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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

First post
Author
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3921 - 2016-01-18 01:08:47 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
She cannot comprehend how someone can like a game and yet have problems with some of it.


Oh, I can comprehend perfectly. The things you have a "problem with" are pretty much what makes the game what it is. Changing those things not only wouldn't work to negatively affect the people who have that eternal hard on against, all it would do would nerf people like me. You just don't get it.

What you mistake for "black and white" is simply that I actually understand how valuable time is. I can't imagine liking a game (Elite) more than another game (EVE) and choosing to waste time playing the lesser of the 2. I sure as hell wouldn't have thousands of posts on the lesser game's board and still be paying the makers of the lesser game (who have rejected you world view time and again) for access.

I'm not questioning the right of people like you to be here. I'm questioning your sanity. My entire life I've known people who have had better options who stuck with a less optimal option because, to be frank, they were a bit touched in the headquarters and didn't want to give up on the "potential" of the thing they couldn't let go of. Oh , and they "have so much invested in him it"
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#3922 - 2016-01-18 01:11:29 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
She's not talking about minor cosmetic features like your car's dashboard. She's talking about you buying a car and trying to use it for hangliding. Sure, with enough money, persistence and effort, you can incrementally turn a truck into a not very good microlight aircraft, but the process will involve you faceplanting into the ground at speed a number of times, and will cost you vastly more time, effort and disappointment than just admtting to yourself that you should go to the damb microlight store and buy the article you actually want, rather than trying to convince the car manufacturer to alienate all their customers who want to buy a truck by gradually making it lighter, removing all the body work and putting little wings on the side.


Your example does not really apply to EvE.

People are not asking for unicorns, but to have a game that is kept somewhat updated with the industry standards.

A better example would be a cars manufacturer that stays up to date with their cars exhaust ecology standards until 2011 (WiS, but it's just one of many features. PI is just another example).
Then they had the stuff already done at 60% to go ahead but they simply drop it (WiS) or create a laughable imitation (PI). Since that date, all the cars from that brand are out of the pollution standards, but who cares, they belive their customers shall keep their numbers forever, even when the police will start throwing fines at them.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3923 - 2016-01-18 01:56:50 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


People are not asking for unicorns, but to have a game that is kept somewhat updated with the industry standards.


"Industry Standards" in an industry where most games aren't like EVE, that caters to low attention span gamers and where most games die in a fraction of the time that EVE has existed?

No thanks.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3924 - 2016-01-18 02:03:37 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


People are not asking for unicorns,


Actually now you mention it a Unicorn might be rather nice.

Fedo Unicorns on hoverboards ... that might be taking it a bit far.
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3925 - 2016-01-18 02:06:41 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
She cannot comprehend how someone can like a game and yet have problems with some of it.


Oh, I can comprehend perfectly. The things you have a "problem with" are pretty much what makes the game what it is. Changing those things not only wouldn't work to negatively affect the people who have that eternal hard on against, all it would do would nerf people like me. You just don't get it.

What you mistake for "black and white" is simply that I actually understand how valuable time is. I can't imagine liking a game (Elite) more than another game (EVE) and choosing to waste time playing the lesser of the 2. I sure as hell wouldn't have thousands of posts on the lesser game's board and still be paying the makers of the lesser game (who have rejected you world view time and again) for access.

I'm not questioning the right of people like you to be here. I'm questioning your sanity. My entire life I've known people who have had better options who stuck with a less optimal option because, to be frank, they were a bit touched in the headquarters and didn't want to give up on the "potential" of the thing they couldn't let go of. Oh , and they "have so much invested in him it"



This game is what it is because the executable file is called Eve.exe

If it changes over time and you don't like the changes then it is you who have found fault and should go find an Eve 2003 clone somewhere. Stop making everyone else play your game you way.
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#3926 - 2016-01-18 02:21:57 UTC
This thread needs to die Shocked

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#3927 - 2016-01-18 02:44:56 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


People are not asking for unicorns, but to have a game that is kept somewhat updated with the industry standards.


"Industry Standards" in an industry where most games aren't like EVE, that caters to low attention span gamers and where most games die in a fraction of the time that EVE has existed?

No thanks.


I take it, CCP created PI for short attention span, new and therefore (for you) genetically wrong people?

Or CCP announced a revamp of the markets interface whereas only did 1 true improvement (blue orders)?

Or CCP created a whole 3D proprietary engine... for what? To create nice forum portraits?

I forgot those were features asked by "wrong genes" people like me... oh wait, CCP developed half of those things and then left them to rot.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#3928 - 2016-01-18 02:45:38 UTC
King Aires wrote:
This game is what it is because the executable file is called Eve.exe

So if CCP chose to call the executable file Main.exe, the game wouldn't be Eve anymore?

Is that really a suggestion that we believe the game is what it is because of the name of 1 file; and nothing to do with what that file actually does?
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#3929 - 2016-01-18 02:53:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


People are not asking for unicorns, but to have a game that is kept somewhat updated with the industry standards.


...


...

I'd be more interesting in knowing what industry standards?

I can understand the requirement for industry standards around how systems in the game are constructed. Things like how the gameloop maintains consistency across machines, standards for network communication, standards for audio, etc.

I don't see any evidence that Eve doesn't keep up in that regard in comparison to games of similar scope.

But are there standards to define what the essence of a game is?

Aren't they really the things that make games unique and kind of defy standardisation?

It seems to me, if all games standardised around what they do, then there would be nothing unique about them and the only reason to play one over the other would be simply for the graphics and sound.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3930 - 2016-01-18 02:57:48 UTC
King Aires wrote:


If it changes over time and you don't like the changes then it is you who have found fault and should go find an Eve 2003 clone somewhere.


there's that same dishonest nature you've displayed for years. No one is against change. Only the changes you types want.

Quote:

Stop making everyone else play your game you way.


You know when you say this, you are just telling everyone that you know I'm right (because this kind of butt hurt defensive response only comes from someone who realizes a truth they don't care for). I've never once told anyone to play 'my way'.

Expecting grown men and women to acknowledge objective reality of the video game they choose to subscribe to (ie EVE is a pvp game) and act accordingly (which for A PVEr means 'protect yourself') rather than asking the developers to change the game as you do is not and has not ever been "play the game my way". Stop hiding behind lies (and new alts) and try being a man for once.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3931 - 2016-01-18 04:59:57 UTC
I don't know. I am under the impression CCP secretly was building Valkyrie because they have the suspicion the they will get a million players like War Thunder and World of Tanks, while EVE stagnates with sub 400K numbers.

After that it will become their main squeeze while EVE becomes the red headed step child which they keep around because they feel sentimental.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

Top Guac
Doomheim
#3932 - 2016-01-18 05:13:32 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I don't know. I am under the impression CCP secretly was building Valkyrie...

Such secret. Much wow.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3933 - 2016-01-18 05:20:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I don't know. I am under the impression CCP secretly was building Valkyrie because they have the suspicion the they will get a million players like War Thunder and World of Tanks, while EVE stagnates with sub 400K numbers.

After that it will become their main squeeze while EVE becomes the red headed step child which they keep around because they feel sentimental.


I was hoping that would have happened with World of Darkness. EVE being CCPs main thing leaves the game itself vulnerable to bad decisions driven by stakeholders always wanting better returns. I hope like hell Valkyrie succeeds, maybe it will draw away the casual/instant gratification/ "I pay 15 bucks therefore the world revolves around me" crowd leaving the parts of the community that actually likes EVE online for what it is instead of it 'potential' (ie their fantasies).

Thing is I know that's wishful thinking. And I know it because I'm old enough to know that some people ENJOY being miserable and disappointed and love having something to argue about. So as long as there is EVE (and Earth) there wil be people who feel like everything needs to change regardless of the merits of and need for that change.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3934 - 2016-01-18 05:39:06 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:

It seems to me, if all games standardised around what they do, then there would be nothing unique about them and the only reason to play one over the other would be simply for the graphics and sound.


You just described exactly what happened with battlefront 3. Great graphics, great sounds but gameplay wise it was gutted so badly eve the COD clones getting pumped out these days look deep and content rich. This is the industry standard now, buggy, unfinished, dumbed down games with zero staying power but oh look how pretty the graphics are!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3935 - 2016-01-18 05:45:17 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I don't know. I am under the impression CCP secretly was building Valkyrie because they have the suspicion the they will get a million players like War Thunder and World of Tanks, while EVE stagnates with sub 400K numbers.

After that it will become their main squeeze while EVE becomes the red headed step child which they keep around because they feel sentimental.


400k subs for a decade vs a million of one time sales, I somehow think EVE is gonna be the bigger moneybag.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3936 - 2016-01-18 05:55:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
baltec1 wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I don't know. I am under the impression CCP secretly was building Valkyrie because they have the suspicion the they will get a million players like War Thunder and World of Tanks, while EVE stagnates with sub 400K numbers.

After that it will become their main squeeze while EVE becomes the red headed step child which they keep around because they feel sentimental.


400k subs for a decade vs a million of one time sales, I somehow think EVE is gonna be the bigger moneybag.


400K * $15 = $6,000,000

6 mil * 12 = $72 million What EVE makes at total possible numbers a year

In 2013, the microtransaction revenue of World of Tanks surpassed that of World of Warcraft, earning $372 million and ranking fourth highest amongst online game revenues.

World of tanks for 2014 = 217.9 million Euro or 235 million US dollars

Edit

Don't forgot Star Citizen has gotten $105,972,003 for doing nothing of much.

So yeah... Wild prediction. If Eve Valkyrie and Oculus take off, it will be more successful than EVE.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#3937 - 2016-01-18 06:12:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Captain Tardbar wrote:

400K * $15 = $6,000,000

6 mil * 12 = $72 million What EVE makes at total possible numbers a year

Sometimes I wish I only gave CCP $15 a month.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-T9YbgJIj5qg/VWje-OYO5vI/AAAAAAAAA_k/_TYUVc3U0Yo/s1600/image7b.PNG

That suggests the numbers are a very large under estimate.

2014 was $68 million revenue from external sales for the company. That is CCP as a whole, but aside from whatever licencing arrangement they have with Sony for DUST and the non-current assets, the largest source of sales to customers is from Eve related sales, unless I'm totally missing something.

Edit:
Total derp on my part. I can't read properly and thought you were saying that was total revenue over the 12 (nearly 13 now) years of Eve, not 1 year. Your figures look pretty reasonable once I understood what you are saying.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3938 - 2016-01-18 06:28:14 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
400K * $15 = $6,000,000

6 mil * 12 = $72 million What EVE makes at total possible numbers a year

Sometimes I wish I only gave CCP $15 a month.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-T9YbgJIj5qg/VWje-OYO5vI/AAAAAAAAA_k/_TYUVc3U0Yo/s1600/image7b.PNG

That suggests the numbers are a very large under estimate.

2014 was $68 million revenue from external sales for the company. That is CCP as a whole, but aside from whatever licencing arrangement they have with Sony for DUST and the non-current assets, the largest source of sales to customers is from Eve related sales, unless I'm totally missing something.


Yeah. My figures are based on what if CCP had exactly 400K subscribers which no one knows at this point or not.

There are microtransactions, but if your figures are right then that does not really account for much of the $68 million.

Either way. My point is that CCP is hoping to earn it big time with EVE Valkyrie.

Its the new War Thunder in their eyes and they are hoping to branch out.

Which is why they devoted a crap load of resources in developing and hiring A list actors to voice it. They intend to compete with Star Citizen with it.

EVE... Not so much.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3939 - 2016-01-18 06:30:40 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I don't know. I am under the impression CCP secretly was building Valkyrie because they have the suspicion the they will get a million players like War Thunder and World of Tanks, while EVE stagnates with sub 400K numbers.

After that it will become their main squeeze while EVE becomes the red headed step child which they keep around because they feel sentimental.


400k subs for a decade vs a million of one time sales, I somehow think EVE is gonna be the bigger moneybag.


400K * $15 = $6,000,000

6 mil * 12 = $72 million What EVE makes at total possible numbers a year

In 2013, the microtransaction revenue of World of Tanks surpassed that of World of Warcraft, earning $372 million and ranking fourth highest amongst online game revenues.

World of tanks for 2014 = 217.9 million Euro or 235 million US dollars

Edit

Don't forgot Star Citizen has gotten $105,972,003 for doing nothing of much.

So yeah... Wild prediction. If Eve Valkyrie and Oculus take off, it will be more successful than EVE.


Valkyrie is still a one off payment on a platform that so far costs £500.

Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3940 - 2016-01-18 06:39:18 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I don't know. I am under the impression CCP secretly was building Valkyrie because they have the suspicion the they will get a million players like War Thunder and World of Tanks, while EVE stagnates with sub 400K numbers.

After that it will become their main squeeze while EVE becomes the red headed step child which they keep around because they feel sentimental.


400k subs for a decade vs a million of one time sales, I somehow think EVE is gonna be the bigger moneybag.


400K * $15 = $6,000,000

6 mil * 12 = $72 million What EVE makes at total possible numbers a year

In 2013, the microtransaction revenue of World of Tanks surpassed that of World of Warcraft, earning $372 million and ranking fourth highest amongst online game revenues.

World of tanks for 2014 = 217.9 million Euro or 235 million US dollars

Edit

Don't forgot Star Citizen has gotten $105,972,003 for doing nothing of much.

So yeah... Wild prediction. If Eve Valkyrie and Oculus take off, it will be more successful than EVE.


Valkyrie is still a one off payment on a platform that so far costs £500.



Which has sold out all the way into July. I think CCP has bet on the right horse.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server