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Fuel blocks! (and CCP Soundwaves wildlife safety advice)

First post First post
Author
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#341 - 2011-12-13 14:17:51 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Hi everyone,

As you can see from this news item here, we got the TEMPORARY fuel bay size boost through all the relevant hoops and it's going out in the patch tomorrow.

This means that, until the 24th, your fuel bay sizes will be doubled, which should allow you to compensate for the unfortunate postponement of the fuel block switchover by just dumping another month's worth of fuel into your bay, without having to take out any blocks that you've already added.

We are at this time planning to revert these changes and reduce bay sizes back to their current (ie, post-Crucible-boost, pre-tomorrow-boost) sizes on the 24th. We appreciate that leaving them at their larger size would be well-received, but we're also aware that making substantial changes to logistics can have unforeseen consequences. We'd prefer not to significantly alter starbase logistics over the long term without having a better think about the situation.

Thanks for your time, and our apologies once again for the inconvenience this has caused.
-Greyscale


Really cool.


What happens to an overfull fuel bay?

EDIT:
nvm, need to learn o read news post

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#342 - 2011-12-13 14:53:13 UTC
As I understand the news post, says overfueled bay post 24th just can't accept more fuel until it has been chomped down by the tower so it is under the cap. A logical way to do it and a good change.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#343 - 2011-12-13 15:02:36 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

As you can see from this news item here, we got the TEMPORARY fuel bay size boost through all the relevant hoops and it's going out in the patch tomorrow.

Domo Arigato Greyscale-san.

May you keep your job for at least the next 18 months ;)

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#344 - 2011-12-13 15:02:57 UTC
The problem is that it doesn't address the real issue, the fact that this delay is brutalizing high sec POS operations with the staggering increase to cost until this patch come out.
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#345 - 2011-12-13 15:12:46 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
The problem is that it doesn't address the real issue, the fact that this delay is brutalizing high sec POS operations with the staggering increase to cost until this patch come out.

Highsec? If you are in highsec, just sell your fuel cubes on the market. They are going at 15-20% profit over material cost. Or reprocess them into normal fuel. You have all the options available to you, stop complaining.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644

Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#346 - 2011-12-13 15:18:45 UTC
Jack Dant wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
The problem is that it doesn't address the real issue, the fact that this delay is brutalizing high sec POS operations with the staggering increase to cost until this patch come out.

Highsec? If you are in highsec, just sell your fuel cubes on the market. They are going at 15-20% profit over material cost. Or reprocess them into normal fuel. You have all the options available to you, stop complaining.


No, can't you understand the highsec carebear logic?

"I own fuel cubes. I need fuel cubes to run my POS in the future. Since I own the cubes, they are free. I can't do anything with them, they must go to a POS. Oh, now I need another month of POS fuel but I'm low on iskies. Damn, I'm hosed".

(when the answer is, as you point out, "sell cubes, buy fuel (or reprocess cubes to get most of the materials out), keep running POS. Buy more fuel and manufacture it into cubes sometime in January")
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#347 - 2011-12-13 15:50:25 UTC
Melting Fuel Cubes sounds like a logical conclusion - HOWEVER... 1 week of fuel cube material is less than one week of material at current numbers. So yes, you still need to buy and transport the difference.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite

Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#348 - 2011-12-13 16:07:41 UTC
Reverting the change after Jan 24th is good. I don't want any players in the game that keep their towers online for months even when they are not active. If you are inactive for weeks in a row, don't operate a POS.

.

Flamehaired Death
Doomheim
#349 - 2011-12-13 16:52:50 UTC
Good call on the temporary double fuel bay size. Too bad that didn't come out with the late announcement of the delay.

I will say the decision to delay was drawn out far longer than I expected. As many pointed out, waiting until 3-4 days before original meant that almost anyone who could meet the deadline had already gone through most the pain. And I can see that even some who might have fallen 1 POS short of being done might have preferred it shields down for a few hours to an extended hectic refuel schedule. Once the blocks were in, it looked like Xmas was hit anyway to refuel old fuel -- negating the point of a delay.

After the fact, it looks like most of the important people who talk in forums were ready to go 24 hours after BPO release. If you were not ready ...you make a conclusion as to what the "ready to go" people thought. I suspect a few people were also quite angry because they expected to make a windfall profit off those who were not going to be ready on their own. That market is now all but gone.

However, once BPOs were released I can't say PE and ME research times were ever a consideration. Heh Noctis type BPO price and limited numbers were possible before that time. Actual BPO Prices were lower than they could have been and numbers quite plentiful. So if you can afford to own and fuel a POS - the cost of a second BPO to go into research while using a wasteful unresearched BPO was no challenge. And 10% waste on 1/2 month fuel would not break many POS owning corps either.


Flamehaired Death
Doomheim
#350 - 2011-12-13 17:02:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Flamehaired Death
Oh and I admit that several small corps I know had it a lot easier than big corps with overextended POS. They are apparently using a mostly offlined corp hangar to store fuel blocks and extra fuel. So they were less worried about many trips to directly load 50/50 POS fuel bays than finding people to produce and haul the initial stock of fuel blocks to their POS.

But double sized fuel bays ought to cover any corp that is not going to fail to meet POS needs soon anyway regardless of fuel type changes. Well double doesn't issues in corps over possible confusion in the ranks about what to haul and load - but that is a relatively minor issue that should become obvious to anyone allowed to load fuel bays even if not clearly ordered.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#351 - 2011-12-13 17:04:12 UTC
Quote:
Please note that these changes will be reverted when fuel block consumption is enabled on January 24. Towers left with their fuel bays in an "overloaded" state as a result of this change should continue to function as normal.



Um... should? Shocked SHOULD?!

Why does that word not give me a warm and fuzzy... Ugh

I'm sure they're testing the crap out of this and it'll be fine... right guys?

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Flamehaired Death
Doomheim
#352 - 2011-12-13 17:07:44 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Quote:
Please note that these changes will be reverted when fuel block consumption is enabled on January 24. Towers left with their fuel bays in an "overloaded" state as a result of this change should continue to function as normal.



Um... should? Shocked SHOULD?!

Why does that word not give me a warm and fuzzy... Ugh

I'm sure they're testing the crap out of this and it'll be fine... right guys?



LOL well double bay sizes will help with that a lot -- just keep normal fuel to full level until block actually work.
Flamehaired Death
Doomheim
#353 - 2011-12-13 17:27:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Flamehaired Death
Two BIG questions about double fuel bay sizes.

First can we wait until its confirmed that all POS are eating their fuel blocks correctly before turning that off? Day or two after.

Second what happens when double size is turned off?

I am just thinking that old fuel will be in bays until everyone sees fuel blocks are working. And many of us will be tempted to have a full load of fuel blocks onboard. In total more than a full normal fuel bay can hold.

Most of us do not want stuff lost or jetcanned when you turn off double size -- especially randomly or last placed inside.
Nor do we want to worry about old fuel getting stuck nor fuel blocks in excess volume becoming inaccessible for POS consumption.

Ideally the "reduced to normal" fuel bay only balks at adding anything more until volume excess is removed. Hopefully every other fuel bay operation continues as normal until everyone is able to unload old fuel to reach normal fuel bay volumes.
Aluminy
Stargazer Exploration Company
#354 - 2011-12-13 17:47:40 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:

Update from CCP Greyscale:

We got the TEMPORARY fuel bay size boost through all the relevant hoops and it's going out in the patch tomorrow.


does absolutely nothing for the HUGE mess made with MASSIVE HAULING of fuels to "out of way" places (nullsec / wh spaces) -

i'm sure there will be some flame down the road bout how someone was ill prepared etc... while not all our fuel blocks where converted - it was stated a projected date... and for it to go 30+ days past is still a massive **** up on ccps part making the player have to work harder, any way you slice it~

Christmas dinner? pft... will be in a damn providence or an ark for Christmas, thanks for that btw

still a giant F / U to ccp~ but hey... they had to try something yes?
Flamehaired Death
Doomheim
#355 - 2011-12-13 17:49:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Flamehaired Death
Flamehaired Death wrote:
Two BIG questions about double fuel bay sizes.

First can we wait until its confirmed that all POS are eating their fuel blocks correctly before turning that off? Day or two after.

Second what happens when double size is turned off?

I am just thinking that old fuel will be in bays until everyone sees fuel blocks are working. And many of us will be tempted to have a full load of fuel blocks onboard. In total more than a full normal fuel bay can hold.

Most of us do not want stuff lost or jetcanned when you turn off double size -- especially randomly or last placed inside.
Nor do we want to worry about old fuel getting stuck nor fuel blocks in excess volume becoming inaccessible for POS consumption.

Ideally the "reduced to normal" fuel bay only balks at adding anything more until volume excess is removed. Hopefully every other fuel bay operation continues as normal until everyone is able to unload old fuel to reach normal fuel bay volumes.




If there might be issues with excess volume in fuel bays when double size is turned off -- CCP might want post a warning. Ideally posted a week ahead of turn off time.

I can understand temporary code might not be perfected.

And if double size goes off at same time as switch to fuel blocks...you might want to repeat your 50/50 advice for that normal volume in case there are fuel block issues.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#356 - 2011-12-13 17:56:48 UTC
Flamehaired Death wrote:
Two BIG questions about double fuel bay sizes.

First can we wait until its confirmed that all POS are eating their fuel blocks correctly before turning that off? Day or two after.

Second what happens when double size is turned off?

I am just thinking that old fuel will be in bays until everyone sees fuel blocks are working. And many of us will be tempted to have a full load of fuel blocks onboard. In total more than a full normal fuel bay can hold.

Most of us do not want stuff lost or jetcanned when you turn off double size -- especially randomly or last placed inside.
Nor do we want to worry about old fuel getting stuck nor fuel blocks in excess volume becoming inaccessible for POS consumption.

Ideally the "reduced to normal" fuel bay only balks at adding anything more until volume excess is removed. Hopefully every other fuel bay operation continues as normal until everyone is able to unload old fuel to reach normal fuel bay volumes.


I tested it on Friday by filling a test starbase to capacity, halving the fuel bay size, and restarting the test server. This left it in a state where there was twice as much fuel in the bay as should be possible to add. It kept consuming fuel without any problems, it just didn't let me add any more stuff (on account of being full+).
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#357 - 2011-12-13 18:01:06 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Flamehaired Death wrote:
Two BIG questions about double fuel bay sizes.

First can we wait until its confirmed that all POS are eating their fuel blocks correctly before turning that off? Day or two after.

Second what happens when double size is turned off?

I am just thinking that old fuel will be in bays until everyone sees fuel blocks are working. And many of us will be tempted to have a full load of fuel blocks onboard. In total more than a full normal fuel bay can hold.

Most of us do not want stuff lost or jetcanned when you turn off double size -- especially randomly or last placed inside.
Nor do we want to worry about old fuel getting stuck nor fuel blocks in excess volume becoming inaccessible for POS consumption.

Ideally the "reduced to normal" fuel bay only balks at adding anything more until volume excess is removed. Hopefully every other fuel bay operation continues as normal until everyone is able to unload old fuel to reach normal fuel bay volumes.


I tested it on Friday by filling a test starbase to capacity, halving the fuel bay size, and restarting the test server. This left it in a state where there was twice as much fuel in the bay as should be possible to add. It kept consuming fuel without any problems, it just didn't let me add any more stuff (on account of being full+).


Could fuel be removed in this over filled state?

Thanks for spending the time and doing what you could to help us pos users out.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#358 - 2011-12-13 18:04:35 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Greyscale
Salpun wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Flamehaired Death wrote:
Two BIG questions about double fuel bay sizes.

First can we wait until its confirmed that all POS are eating their fuel blocks correctly before turning that off? Day or two after.

Second what happens when double size is turned off?

I am just thinking that old fuel will be in bays until everyone sees fuel blocks are working. And many of us will be tempted to have a full load of fuel blocks onboard. In total more than a full normal fuel bay can hold.

Most of us do not want stuff lost or jetcanned when you turn off double size -- especially randomly or last placed inside.
Nor do we want to worry about old fuel getting stuck nor fuel blocks in excess volume becoming inaccessible for POS consumption.

Ideally the "reduced to normal" fuel bay only balks at adding anything more until volume excess is removed. Hopefully every other fuel bay operation continues as normal until everyone is able to unload old fuel to reach normal fuel bay volumes.


I tested it on Friday by filling a test starbase to capacity, halving the fuel bay size, and restarting the test server. This left it in a state where there was twice as much fuel in the bay as should be possible to add. It kept consuming fuel without any problems, it just didn't let me add any more stuff (on account of being full+).


Could fuel be removed in this over filled state?

Thanks for spending the time and doing what you could to help us pos users out.


Let me check, I think I still have it set up.

[edit] Tower's still running (has some LOz and HW in it too because I've had this tower for years), and I can take blocks out fine, just can't put them back in again.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#359 - 2011-12-13 18:24:37 UTC
Its more an issue of taking the other pos fuel components out that are no longer required. While pos users are going to top off the double hanger before down time on the 24th if possible to get the added run time, those that are short on isk will want to use the fuel in the bay as soon as possible to make blocks. Thanks again for a workable solution.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Gheent
Starshadow Corporation
#360 - 2011-12-13 19:03:57 UTC
Anne Lou wrote:
Hello dear Santa!
Sorry for bothering you while you must be really busy preparing a bunch of Christmas presents for all those kids around the world. I really have to do this as the elf responsible for packing and sending presents seems to have totally lost his marbles. I really think you should take away all his candies, or maybe even put him on spike - you decide yourself please, and DON'T be gentle. You see, the point is like that:
When I was 5, instead of a talking doll I got a microscope and a fare inspector's kit. WTF? First of all, how are those related? Yeah, I had a lot of profit selling tickets to the WC, but still?
At 6, I received a Scrabble game. Man, have you tried it yourself?
At 7, it was a clockwork pigeon. Yeah, with a windup in his ass. He flew out of the window and is still flying somewhere.
At 8, it was a cymbalo. Thanks, that was fun, but after 80th "Jingle Bells" in a row my parents got a real bad head, ear, and some other aches, and my grandmother shouting "JERONIMO!!!" sent my cymbalo flying after the clockwork pigeon. Man, I want it back!
9. Come on, do you really think that another microscope and a doctor's set are better than a Barby?
10. A sewing machine? Really? Even a DIY birdhouse would be better.
11. DIY birdhouse. Perfect. I liked the joke, but I'm still missing my cymbalo.
12. Oh, a talking doll! Well, that was fast, thank you. At that pace maybe at 70 I'll get a box of Durex.
13. A magician's set. Man, the only magic that happened was that the kit went after the pigeon and the cymbalo, and as a gesture of consolation I was allowed to spend the night out.
14. I wanted a skateboard. But what I got? Some ****** mackinaw coat! What should I do with it?
15. I wanted Julian to love me not that ***** Cindy. But in a last year's mackinaw coat?
16. A talking Barbie. With a pager. Oh yeah, when I'll start talking to a doll, it'll really need the pager, so that it doesn't get lost.
17. A cell phone charged with a 100 bucks. Given by an aging boyfriend, only to always know in what exactly point in Universe I am at the moment, and to be sure that Universe is not in me.
18. Orange underwear. Looks like it was made back in 1950s. Given keeping in mind almost the same idea as the cell phone. The Universe loses it's sexual power, the boyfriend is happy, I'm in a brown study.
19. Oh, a laptop and the Diablo anthology! Three months in a row I'm wearing the orange underwear, occasionally talking to Barbie, and exterminating the monsters all nights long. Boyfriend is knocked out, Universe is no more.
20. I want IT. But not of raccoon. But I get Diablo II and an advice to relax.
21. I want IT. But not of otter. What do I get? Another patch, a new mouse, and a Playstation. I'm really pissed of, and finally single again. However, together with the patch, and the lack of IT, the long-awaited freedom loses all it's attractiveness.
22. I want IT. And a new boyfriend. Not a jerk. But I get a marriage, two dogs, and a **** shovel. Only the orange underwear and Diablo stop me from suicide.
23. You bearded s**t-face, you've been spoofed! Instead of IT I get 20 pounds and morning sickness. Even the laptop is not able to compensate for that. Seems like it's reproduction time.
24. Oh go to hell, give me some sleep.
25. Wait a minute.

Now listen, you ****** guiser! Shove your ice staff into your hole, strain your brain and keep in mind that I already had my birdhouse and microscope. I don't want any talking dolls, I still sometimes talk to the last one you gave me. An if you, old stinkpot, have any bright ideas to give me something really useful and smart - you'd better make these thoughts go after my pigeon an cymbalo, cause you know air fares are really cheap these days, and it's not all that far to get all the way to your Lapland or where is it that you live. Believe me, having a fake beard torn off your face and stuffed up your hole is not that nice and pleasant.

I want IT. Yes, a fur coat. And only a mink one. No fakes, no excuses, nothing. Otherwise I'm coming after you, do you hear me? I have a really, really good idea how exactly I will massacre you. But, we'll discuss that when the Christmas comes.

PS And don't tell me I didn't warn you. I did.
PPS Now dear CCP. First of all, thank you very much for reading all of this. Now you must have a pretty good understanding of how I feel, knowing that all of those long hours I spent at first flying all the way from my tidy wormhole to some forgotten station in losec after those fuelblock BPO's, researching them for several days, and manufacturing a 3-months worth of fuel into fuel blocks, only to find out it was all pointless and there is 1.5 months more to do it, and moreover, now I must again fly back to the empire to buy fuel for all that time! Who the hell do you think you are? If you said 2 weeks after BPO seeding - now please go and make a patch so that my tower starts eating fuel blocks, and turn off the regular fuel consuming whenever you wish it to happen.
PPPS Santa, please look after them, okay? Or at least bring me all their presents if they won't be nice and do the patch.


This has to be the best post I've ever read on any internet forum in 15 years, ever.