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JumpClone cooldown to 12 Hours! [POLL]
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Courdorecqe en Faan
Doomheim
#21 - 2011-12-09 13:57:12 UTC
No

We who follow the Way aim to live a life of moderation, not succumbing to the extremes of self-indulgence or self-denial. Ida is a way of living, we do not have any beliefs in heaven or hell, and do not take any writings or sayings as "truth". Ida is a path, but Intaki are expected to walk it themselves.
Stonecold Steve
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#22 - 2011-12-09 14:09:13 UTC
I'm up for setting it to 36hrs.

OR

Make a differents between highsec -> lowsec/null and lowsec/null -> highsec.

null/low to highsec 24 hrs.
highsec to null/low 18 hrs. (with training)

“Hasta la muerte, todo es vida.”
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#23 - 2011-12-09 14:11:46 UTC
Jump clones are used for force projection and risk avoidance, both of which are bad things in the game.

Those who don't see why JCs are bad/would be worse with a lower timer need to stop and think.


Those who said/agreed with "no reason not to and it would make my life easier" really need to stop and think, as that statment contains the reason not to.

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-12-09 14:13:51 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Jump clones are used for force projection and risk avoidance, both of which are bad things in the game.

Those who don't see why JCs are bad/would be worse with a lower timer need to stop and think.


Those who said/agreed with "no reason not to and it would make my life easier" really need to stop and think, as that statment contains the reason not to.

Lord Zim wrote:
Or you can just update the clone to a different station and pod your sorry ass.

vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#25 - 2011-12-09 14:19:01 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Or you can just update the clone to a different station and pod your sorry ass.

vOv
I'm sorry, was this supposed to have a point?

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Sarmatiko
#26 - 2011-12-09 14:28:34 UTC
I will agree with skill dependent reduction. Every skill level reduces jump cooldown for 1 hour. Skill should be Rank 10+
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#27 - 2011-12-09 14:32:53 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Or you can just update the clone to a different station and pod your sorry ass.

vOv
I'm sorry, was this supposed to have a point?


Its a point of force projection. Its another flawed design IMO. However at least thats limited based off of location and if your corp has a office in that station. So its at least somewhat controlled.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#28 - 2011-12-09 14:35:19 UTC
Considering the ease of jumping with capitals and bridges and what have you, having the clone jump feature limited to 24 hours feels somewhat outdated with the current state of New Eden.

Some random thoughts on this that I never bothered to flesh out.

It restricts accessibility of PVP, not talking about people that are unwilling to jump out of their precious +5 learning skills but those that fly a variety of ships and might be in their frigate set and get a CTA to do a pos bash with the chance of podding, then next day be asked to go on a BC roam. While you can say 'just deal with it',

I think the modern game features more diversity of activity for each player and being able to at least react to each evenings fleet ops (or even personal goals) with say, a 18 hour limit rather than 24, so you have some flexibility.

There is no reason to cater to people that just want to jump back into +5's at will but easing up a bit encourages more PVP... also useful for people involved in a mix of industry and pvp. In fact it is in this area that it is more critical. Who wants to go pvp with mining foreman links etc?

Lowering the timer enables more activity and doesn't just mean insta jumping across the universe any more than it does as it currently exists.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#29 - 2011-12-09 14:36:07 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Its a point of force projection. Its another flawed design IMO. However at least thats limited based off of location and if your corp has a office in that station. So its at least somewhat controlled.
Well at least if you pod yourself you lose your implants and have to buy a clone.

Jump clones are more like "Would you like to use a set of +5's and then PvP without risking them? Well step right up!"

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Joshua Aivoras
Tech IV Industries
#30 - 2011-12-09 14:40:12 UTC
Just remove learning implants, and there wouldn't be the need for a "learning clone" to swap between every other day. It's dumb anyhow.

95% of the players are loving EVE, the other 5%? On the forums.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#31 - 2011-12-09 14:51:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Destination SkillQueue
Lady Spank wrote:
Considering the ease of jumping with capitals and bridges and what have you, having the clone jump feature limited to 24 hours feels somewhat outdated with the current state of New Eden.

Some random thoughts on this that I never bothered to flesh out.

It restricts accessibility of PVP, not talking about people that are unwilling to jump out of their precious +5 learning skills but those that fly a variety of ships and might be in their frigate set and get a CTA to do a pos bash with the chance of podding, then next day be asked to go on a BC roam. While you can say 'just deal with it',

I think the modern game features more diversity of activity for each player and being able to at least react to each evenings fleet ops (or even personal goals) with say, a 18 hour limit rather than 24, so you have some flexibility.

There is no reason to cater to people that just want to jump back into +5's at will but easing up a bit encourages more PVP... also useful for people involved in a mix of industry and pvp. In fact it is in this area that it is more critical. Who wants to go pvp with mining foreman links etc?

Lowering the timer enables more activity and doesn't just mean insta jumping across the universe any more than it does as it currently exists.


My thoughts follows pretty much the same line of thinking and that is why I think the OPs proposal isn't any good. It would be much preferable to simply separate the current clone jumping and the instant teleportation it provides from each other. Make it so, that teleportation is what triggers the long cooldown, while a local clone jump is treated more like a session change. That way you cater to the modern gameplay requirements and facilitate people to vary their activities more freely, while still maintaining the teleportation option and any balancing timers for it.

Joshua Aivoras wrote:
Just remove learning implants, and there wouldn't be the need for a "learning clone" to swap between every other day. It's dumb anyhow.


You're still left with hardwirings not suited for the task you're trying to do, which leaves you with the same issue as before.
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#32 - 2011-12-09 15:35:44 UTC
JC are bad. But this is business.Blink

Empire, the next new world order.
Thelron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#33 - 2011-12-09 17:19:46 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Considering the ease of jumping with capitals and bridges and what have you, having the clone jump feature limited to 24 hours feels somewhat outdated with the current state of New Eden.

Some random thoughts on this that I never bothered to flesh out.

It restricts accessibility of PVP, not talking about people that are unwilling to jump out of their precious +5 learning skills but those that fly a variety of ships and might be in their frigate set and get a CTA to do a pos bash with the chance of podding, then next day be asked to go on a BC roam. While you can say 'just deal with it',

I think the modern game features more diversity of activity for each player and being able to at least react to each evenings fleet ops (or even personal goals) with say, a 18 hour limit rather than 24, so you have some flexibility.

There is no reason to cater to people that just want to jump back into +5's at will but easing up a bit encourages more PVP... also useful for people involved in a mix of industry and pvp. In fact it is in this area that it is more critical. Who wants to go pvp with mining foreman links etc?

Lowering the timer enables more activity and doesn't just mean insta jumping across the universe any more than it does as it currently exists.


Or severely reduce the ease with which you can travel via cyno/bridge so cloning doens't seem so slow in comparison.

I could agree with cutting down on the timer if it were only for swapping between two clones on the same station (so folks can indeed keep their +5 learning implants safe, or have one *really specialized* setup and then something more general), but we really don't need to make it easier for people to just pop up somewhere completely different without any of the time or danger of moving via established spacelanes. Instant travel (even if it's "just" once per day) only encourages blob-play because everyone can get right to where they need to go immediately- there's no reason *not* to blob up and take everyone on an invasion if you know they can all just pop back home if someone tries to take advantage of your absence.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#34 - 2011-12-09 17:23:09 UTC
Needs option 3, New skill to lower cooldown.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#35 - 2011-12-09 17:49:21 UTC
No.

At most it should be lowered to, say, 23h to remove the fence post error and make a proper once-a-day thing, rather than the current once-every-a-bit-more-than-a-day.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#36 - 2011-12-09 17:52:29 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:


Gate camper and blob merchant detected


Instant gratification monkey detected
Phlyk
The VonBraun Institute
#37 - 2011-12-09 17:58:15 UTC
Do away with the jump clone timer when swapping with another clone in the same station. Keep the 24h timer for jumping to a remote clone.

That way you won't be jumping around the universe constantly, and you may have more people giving PvP a go if they aren't risking expensive clones, or a loss of training time.
Cerberine Saken
Eternal Ennui
#38 - 2011-12-09 18:44:57 UTC
I'm personally in favour of removing learning implants altogether. Much as a shorter JC cooldown would be nice, it'd be even nicer if there weren't that 500mil-ISK discouragement to pvp sitting in my highsec clone. I know that there's still the issue of hardwiring then, but for me at least, the learning implants in my highsec clones make up the lion's share of their value.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#39 - 2011-12-09 19:03:11 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
I actually think they need to INCREASE the time or limit the ability of jump cloning. The whole JC process eliminates the need for normal travel and makes moving around WAY to easy. You can be at your home defending one day then JC to a staging area across the map the next. This makes any sort of longterm invasion a cake walk, aswell as defending large areas of space a breeze.

So no.


Yeah, its way easy to grind 8 standing, make a jump clone, take the jumpclone to where it has to be, and then jumpclone back.

/sarcasm

But you prove my point by bringing up "long term invasion". It takes long term planning to have jumpclones set up in a way that will allow a long term invasion, or defending multiple areas of space.


internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2011-12-09 19:12:26 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Its a point of force projection. Its another flawed design IMO. However at least thats limited based off of location and if your corp has a office in that station. So its at least somewhat controlled.
Well at least if you pod yourself you lose your implants and have to buy a clone.

Jump clones are more like "Would you like to use a set of +5's and then PvP without risking them? Well step right up!"

I haven't had an implant in my char since I left hisec. Which means that for a few million, I can jump from deklein, to delve, to deklein, in a matter of less than 5 minutes.

"Force project" that, *****.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat