: Amarr. If you are not a citizen of Amarr, know that we are now fighting on your behalf, of the divinity you are and that you carry within you. We fight and die to defend you, personally, no matter who you are, because you as a member of humankind are intrinsically sacred, whether you be True Amarr or no. You all have the divine spark within you, and it is that which the Drifters are seeking to put out. We therefore ask you again, please, join the Reclaiming of your own free will, commit yourself to Redemption, for your own sake, and stand with us against the abominable Drifters! We need each and every one of you, and you all have a place by our side in the grand scheme of salvation.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#2 - 2015-08-27 05:38:50 UTC
Quote:
Our earliest records were bequeathed to us by the Prophet Dano Gheinok, the founder of the Amarr Faith.


And you have no true evidence for anything more than 'Someone told someone else to obey because of this' from this point forward.
Melku Sharvas
Daer-El Industries
#3 - 2015-08-27 05:56:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Melku Sharvas
Behold! More biomass for the Drifters speaks!

It is not enough that you are cutting off your own right arm by burning Providence. You mock for the sake of mocking.

I have an idea for you. Why don't you take that great fleet of yours down to the Khanid Kingdom and use it to help stop the ever-spreading Drifter menace. Are you afraid of a real challenge, Goon, or do you only go for easy kills? Too weak and cowardly for a matched fight?
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2015-08-27 06:25:49 UTC
Melku Sharvas wrote:
Behold! More biomass for the Drfiters speaks!

It is not enough that you are cutting off your own right arm by burning Providence. You mock for the sake of mocking.

I have an idea for you. Why don't you take that great fleet of yours down to the Khanid Kingdom and use it to help stop the ever-spreading Drifter menace? Are you afraid of a real challenge, Goon, or do you only go for easy kills? Too weak and cowardly for a matched fight?


Are the fleets of Providence not mighty?
Is its territory not an extension of the holy empire itself, protected by god?

Or maybe Providence existed in this shape only because an area this poor in resources did not deserve any serious invasion. You know, if someone like Dex or Vaari should step forward and say, in full honesty:

"The only, sole reason the region of Providence remained, through all the wars, controlled by us as an extension of the Amarr Empire is that the region is so poor in resources most sane people don't want to live here."

We might put departure into consideration. For now, well... on with the purging.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Svetlana Laknaya
Khushakor Clan
#5 - 2015-08-27 06:44:30 UTC
If you put fancy robes on a barking, wounded dog, it doesn't make the barking any more palatable. Keep barking Amarrian, and we will keep defending our people.
Melku Sharvas
Daer-El Industries
#6 - 2015-08-27 06:45:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Melku Sharvas
Trii Seo wrote:
? Are you afraid of a real challenge, Goon, or do you only go for easy kills? Too weak and cowardly for a matched fight?

Are the fleets of Providence not mighty?
Is its territory not an extension of the holy empire itself, protected by god?

Or maybe Providence existed in this shape only because an area this poor in resources did not deserve any serious invasion. You know, if someone like Dex or Vaari should step forward and say, in full honesty:

"The only, sole reason the region of Providence remained, through all the wars, controlled by us as an extension of the Amarr Empire is that the region is so poor in resources most sane people don't want to live here."

We might put departure into consideration. For now, well... on with the purging.


I fail to see your point. Speak sense, Goon. I know it is difficult, as most of you have no formal education, but nonetheless try. Do you have something against the development of star systems, the creation of a productive oasis despite the hardships of poor resources? Does this offend you? Why bring it up?

Are not the fleets of the GoonVermin mightier still? Is this a pissing contest? It is for you, I'm sure. I'm not interested in comparing bladder volume with you. Find some other playmates for your sick little games.

All your words appear to me to be a pathetic rationalization you tell your guilty conscience: that you are a weak, sniveling, opportunistic coward who is stabbing her own species in the back just because she can, and who is deathly afraid of a fight in which the outcome is not so certain. There is only one suitable place for you and your like: the deepest, darkest mines, fitted with glaive collars and equipped with only primitive picks for your work.

Let everyone behold: YOU are the reason for the Reclaiming. You stand as the most eminent justification for it, more eloquent and convincing than a thousand speeches.
Melku Sharvas
Daer-El Industries
#7 - 2015-08-27 06:52:01 UTC
Svetlana Laknaya wrote:
If you put fancy robes on a barking, wounded dog, it doesn't make the barking any more palatable. Keep barking Amarrian, and we will keep defending our people.


I care not for how palatable my "barking" is to you, primitive. If you prefer dirt and mud to civilization, that is certainly your prerogative. I care only about reaching those who have ears to hear, who may not have had an opportunity to hear before.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#8 - 2015-08-27 06:57:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Melku Sharvas wrote:
Behold! More biomass for the Drifters speaks!

It is not enough that you are cutting off your own right arm by burning Providence. You mock for the sake of mocking.

I have an idea for you. Why don't you take that great fleet of yours down to the Khanid Kingdom and use it to help stop the ever-spreading Drifter menace. Are you afraid of a real challenge, Goon, or do you only go for easy kills? Too weak and cowardly for a matched fight?


Don't think I haven't considered it. Our incursion specialists are already working on plans for these new opportunities.

But no, I'm afraid you're wrong. I'm not mocking for the sake of mocking. I'm making a point: You enslave entire worlds, you steal entire peoples' destinies from them, and you do it based on a claim for which you have no evidence. You have nothing, except that someone who benefits from the faifhful told you to believe this.

And now, you need to believe it, or you're afraid that everything you've done has been hollow, meaningless, a lie. It's not. Your works have value on their own, your devotion has value all of its own. Even without the utterly baseless assertions the True Amarr have fed you and your people for so long that now you raise your children to believe themselves inferior.

To hate themselves for the crime of your genetics.

Mockery? No, sir. I would not mock a victim so.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2015-08-27 07:18:37 UTC
Melku Sharvas wrote:

I fail to see your point. Speak sense, Goon. I know it is difficult, as most of you have no formal education, but nonetheless try. Do you have something against the development of star systems, the creation of a productive oasis despite the hardships of poor resources? Does this offend you? Why bring it up?

Are not the fleets of the GoonVermin mightier still? Is this a pissing contest? It is for you, I'm sure. I'm not interested in comparing bladder volume with you. Find some other playmates for your sick little games.

All your words appear to me to be a pathetic rationalization you tell your guilty conscience: that you are a weak, sniveling, opportunistic coward who is stabbing her own species in the back just because she can, and who is deathly afraid of a fight in which the outcome is not so certain. There is only one suitable place for you and your like: the deepest, darkest mines, fitted with glaive collars and equipped with only primitive picks for your work.

Let everyone behold: YOU are the reason for the Reclaiming. You stand as the most eminent justification for it, more eloquent and convincing than a thousand speeches.


You know, an educated person would be able to spot a difference between a Bee and an Otter. I'm no Goon, and your liberal use of ad hominem will not change anything about the torching - or my good mood for that matter.

By the way, so you're essentially saying, "No, please, no more, please stop hitting me"? Because that might be what I'm seeing.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Melku Sharvas
Daer-El Industries
#10 - 2015-08-27 07:25:55 UTC
Arrendis wrote:


Don't think I haven't considered it. Our incursion specialists are already working on plans for these new opportunities.

But no, I'm afraid you're wrong. I'm not mocking for the sake of mocking. I'm making a point: You enslave entire worlds, you steal entire peoples' destinies from them, and you do it based on a claim for which you have no evidence. You have nothing, except that someone who benefits from the faifhful told you to believe this.

And now, you need to believe it, or you're afraid that everything you've done has been hollow, meaningless, a lie. It's not. Your works have value on their own, your devotion has value all of its own. Even without the utterly baseless assertions the True Amarr have fed you and your people for so long that now you raise your children to believe themselves inferior.

To hate themselves for the crime of your genetics.

Mockery? No, sir. I would not mock a victim so.


We do not raise our children to believe themselves inferior. We do not understand "inferior" as you do. We accept the truth that all people, including True Amarr, are born with strengths and weaknesses, limitations and opportunities. Do you think rulership is a privilege? No, it is a tremendous burden, one I would never wish on anyone. To be forbidden by Faith to lay it down and live an unassuming life of little responsibility is a kind of slavery unto itself. In this sense the True Amarr are as limited as anyone else, just in a different, and I daresay more unpleasant way. We do not see it as a competition. You misunderstand us, at least in that point. On the point that our works and devotion have value all of its own, there you understand us completely, and I salute you.

Good luck with your purging. I am not afraid of it in the least. May you achieve your goals. See you in Khanid when you are ready.
Melku Sharvas
Daer-El Industries
#11 - 2015-08-27 07:33:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Melku Sharvas
Trii Seo wrote:


You know, an educated person would be able to spot a difference between a Bee and an Otter. I'm no Goon, and your liberal use of ad hominem will not change anything about the torching - or my good mood for that matter.


Eventually all excrement, no matter what species it is from, begins to look and smell the same. I am not trying to change your plans; Point Genesis will sooner reopen a path directly to heaven before that happens, and I'm not much for exercises in futility.

Trii Seo wrote:


By the way, so you're essentially saying, "No, please, no more, please stop hitting me"? Because that might be what I'm seeing.



No. I will say the same thing to you as I said to Arrendis: Good luck with your goals. See you in Khanid when you're ready.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#12 - 2015-08-27 07:37:38 UTC
Melku Sharvas wrote:
We do not raise our children to believe themselves inferior. We do not understand "inferior" as you do. We accept the truth that all people, including True Amarr, are born with strengths and weaknesses, limitations and opportunities. Do you think rulership is a privilege? No, it is a tremendous burden, one I would never wish on anyone. To be forbidden by Faith to lay it down and live an unassuming life of little responsibility is a kind of slavery unto itself. In this sense the True Amarr are as limited as anyone else, just in a different, and I daresay more unpleasant way. We do not see it as a competition.


And again, I point out: what you claim as 'truth' is a package of assertions crafted to keep you in your place, and handed to you by the people who would have your service.

If, as the Amarr claim, the Reclamation of the Fallen was truly the ultimate agenda of the Empire, then it would be the Fallen whose needs are prioritized, whose lives are extended - for it is they who are in danger of damnation if they are allowed to die before they can be shown the truth.

Instead, the Amarr live in quite literally golden palaces, with their wants and needs seen to, while the 'lesser' peoples must make do with ever more modest estate, until those in the greatest need of aid are the ones for whom the least is provided.
Melku Sharvas
Daer-El Industries
#13 - 2015-08-27 07:53:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Melku Sharvas
Arrendis wrote:


And again, I point out: what you claim as 'truth' is a package of assertions crafted to keep you in your place, and handed to you by the people who would have your service.



Where is your evidence? What do you have to put in place of the oldest record of humanity? How do you refute the technological marvels that were predicted in the most ancient scriptures and were found to be accurate and true only millenia later? Your heart is hardened and you do not care for our religion no matter how much evidence might be adduced in its favor. Do not pretend to desire an honest debate about this.

Arrendis wrote:

If, as the Amarr claim, the Reclamation of the Fallen was truly the ultimate agenda of the Empire, then it would be the Fallen whose needs are prioritized, whose lives are extended - for it is they who are in danger of damnation if they are allowed to die before they can be shown the truth.

Instead, the Amarr live in quite literally golden palaces, with their wants and needs seen to, while the 'lesser' peoples must make do with ever more modest estate, until those in the greatest need of aid are the ones for whom the least is provided.


I presume you speak from personal experience. Mine has been quite the opposite. I quite literally live in a golden palace and yet have no responsibility for its preservation. I prefer to be a tenant rather than a home-owner: I simply pay a small monthly rent and the headache of management and maintenance is entirely someone else's responsibility. In the meantime, I get to enjoy all the amenities. I have never lacked in the fulfillment of my wants or needs. Your propaganda describes something so alien to my own experience I can hardly recognize it.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#14 - 2015-08-27 07:58:33 UTC
Melku Sharvas wrote:
Where is your evidence? What do you have to put in place of the oldest record of humanity? How do you refute the technological marvels that were predicted in the most ancient scriptures and were found to be accurate and true only millenia later? Your heart is hardened and you do not care for our religion no matter how much evidence might be adduced in its favor. Do not pretend to desire an honest debate about this.


Where is my evidence for what? For pointing out that you have no evidence for the existence of God? You're making the initial claim. I'm only pointing out that it's unsupported.

Show me one single piece of data that requires the existence of God.


Quote:

I presume you speak from personal experience. Mine has been quite the opposite. I quite literally live in a golden palace and yet have no responsibility for its preservation. I prefer to be a tenant rather than a home-owner: I simply pay a small monthly rent and the headache of management and maintenance is entirely someone else's responsibility. In the meantime, I get to enjoy all the amenities. I have never lacked in the fulfillment of my wants or needs. Your propaganda describes something so alien to my own experience I can hardly recognize it.


Sounds like your experience lines up pretty much exactly with what I described. Not as well off as those who would have you obey them, but vastly better off than the majority of the slaves whose Reclamation is supposedly the foremost duty of the Amarr.

Theirs. Not yours. You've already been saved.
Skyweir Kinnison
Doomheim
#15 - 2015-08-27 08:49:10 UTC
Oh dear.

It took just one reasoned comment to turn this 'teacher' into a snarling beast of contempt and venom.

You might want to turn that mighty contempt onto the reflection that your religion may be freely preached (but not coerced at the end of a whip) in the Federation, and yet has made astonishingly little progress among people free to choose.

Why do you think that is?

Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-08-27 09:59:16 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Quote:
Our earliest records were bequeathed to us by the Prophet Dano Gheinok, the founder of the Amarr Faith.


And you have no true evidence for anything more than 'Someone told someone else to obey because of this' from this point forward.


I read that bit as 'Some guy decided he was right and everyone else was wrong, he gathered his friends and told them they were Special so could do whatever they liked...'
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-08-27 10:00:33 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
...

Mockery? No, sir. I would not mock a victim so.


Besides...it's wrong to mock the afflicted...
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-08-27 14:52:38 UTC
You know, I was actually this close to expressing outright sympathy for CVA.

Congratulations, Sharvas. You've put paid to that dangerous possibility.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#19 - 2015-08-27 15:56:24 UTC
This is why the Amarr can't have nice things...... Like an Emperess.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.

Rook Moray
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-08-27 16:11:30 UTC
Je suis Amarr?

Non.

The cool thing about being in a spacefaring society is that you can pick up and move anywhere, anytime.

This isn't a "fight for humanity."

This is a fight to maintain your status quo.

By the by, if you're going to go around cap in hand asking for help, you might want to tone down the "reclamation" bit. It tends to put people off.

“When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.” -Guristas Proverb.