EVE General Discussion

…but that's just assumption and perception, not how the system actually works. The curve is not linear. Arguing for a change based on the notion that it is is a nonsensical argument since the notion is flat out wrong.

Again, the solution is teaching, not mechanical change.

That's just a case of “barefoot in the snow, uphill”. Maybe in the really really olden days, if they picked an absolutely horrible race/bloodline/ancestry combo and did absolutely nothing to their stats, but that's on them, not the system.

When people talk about how you can train faster, what they're referring to are the options available to match your attributes to your skills: attribute remaps, implants, EveMon optimisation, as opposed to the old ways of picking a character background at (semi-)random, being screwed on the attributes, and having to train the hideously idiotic learning skills to really compensate for that unfortunate error. And of course, the best combo right now actually ends up with 72 SP less per hour than what was possible before the learning skill removal.

Eh… no. Not only are those all pretty spurious claims, but the timing is such that, if the supposed training time reduction had any effect, it would be to reduce the number of subs. First, the changes happened that people see as affecting training speed (most notably in early 2009 and late 2010), and then subs started dropping (a first wave in 2011, a second one in 2013).

Fair enough.

Actually CCP has experimented with different training times. Well, they have sped it up at the beginning. Removal of learning skills meant you trained faster right off, and did not have to make the devils choice between faster later, or some skills now. They also doubled the training speed for new players.

What was the effect? I don't know, but it does not seem like it resulted in a huge influx of new players.

Current numbers: the concurrent user value, averaged over a week, has been around 20,000 for about two months now. Eve is not shrinking, or growing.

The main difference is that you don't start hour 1, day 1, faced with choices you don't understand but which make more and more difference as time goes by.

If I were to guess, I'd say that it makes less difference for the new player than for the year-old one since they're not looking back at that largely uninformed choice and kicking themselves over how they chose wrong. Granted, the learning skills were hella-boring during the newbie stage and outright begged players not to log in, but on the other hand, at that stage it still looked to the newbie like you had a choice since the repercussions hadn't dawned on them yet.

I do not think I have heard such an... interesting analogy before...

I mean, doesn't that define how eve is now? Do all the members of the swarm, PL, etc have a round table and discuss what is the next move? No. There is the Alliance leaders, they decide the plan, they call CTA and they give orders that all under their command follow. Right now, everybody fly one generic cookie cutter checkers piece. Trollceptor to titans fleet, is one generic, and only variation is if you cannot fly that fit.

So I say, lets make eve so anybody can be a part of a fleet and all have relevance.

Pawn: The word translates back to mean "Foot Soldier". So absolutely. If I ran a big corp and wanted to wage big war, I will welcome in new players and they will know they are vital foot soldiers. You are in a T1 ship that is only sensor dampening? Good! You fifty dampen those logi ships, spread em out and slow down their lock time. You will die, but be reimbursed greater isk than if you just day hiding in a station or doing pve as a newb.

I don't get to decide, the newbs decide. If this offer existed, I am pretty sure newbs would be bowing and worshiping. I don't see arrogance, I see the ability in what a brand new player can do! 1m isk of frigates to keep reds at bay for a few minutes?

THAT! is a good fight!

I mean... I very much like the PVE aspect of the game, and I hope it doesn't go away. But I also understand the value of PVP and trying new things. I would rather not this game become either pure PVP or pure PVE. also, considering how much CCP seems to pay attention to feedback, I highly doubt they're THAT out of touch, nor wouldd I be that upset just because my favourite aspect of the game isn't getting as much attention currently.

Bit of statistics at start:
eve status monitor
accounts density

So, Rubicon was released 2013/2014. Since then, EvE started to losing players. After multiboxing changing, 2014/2015, it continue. Accounts density shows that most of players have 1 or 2 accounts. 10k "players" since 2014/2015?

What do we have in those 2 years? warp changes, industry and its UI changing, jump drives changes, new sov introduction, burner missions, ghost sites, sleepers sites, new hulls, many minor tweaks etc. Yet game become unplayable for some part of community. Why? Most of them bring some new content, improve quality or was an attempt to shake up part of cluster.

Maybe some of the changes, that were looking good at the start, like warp changes, brought more cons than pros to the game. Even CCP changed command ship warp speed lately. Maybe ppl want to play with their BS instead watching them waaaaarping and aaaaligning. It has nothing to do with insta gratification. I mean warp changes looks good when you think about it, small ships warp faster bigger slower, makes perfect sense, but we not playing games for perfect sense but to be entertained (in a pixel world with asteroid magically reappers after 24h). Warp speed rigs are not the answer here, they suppose to be an option not necessity.

CSM summit starting on monday. I hope minutes will be online fast.

Ok, logged in and shocked!

11892 players online :)

Average in the last 12 months for this time is around 17k

The simplest possible answer is a failure to follow through. Regardless of whether you've made the right or wrong decision, follow through!

The Summer of Rage (2011) Walking in Stations started the massive exodus of pissed players. Now we just find new reasons to be pissed as more ideas are slammed on the notice board and never followed to completion.

What happened to the on going incursions? Where's all those FW tweaks that were supposed to liven up the game? Oh look... you worked on jump drives, but you stopped halfway AGAIN because of player backlash. Now we're stuck with half done mechanics and little if any real content contribution.

Complaint and Action threads are snipped daily whenever they reference the fact that there is a failure to follow through. Dev's and GM's get slammed for their lack of follow through. Negativity is counter productive to the methods of gaining players and increasing your overall income, but ya know what? That negativity is us telling you that we're still playing. We're taking the time to spend our money and TELL you that something is wrong. Things haven't been finished and we need someone to hang the blame on. Someone to universally hate and see as the person responsible for this. Right now, that has become Fozzie. Because that's who you've left us with. Clearly things aren't going to the right place because nothing is happening and the few ISD and GM's/Dev's brave enough to comment on these firestack posts don't wait for returned commentary to whether they're doing something or not.

Sometimes we're brushed off with "next expansion" or "we plan to look into this later". Do us a favor and take the flak so that we know you care to hear our opinions. Right now, we all feel brushed off and ignored. You've got your niche market of PvPer's and roamers. I'll admit, I do like PvP and roaming, but I also like relaxing in high sec mining and doing brainless missions and NPC grinds. But it gets boring and annoying when you've been promised change and new content only to find that it's NOT IN YOUR REGION or Not for High Sec Carebears.

That is all.

fact of the matter is that not many people are interested in spaceship games.. especially after all the spreadsheet negative publicity the games received over the years. if ccp want the game to flourish for another 10 years they will need to reinvent the wheel... and they need to do it with null sec. i know they have tried to alter it but again fact remains nothing has changed.. the game is still controlled and run by power blocks ... and while CCP continue to support these huge blocks of power eve wont be able to flourish.. as it needs to. too few players are dictating over the mass players in eve.. they take space with hope of ever being able to secure it long term them selves or maintain it them selves so they take it and rent it out to others for stupid amounts of money !!! and while this short cut to null option is on the table to new and useless alliances alike! null will always be controlled by the power blocks dictating to others.... just try to imagine creating your own 600 -1200 member alliance and wanting to live in null.. sure your all vets when it comes to pvp and you have plenty of dreads and carriers.. ! so you go and attempt to take a system in null .. bare in mind for a 1200 strong alliance your going to need at least an entire region so your guys can operate and play comfortably! the problem stars when the defenders come in.. and its around 2000+ consisting of several alliances in the form of a coalition.. the outcome is obvious.. the capable 1200 whop deserve to live in null and can fight off and defend against other alliances ends up getting swamped by huge fleets almost doubling their number.. its a basic math game.. if you bring 2000 battles versus 1200 battle ships the larger number is going to win. sure you could try to divide and conquer! but 2000 split is still more than 1200 split.. so much so that they can double your fleet on all fronts.. they could even triple your fleet and use a smaller fleet to match whats left of your fleet and still thrash you silly.. now bare in mind how many people where evolved in the last major null sec battle.. that was a battle between two massive coalitions.. unless your in those coalitions you do not stand a chance and trying to form a similar sized coalition is near on impossible as most corps and alliances just flock to the side of the big entities because its easier and safer and requires little effort to get established null sec access.

I'm not bitter but i am disappointed the game is in this state. what happened to the days where every one wanted to murder goons or remove bob from eve.. now it seems every one wants to be on a certain team.

its disheartening for new and upcoming players wanting to build their own corp and alliance and then try to get some null sec space.. its now only possible if you go live in that hell hole known as npc null or you rent from another alliance which is a member of a coalition or you join that alliance to get the access...

I am primarily a ceo and have enjoyed building a corp and an alliance but i lost my heart for the game when it became apparent that the only way to get hold of some null space was to get on some one else s train and ride with them and give up hope on your own or settle for empire life.. and no living in low sec does not cut it.. ive spent the last 2 years living in low sec.. even attempted to build a corp in low sec which again was overwhelmed by larger entities.. you take 30 into the battle they bring 60! and so on.. you move your guys into an area with hopes of making it a home and some one moves in on mass and swamps you in the system and you eventually have to move on.

again im not wining im just attempting to point out the issues with the game that in my opinion is having a direct effect on population. hell it caused me to give up trying.. at my peak i ran a 600 man alliance and it was by no means enough to control a low sec system let alone take space in null..

i don't know how ccp would break up these coalitions or cause them to splinter back into individual alliances so the game became interesting again. perhaps removing the ability to jump in capitals all together might fix it.. force all ships through star gates. maybe remove titans and super carriers and bump up the construction needs of dreads and carriers so less of them are in use and more expensive.

Or introduce fuel to all ships. and each race using a different fuel source that can only be refined in certain areas of eve like near specific factions .. so amaarr ships would need one type of fuel and its only available in a few locations in eve. so the alliance in question would have to think long and hard which type of players the recruit based on their ships and the fuel they require. this alone would break coalitions up as the individual player would have to go and be near the fuel sources for their ships. or retrain into other factions ships.

One thing i do know is null sec is a playground for just a handful of players.. every one else out their are just eating out of their hands and it needs fixing.. their is no politics between coalitions and alliances.. its just coalition telling alliance where they can go and what they can do and for how much each week or month. it really needs fixing!!

I do agree with the basic message of finish what you started, but I would go one step further.

EVE attracts a lot of play styles and since the whole Jita thing (and other assorted misadventures) CCP seem to have taken a step back. So as soon as someones play style is in danger they throw a tantrum on the forums or in game and try to blackmail CCP into changing direction again.

So decisions that would be good for long term EVE health are potentially not implemented due to blackmail rage quitters.
I personally would like to see CCP to go back to THEIR original vision of EVE and start working towards it again ( if anyone is still left at CCP who remembers what it was about). It used to be a niche game , they tried to go mainstream - a lot of players from the "game that shall not be named" joined up at some point - then left again and now EVE is apparently dying.

I see EVE as a work in progress - so if something is broken that really hinders me to play the game in a meaningful way I check back in a year or two and it probably has changed 3 times over.

Also guys , give them a break - there is no right and wrong decisions (unless it is F2P or P2W) it will affect everyone's play style differently - one patch you win , one patch you loose- feedback is important but the overall eve health comes first to your particular style of eve. They just try different things to see what brings the intended effect and is the least abuse able system. I dont think you can stress test the unlimited ingenuity of eve players to find loopholes and abuse game mechanics in very creative ways.

Maybe if the devs would be more active in the F&I threats and explain (devblog?) why some feedback wasn't implemented or ideas discarded that might appease the rabble a little after all didn't they commit to be more communicative?