EVE General Discussion

Tiercide and ship balancing effort / impacts. I am surprised after reading this thread neither of those were referenced more often.

I did see "Eve is real" quoted. I'm pretty dang sure some of the advertising verbiage which was persuasive to me to start playing was "persistent universe".

Well, I did not find it very persistent when I starting logging on and finding that parts were starting to fall off my goran ship as it was sitting in the hangar. Or if everything was still mounted that a fit which worked last time I undocked would no longer allow all modules to be powered up after I was out in space.

What I would have found persistent was a change such that the original / old production models could no longer be manufactured and any and all balancing impacts took effect only to the new units (name_of_whatever MarkII) coming off the manufacturing line.

• Yes, that would take more time for ship re-balancing to fully take effect since it requires attrition as all the old ones get destroyed in normal usage.


• Yes, the market values of some 'original' models would have gone through the roof. Arguably an 'unfair' profit bonanza for the owners of those "golden oldies".


• Yes, there would have, in some cases, been an 'unfair' advantage from having / using an old production run unit. (Which combined with inflated collector's model pricing would make them more gank attractive.)


• Yes, there would have been a substantial 'price' to pay in complexity for CCP code and database implementation.

To all those complaints my response would essentially be to players "Suck it up. Eve isn't about fair." and to CCP "Suck it up. There are consequences to your actions."

But then Eve would have been a persistent universe.


Most observably they were not, to my game play. In the final analysis as to how the game functions, I can agree. How the changes were implemented, however, was abysmal.


Perhaps, if ship re-balancing has now reached a new stability point, this will all fade away. But to be on-topic, that truly is one of the reasons I haven't been bothering to log on much this last year.

I 100% agree with this.

I'm sure probably the majority of this thread would classify me as a care bear. (Even though I and/or one of my alts do have a few kills on the board.) Fight when I have to. Fight when there's a reason. Well, sometimes even used to go roaming looking for trouble.

However, when I started it was a closed universe. If you wanted / needed to buy something you had to earn your ISK. I liked the idea that a war could not be waged unless the parties each had a sufficient economy in place to support the expense. Something which drew me into the game - TANSTAFL. "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."

Part of the frisson to properly being a "care bear" is fully internalizing the standard phrase "Don't undock in what you're not prepared to lose." I've spent many an hour in roid and ice belts - but always with one eye over my shoulder. And always with an acute awareness of "How tilted is this fit to ISK/hour versus defense?".

And always with an awareness that eventually, no matter how safe you try to be, someday "they're gonna get you."

IMO, PLEX is a plaque on the game. I've encountered far too many people who just drop real world money to buy 'whatever' because they don't want to pay the dues / earn it by playing the game to do what they just "I wanna! Now!".

I've seen several comments in this thread about the need to "add more risk" to 'PvE' to make it more exiting. I tend to agree. But only on a level playing field.

If you want to gank, fine. But you better make a profit or you won't be doing it long. Or you better be prepared to haul that Veldspar, boy, to pay for your next gank attempt. ("No money for gas, no driving Papa's car this weekend.")

Except for game balance things HAVE to change. Since otherwise the oldies get all the advantages. Not just 90% of them like they did due to the mineral changes.
So, HTFU, deal with it. Every MMO changes for balance. And CCP didn't just delete the OP items so be glad.

It is very different to dislike pvp and to dislike the pvpers.

Well, from my perspective, following things do need a slight change to keep people from leaving or at least to keep people interested in playing EVE.

EVE-wise:

1) Risk vs reward - increase the risk and lower the rewards. Even if I rat in empire space with a 60m sp toon, I can make 100m per day just from the faction spawns and anomaly loot. Im not even considering the incursions as I never ran them and consider it being a foul stench which kinda ruined the beauty of hi sec.

2) Moons need to deplete resources - Alliances claim space and hold it, increasing in numbers during the time of stagnation. "Re-spawnable" moons call for more drastic action like uproot and conquest.

3) Kill the damn jump bridges - It was fun as hell when you had roams in 0.0 space to kill the parties which tried to move from one system to another. Carriers did the hauling. Not to mention that if you were a leech ratter, you could make tons of isk AND you would only claim that isk if you managed to bring it to hi sec for sales.

4) Exploration - this needs to be redone as you can make insane amounts of isk with no risk at all.

5) Missions in hi sec - you cannot make as much money as you used to, but you can still make a nice batch of isk. However you would maybe have to alter the amount of times you do a mission rather then decrease the drop rates, as done in one of the previous patches. Limit mission types in form of allowing 1 mission every 24 hours. So you don't get extravaganza 2-3 times per day. Once you do all the missions for that single day, you have to wait 24 hours before going for the next mission set.

6) Limit losses in hi sec to haulers - was more fond of the low sec bs camping and low sec piracy then this hi sec gankerton stuff. Not fun, its just stale. Sooner or later, it will come to a point where catalysts will start to pop empty haulers just for the sake of tears. Limit it by not allowing

7) Dont disclose stuff you introduce to EVE - whats the point of saying "Hey people, we are giving you this and that, its ******* hard and awesome, but heres how you can properly solo it...."

Player wise:

1) Figure out if you wanna be a CEO or follower - cant be both

2) Be nice to people who are in your corp - why all the screaming and yelling??? I understand you, CEO or FC, were molested as children or are unhappy with your current RL situation, but no need to take it out on your corp mates. I understand the hormones are kicking off for the younger studs, but a 25-40 year old fellow dont appreciate it if you, the 18 year old hairless dude, yells at him on ts.

3) Full API checks aint worth it - we now have illegal fire, we had the ability to limit hanger thefts, there are out of game websites where you can check up the character involved in the recruitment process. So no point in asking for an API as chances are 50/50 that the newcomer is a spy. Corporation asks for disclosure of assets, skills and contacts and in 99% we really dont want others digging up through our garbage. Either dont ask for it or CEO has to disclose his full api as well. The Full Monty from both sides. "You want to trust me? Well, I want to trust you." :)

4) Corp access - You will get robbed, whether you like it or not. Either will you lose assets, which can be compensated with more play or you will lose members/quality gameplay, simply because you decided not to put out. However, you can get to decide what are you willing to let the thief take. Same principle like in pvp. Hand out what you are willing to lose.

5) If miners wanna mine in 0.0, then dont force them into pvp. Unless sov is under attack (which aint happened on a global scale since BoB died). Same goes for ratters. Most corps charge their guys 5-15%.

6) Overall recruitment attitude - Why lie about your corp? Dont sell your corp as something it aint. If you are small, you dont offer much but saying you do will only get you a 100m sp player who will get pissed off and leave after a few days.

Those would be some of my points, confident that they dont agree with the views of most :)

That succinct description of exploration as risk-free and lucrative leads me to believe you've never taken part in it. :)

Ah yes, Providence. A region recently known far and wide for it's lack of risk.

Clearly you should write a guide to this. You've found a way to beat the RNG and simultaneously avoid any risk in some of the most dangerous regions of the game.

maybe OP should follow the trend and unsub. Can i have your stuff?

For major changes, (talking the above persistence), I actually would have liked ship revisions. Only current on market, old in contracts. BPs and in productions get auto revised. Yeah, sucks a bit more for database potentially, but boy would it be fun. The YC114 year of drake or something. Would be pretty neat.... Rofl... Even keep old model. I would love to fly zombie moa still.

The bits about breaking alliances and blues, best way for that is with a better infrastructure plan. More active maintenance and resource zoning a bit more valued?