These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Alliance Tournament Ships

Author
C' Luigi
Tr0pa de elite.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#61 - 2015-08-24 18:49:26 UTC
Bianca Bardot wrote:
C' Luigi wrote:
Risking of losing ~150b ship on a tourey, is one story.
Other story is to have clean advantage of other team, supposing that other team cant field AT reward ship.


Ya, its totally impossible to get a malice ...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=402655

oh wait.



And 95b isk, is just a child's play.
My accent was on actuall value of the ship, either you are dumb to see the point, or just trolling, and i sincerely hope that its second one.
Serena Greyskull
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#62 - 2015-08-24 19:00:44 UTC
It's funny, this is the exact kind of weasel word bull that hydra were spouting when they got banned the last time. They know they dont have any moral highground, so they resort to trolling and name calling.

They know theyre trying to bend the rules, we know theyre trying to bend the rules, its just a question of whether ccp will come in and lay the smackdown.
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#63 - 2015-08-24 19:39:06 UTC
Hm With all this talk of AT ships being fielded. they do seem limited in which ships are being used. Only the Malice was fielded multiple times & the Etana once (if I checked good) No other AT prize ships right? So what' s the reason for this? If I missed out an AT prize ship being fielded let me know Shocked

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

Mordirth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2015-08-24 19:56:04 UTC
Jandice Ymladris wrote:
Hm With all this talk of AT ships being fielded. they do seem limited in which ships are being used. Only the Malice was fielded multiple times & the Etana once (if I checked good) No other AT prize ships right? So what' s the reason for this? If I missed out an AT prize ship being fielded let me know Shocked



two main reasons are the insane fits of the etana and theneuts and the tank of the malice.
DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#65 - 2015-08-24 20:08:33 UTC
As a member of warlords and owner of 12 unique shis. Including those you have seen thistourney already. I agree that for their point value they are overpowered and i would love to see them either banned all together or increased in point value.

Some of us that use them agree with you all. Dont lump us in with pl wanting to have the uber advantage. Yes we will use them. We want to win. However i would have some fun and waaayyyyyyy less stress if we didnt use them!!!
Mordirth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2015-08-24 20:55:29 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
As a member of warlords and owner of 12 unique shis. Including those you have seen thistourney already. I agree that for their point value they are overpowered and i would love to see them either banned all together or increased in point value.

Some of us that use them agree with you all. Dont lump us in with pl wanting to have the uber advantage. Yes we will use them. We want to win. However i would have some fun and waaayyyyyyy less stress if we didnt use them!!!



Understandable if there are rules you use them, i don't begrudge you this. Much respect for realizing the problem and admitting it.
Theon Severasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2015-08-24 20:57:17 UTC
Jandice Ymladris wrote:
Hm With all this talk of AT ships being fielded. they do seem limited in which ships are being used. Only the Malice was fielded multiple times & the Etana once (if I checked good) No other AT prize ships right? So what's the reason for this? If I missed out an AT prize ship being fielded let me know Shocked


Some of it's down to meta, for example the Utu has been fielded (and lost) by PL in a previous tournament, but with drones being limited to T1 I highly doubt that we will see one fielded in this tournament. Some of it is down to the actual strength of an AT hull, for example the Mimir is pretty much unanimously known to be ****, and doesn't fill any role that can be outperformed by anything else. And then of course there is the fact that teams may not have access to other AT ships, or be willing to risk the ones that they do have.
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#68 - 2015-08-24 21:18:08 UTC
Hm, so it's actually not a case of AT ships being too powerful compared to others, but rather that a select few AT ships are just too strong compared to the point cost?

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

Mordirth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2015-08-24 21:34:17 UTC
Jandice Ymladris wrote:
Hm, so it's actually not a case of AT ships being too powerful compared to others, but rather that a select few AT ships are just too strong compared to the point cost?



No, almost every ship across the board is more powerful than their counter part. But rather that the meta doesn't allow for some ships and others aren't worth the risk of cost fielding them. For example the drone meta of last year is gone, drones are gimpish now so the utu probably won't be fielded. Yet neuts are still extremely powerful so malices will still be seen.
Serena Greyskull
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#70 - 2015-08-24 21:35:29 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
As a member of warlords and owner of 12 unique shis. Including those you have seen thistourney already. I agree that for their point value they are overpowered and i would love to see them either banned all together or increased in point value.

Some of us that use them agree with you all. Dont lump us in with pl wanting to have the uber advantage. Yes we will use them. We want to win. However i would have some fun and waaayyyyyyy less stress if we didnt use them!!!


Lol, the hypocrisy of you guys calling us out for having an uber advantage while running 2 teams is astounding.

For the record, i did the math. The best unique assault frigates are worth 2x the point cost of t2 assault frigates. The worst are about 1.3.

The best cruisers are worth about 1.5x the point cost of other t2 cruisers, with the exception of the etana which is pricelss compared to the others (who own them again?)

In terms of making them a higher point cost for next year, this potentially might be an answer. But people won't use them if you make them too high.

If you think CCP hasn't thought about this before, youre mental. Why do you think they distributed the AT ships more fairly? The more teams that have them, the less advantage the big teams have. It just takes time.

The only really OP ship that no other team has proper access to is the adrestia, and thats virtually useless this year, so I think people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

What needs fixing is the goddamn collusion rules so we can have a fair tournament.

Remember, we didnt bring ANY unique ships against any of the lower tier teams. They had as much chance based on shiptypes as everyone else.
Mordirth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2015-08-24 21:43:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Mordirth
Serena Greyskull wrote:
DHB WildCat wrote:
As a member of warlords and owner of 12 unique shis. Including those you have seen thistourney already. I agree that for their point value they are overpowered and i would love to see them either banned all together or increased in point value.

Some of us that use them agree with you all. Dont lump us in with pl wanting to have the uber advantage. Yes we will use them. We want to win. However i would have some fun and waaayyyyyyy less stress if we didnt use them!!!


Lol, the hypocrisy of you guys calling us out for having an uber advantage while running 2 teams is astounding.

For the record, i did the math. The best unique assault frigates are worth 2x the point cost of t2 assault frigates. The worst are about 1.3.

The best cruisers are worth about 1.5x the point cost of other t2 cruisers, with the exception of the etana which is pricelss compared to the others (who own them again?)

In terms of making them a higher point cost for next year, this potentially might be an answer. But people won't use them if you make them too high.

If you think CCP hasn't thought about this before, youre mental. Why do you think they distributed the AT ships more fairly? The more teams that have them, the less advantage the big teams have. It just takes time.

The only really OP ship that no other team has proper access to is the adrestia, and thats virtually useless this year, so I think people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

What needs fixing is the goddamn collusion rules so we can have a fair tournament.

Remember, we didnt bring ANY unique ships against any of the lower tier teams. They had as much chance based on shiptypes as everyone else.


You did the math? can we see it? id love to see exactly how you calculated this. Im being honest.

As to why they might be distributing the ships more, it could be to make people want to do the AT because while they can't get top place maybe they can still get something?

Also if you can *PROVE* that there is something against the rules going on or something underhanded which CCP disagrees with then yes something should be done, but if you cannot PROVE it then nothing should be done. Which btw i would also like to see your proof since you so obviously think something should be done.
Hanns
Wildcard.
#72 - 2015-08-24 22:22:18 UTC
Guys I just want to apologise for Mr Rive's bad posting ok, thanks Shocked
Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
Alliance. Now. Please.
#73 - 2015-08-24 22:35:24 UTC
Mordirth wrote:

Also if you can *PROVE* that there is something against the rules going on or something underhanded which CCP disagrees with then yes something should be done, but if you cannot PROVE it then nothing should be done. Which btw i would also like to see your proof since you so obviously think something should be done.


Proof comes next weekend when the two teams meet, despite heavy use of extremely expensive AT ships throughout the lower stages of the tournament you're going to see neither team field them, despite the massive advantages they offer as discussed for 4 pages. If any are actually fielded they will miraculously survive as they kite to match end. Then both teams will pull them out again until they meet again in the final. Other than a confession, you're not likely to get better proof.

Maybe they'll call the ships as bans and sigh in exasperation at the 'epic' fight that could have been had.
Serena Greyskull
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#74 - 2015-08-24 23:04:23 UTC
Mordirth wrote:
Serena Greyskull wrote:
DHB WildCat wrote:
As a member of warlords and owner of 12 unique shis. Including those you have seen thistourney already. I agree that for their point value they are overpowered and i would love to see them either banned all together or increased in point value.

Some of us that use them agree with you all. Dont lump us in with pl wanting to have the uber advantage. Yes we will use them. We want to win. However i would have some fun and waaayyyyyyy less stress if we didnt use them!!!


Lol, the hypocrisy of you guys calling us out for having an uber advantage while running 2 teams is astounding.

For the record, i did the math. The best unique assault frigates are worth 2x the point cost of t2 assault frigates. The worst are about 1.3.

The best cruisers are worth about 1.5x the point cost of other t2 cruisers, with the exception of the etana which is pricelss compared to the others (who own them again?)

In terms of making them a higher point cost for next year, this potentially might be an answer. But people won't use them if you make them too high.

If you think CCP hasn't thought about this before, youre mental. Why do you think they distributed the AT ships more fairly? The more teams that have them, the less advantage the big teams have. It just takes time.

The only really OP ship that no other team has proper access to is the adrestia, and thats virtually useless this year, so I think people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

What needs fixing is the goddamn collusion rules so we can have a fair tournament.

Remember, we didnt bring ANY unique ships against any of the lower tier teams. They had as much chance based on shiptypes as everyone else.


You did the math? can we see it? id love to see exactly how you calculated this. Im being honest.

As to why they might be distributing the ships more, it could be to make people want to do the AT because while they can't get top place maybe they can still get something?

Also if you can *PROVE* that there is something against the rules going on or something underhanded which CCP disagrees with then yes something should be done, but if you cannot PROVE it then nothing should be done. Which btw i would also like to see your proof since you so obviously think something should be done.


The points cost I did on a piece of paper which ive lost. If you take the malice as an example though, you can see why a heavily tanked sentinel mixed with a heavily tanked tackle frigate is worth at least 1.5x the points.

As for the collusion stuff, nothing will get done about it until after the tournament anyway, and then we will have more proof of it too. It's too late for them to backtrack on it, because they're already both in the finals effectively at this point.

Wait till after the tournament. People are getting sick of this, I expect ccp to come out with a rules clarification for next year.
Centra Spike
Perkone
Caldari State
#75 - 2015-08-24 23:09:50 UTC
Let just use max skill characters and run the AT on Sisi so every team can fly the exact same thing.

Follow us @PLIRC!

Mordirth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2015-08-24 23:39:46 UTC
In regards to collusion, i understand it is hard to prove but without an event showing collusion it would be like judging guilty before any crime happened (psychopass) and that can't really be done yet nor should it be done. But if it does happen a extreme penalty must be dealt such that it will never happen again. More rules should be put out regardless.

As to the malice for example, you said 1.5x the points for a malice, but i believe this is to low because you do get a curse worth of neuts and at a faster cycle with more tank. i think it would more around 2.5. for the amount of pure ownage it brings to the battlefield. But that is what makes this part subjective based on what you judge about it and no matter what you decide would probably need twinking in future iterations.
Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
Alliance. Now. Please.
#77 - 2015-08-25 00:36:58 UTC
Mordirth wrote:
In regards to collusion, i understand it is hard to prove but without an event showing collusion it would be like judging guilty before any crime happened (psychopass) and that can't really be done yet nor should it be done. But if it does happen a extreme penalty must be dealt such that it will never happen again. More rules should be put out regardless.


I seem to recall them being banned from an AT for doing it before.

Personally, I'm not so fussed. I just don't think it's exciting to watch for the spectators, especially when they put so little effort into hiding it.
Mordirth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2015-08-25 02:46:43 UTC
Captain Thunk wrote:
Mordirth wrote:
In regards to collusion, i understand it is hard to prove but without an event showing collusion it would be like judging guilty before any crime happened (psychopass) and that can't really be done yet nor should it be done. But if it does happen a extreme penalty must be dealt such that it will never happen again. More rules should be put out regardless.


I seem to recall them being banned from an AT for doing it before.

Personally, I'm not so fussed. I just don't think it's exciting to watch for the spectators, especially when they put so little effort into hiding it.


If they did it before and are continuing to do it then clearly the punishment wasn't harsh enough ;p
Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#79 - 2015-08-25 13:46:06 UTC
The malice is really the only ship that is drastically overpowered for it's point value.
Mordirth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2015-08-25 16:17:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Mordirth
Shamis Orzoz wrote:
The malice is really the only ship that is drastically overpowered for it's point value.



etana. also the malice is basically the only ship being brought consistently and creating the problems every average viewer who knows anything about eve can see. so much anger about the malice on the twitch chat after camel v exodus.