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The Declaration against Death

Author
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#1 - 2015-08-26 02:27:27 UTC
Even if the stars should die in heaven
Our sins can never be undone
No single death will be forgiven
When fades at last the last lit sun.
Then in the cold and silent black
As light and matter end
We'll have ourselves a last look back
And toast an absent friend.


I'm not fond of death that should be rather immediately apparent, even some of my most visible tattoos shout my defiance of death to all who can read them. I also think death is something that can be annihilated from the face of the universe. Its not an insurmountable wall, and some day, we'll get over it. That isn't to say it will be easy, death is an extremely difficult technical problem, to be attacked with biotech and nanotech and other technological means. I do not tell a tale of the land called Future, nor state as a fact that humanity will someday be free of death - I have no magical ability to see through time. But death is a great evil, and I will oppose it whenever I can. I've managed at the very least to carve out Origin as a bastion against Death, and in this one small place, we are able to see the flickers of a dawn brighter then we can imagine. I don't think humanity will always be stuck in the awkward stage we now occupy, when we are smart enough to create enormous problems for ourselves, but not quite smart enough to solve them. I think that humanity's problems are solvable; difficult, but solvable.

When I was a teenager, immortality seemed barely out of reach. Even as a street kid in Skarkon, I basically planned on living forever. I had no idea how this would happen, but the technology was there, I just couldn't afford it. So I liked to say things like "I have two living parents and five living siblings, and I'll have two living parents and five living siblings when the last star burns down to a cinder."

And then my fiancé, Aidan Asgath, died.

He died on October 19th, YC109. I watched the light leave his eyes.

And, I still have two living parents and five living siblings, but I don't really say that specific phrase anymore. Even if we make it to and through the Singularity, it will be too late. One of the people I love won't be there. The universe has a surprising ability to stab you through the heart from somewhere you weren't looking. Of all the people I had to protect, I never thought that Aidan might be one of them. Aidan was born December 10, YC88. He was nineteen years old when he died.

Clan tradition provides a number of condolences and rituals to make death easier to bear. "Aidan has passed on" and "Aidan is in a better place now." Or "He's still around as a spirit, watching you" that one's always popular. I never was able to find much comfort in the rituals, though I weathered them better then Aidan's parent's did. I think we know, deep down, that those statements are lies trying to comfort us, but I don't particularly want to be comforted.

Maybe it helps to believe in an immortal soul. I know that I would feel a lot better if Aidan had gone away on a trip somewhere, even if he was never coming back. But Aidan did not "pass on," he is not "with the spirts." Aidan is not coming back. Aidan doesn't exist any more. Aidan was absolutely annihilated at the age of nineteen. Yes, that makes me angry. I can't put into words how angry.

Aidan's death is the first time I ever lost someone close enough for it to hurt. However, it allowed me to see the face of the enemy. Now I understand, a little better, the price of half a second. I don't understand it well, because the human brain has a pattern built into it. We do not grieve forever, but move on. We mourn for a few days and then continue with our lives. Such underreaction poorly equips us to comprehend Aidan's death. Nineteen years, 7248 days, of life and memory annihilated. A thousand years, or a million millennia, or a forever, of future life lost.

Lives are snuffed out constantly, every second of every day, but finally we're on the verge of being able to do something about it. Cloning technology is the obvious candidate, and through the introduction of the Slingshot Cloning System We hope to spread our cure for death as far as we can. There are however, many other avenues to explore, and we can't explore them all on our own. We as capsuleers have all the tools and resources needed, and maybe, just maybe, ours can be the generation that ends death.

To that end, I have created this pledge. Any individual, corporation, or alliance may sign it, and their names will be added to the main list to be contained in the next post. The only qualification to appear on the list is a personal commitment to oppose death, and a zero mortality rate among all employees working for you.

Let our commitments be made publicly, so we keep each other to them. May they be made loudly, fiercely, full of righteous fury at the injustice of the universe. Let us join together, and together we can be the generation to end death.
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#2 - 2015-08-26 02:27:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Saede Riordan
Declaration Signatories

Individuals
Solu Terona
Deitra Vess
Pieter Tuulinen

Corporations
Alexylva Paradox

Alliances
Drake Ashigaru
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#3 - 2015-08-26 04:00:31 UTC
I worry about you, Saede.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#4 - 2015-08-26 04:06:47 UTC
Death comes to all eventually, it's part of the human experience. There is no escape.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2015-08-26 04:08:40 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Death comes to all eventually, it's part of the human experience. There is no escape.


But we are cheating death regularly?

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#6 - 2015-08-26 04:16:11 UTC
Cloning is not a cure for death.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#7 - 2015-08-26 04:18:15 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Death comes to all eventually, it's part of the human experience. There is no escape.


But we are cheating death regularly?

Depends on just how your philosophy on the matter runs. One could say we die all the time we just have back-ups, so there may be multiple copies of you when you reach the afterlife.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.

Solu Terona
Alexylva Paradox
#8 - 2015-08-26 05:07:24 UTC
So signed, that we may stand against the Reaper.

Humans must eventually break out from the limits of biology, its not radical to accept the inevitable.

Arrendis
TK Corp
#9 - 2015-08-26 05:21:42 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
there may be multiple copies of you when you reach the afterlife.


Or there may only be the you that died when you first got your implants, and everything else you've done, everyone else you've known, is nothing...
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#10 - 2015-08-26 05:24:49 UTC
Signed.
Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#11 - 2015-08-26 05:49:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Neph
I embrace death, my own death, at least. Might seem odd that I say that, having willingly become a capsuleer, but nonetheless I await the day when I will shut my eyes for the last time.

Life is beautiful and amazing because it stands in such stark contrast with the dark. Look at how jaded so many capsuleers are. Ever wonder why so many people doubt we are human? We've forgotten death, so we throw away life. I find soft comfort in the knowledge that every person will eventually die. It binds us together, it makes us people, it keeps us humble.

Maybe a rare one glows bright enough to be seen on its on, but we are all just sparks, most too short-lived and dim to be seen individually. Together, we are a roaring fire, beautiful even for our horrible flaws, burning resolutely against the dark. What will that mean when it's all light outside?

Defeat death and we lose life.

~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~

"Orte Jaitovalte sitasuyti ne obuetsa useuut ishu. Ketsiak ishiulyn." -Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2015-08-26 06:37:21 UTC
Neph wrote:
I embrace death, my own death, at least. Might seem odd that I say that, having willingly become a capsuleer, but nonetheless I await the day when I will shut my eyes for the last time.

Life is beautiful and amazing because it stands in such stark contrast with the dark. Look at how jaded so many capsuleers are. Ever wonder why so many people doubt we are human? We've forgotten death, so we throw away life. I find soft comfort in the knowledge that every person will eventually die. It binds us together, it makes us people, it keeps us humble.

Maybe a rare one glows bright enough to be seen on its on, but we are all just sparks, most too short-lived and dim to be seen individually. Together, we are a roaring fire, beautiful even for our horrible flaws, burning resolutely against the dark. What will that mean when it's all light outside?

Defeat death and we lose life.


That, or we still haven't yet figured out the meaning of being undead.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#13 - 2015-08-26 08:33:18 UTC
Death has a purpose, even from the basic singular cell organisms, it's nature's way of balancing things out.

Not to mention it brings a certain dynamic to life - if everything would just stay in a constant state of invincibility and immortality, things would get rather dull rather quickly.

I won't drivel on with these basic biological or philosophical concepts however, but merely suggest you should perhaps invest into improving the lives of those already alive instead.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#14 - 2015-08-26 15:18:30 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Cloning is not a cure for death.


I disagree, but I understand your viewpoint is a common enough one. I said outright in the first thread that cloning is not the only way, its just the obvious candidate. Death is an extremely complicated technical problem and will need to be attacked from all sides by many different people. Cloning is a piece, but only a piece, of the larger puzzle.

Leopold Caine wrote:
Death has a purpose, even from the basic singular cell organisms, it's nature's way of balancing things out.

Not to mention it brings a certain dynamic to life - if everything would just stay in a constant state of invincibility and immortality, things would get rather dull rather quickly.

I won't drivel on with these basic biological or philosophical concepts however, but merely suggest you should perhaps invest into improving the lives of those already alive instead.


If we lived in a society where everyone must be clubbed over the head 30 times a day with a truncheon, and this had been the way society was structured for as long as anyone could remember, I'm sure we would wax poetical about how necessary it is to be beaten with a truncheon. There would be many great philosophers explaining the benefits of being beaten with a truncheon, and how, without the pain of the truncheon, how would we understand what it's like to not be in pain?

This is an obviously silly example, but it illustrates well that things can become embedded in a society and accepted as the norm when someone should probably be willing to say 'this is stupid, we should stop hitting ourselves with truncheons.' Death is accepted because throughout most of human history, we were powerless to stop it. But we're not powerless anymore, far from it, and its really past time that we stop hitting ourselves with truncheons.

I do agree that we should also spend energy improving the lives of those in the cluster, but even then, what's the point to such an investment when you plan on just letting those people die in the end? I think providing a way around death will have a major impact on many people in the cluster, and improve lives for trillions of people across space. It can't be all we do, but it's a starting point.

Neph wrote:
I embrace death, my own death, at least. Might seem odd that I say that, having willingly become a capsuleer, but nonetheless I await the day when I will shut my eyes for the last time.

Life is beautiful and amazing because it stands in such stark contrast with the dark. Look at how jaded so many capsuleers are. Ever wonder why so many people doubt we are human? We've forgotten death, so we throw away life. I find soft comfort in the knowledge that every person will eventually die. It binds us together, it makes us people, it keeps us humble.

Maybe a rare one glows bright enough to be seen on its on, but we are all just sparks, most too short-lived and dim to be seen individually. Together, we are a roaring fire, beautiful even for our horrible flaws, burning resolutely against the dark. What will that mean when it's all light outside?

Defeat death and we lose life.


So you're suicidal then? You might want to speak to a psychologist about that.
Rhoxy Runekin
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#15 - 2015-08-26 16:03:49 UTC
On behalf of my assistant manager, I would like to reiterate that "For those who want more from life." is already a slogan trademarked by Quafe company.

Thank you.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#16 - 2015-08-26 16:39:07 UTC
I'm not at all sure that we will ever conquer death and I am very sure that humanity isn't ready for us to do so - but we are capable of sharply reducing the number of avoidable deaths.

To that end the Tuulinen Foundation will be opening negotiations with Saede Riordan regarding her 'Slingshot' cloning system, in the hopes that when it is implemented, I will have lost my last crewmember to combat.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#17 - 2015-08-26 17:10:53 UTC
"I will exist forever!" said the face formed of sand.

The waves came, and scattered the sand all across the beach, and then storms came and washed the beach away, and scattered it to other beaches along the coast and down to the ocean floor, where time would sift more layers down over it. As eons passed, the sun grew and expanded until it swallowed the world, and all was burned and transformed into plasma in the star's heart.

Eventually, dying, the sun exploded in a cataclysm of matter and energy, and all it had gathered burst outwards, coalescing into new stars and new worlds.

And so the face's statement was true.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2015-08-26 18:49:02 UTC
Cloned crew still die. They are simply replaced with identical copies who did not make the choice to die again. They are slaves to the cycle of death you bought them with your compassion.

No matter how many copies you make of a person, no matter how hard you try to fight death as a disease, it will win in the end.
Even the stars will go cold.

A story told by the Brutor:

"Do you see this glass? The shaman asks.

For me this glass is already broken.

I enjoy it; I drink out of it. It holds my water admirably, sometimes even reflecting in the sun in beautiful patterns.
If I should tap it, it has a lovely ring.
But when I put this glass on the shelf and the wind knocks it over or my elbow brushes it off the table and it falls to the ground and shatters I say 'Of course'

When I understand that the glass is already broken, every moment with it is precious"


You clone your crews to keep their familiar faces beside you as comfort after they die.
But you never seem to ask why they have to die, why if they are so precious to you do you send them to their death.

Again and again and again.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#19 - 2015-08-26 20:48:41 UTC
My theory is to put the original bodies of the crew in cold-store and activate the clones. The clones then fight and die. On the death of the clone then the original is activated and either paid off or else recloned for another tour.

No muss, no fuss.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#20 - 2015-08-26 21:38:22 UTC
The real reason any war against Death is doomed to fail is of course the "end of days when they descend" spoken of in The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 32:6.

Knowing that the Scriptures will not convince the OP of the futility of her war, I started whipping my enslaved Sebiestor Science Graduates until they could come up with a scientific reason why a war on Death would be doomed to failure. They started mumbling something about a "Second Law of Thermodynamics". I don't really get this science stuff, but it sounded sort-of convincing.
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