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Most Important MORE USERS how ?
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Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#21 - 2015-08-24 00:25:06 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:
unidenify wrote:
maybe follow other MMO by offer unlimited time for trial account, and need to pay price of full game to upgrade from trial?

And, maybe add more skill to restricted so Trial can't use them in order to encourage them to buy account and play


I'd abuse that to have unlimited free spies. Spies don't need much for skills.

Which was clearly Nitshe's intention. He is truly a diabolical genius.

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#22 - 2015-08-24 04:46:17 UTC
Dror wrote:
The trial idea is already plausible, because the amount of open clients is limited..

but.. that's no implication that the game would get a bunch of subs. There are plenty of posts about this, but the most helpful are these:

  • There are plenty of studies on motivation and reward (including in video games), and SP progression fulfills almost none of that: socialization, competence, and freedom. It doesn't fulfill socialization because of the low value of fresh characters (for corps and gameplay), nor competence because of the limitations on piloting ability and ship selection, nor the freedom and autonomy of gathering and piloting great ships.

    • Would it not seem disgusting for the playstyle trait that enjoys mastery and competition, that stations are empty because of limited marketing and industry SP, that null discussion's exclamations of boredom would be simply mitigated by alliances having enough fully-functional characters for fulfilling fleet requirements (and thus challenging sov efficiently, and at all), and that the game might seem unworthy of the sub if there's not enough budgeted for getting a character from the bazaar? "Yet there's so much gameplay," it might would be said, because there's nothing more than surveying the MMO and having no role in it because the development design disallows it.

  • Games like Star Citizen that would actively provide the same benefits of role fulfillment and would set that gameplay up without monetization gating.

    • In other words, if the game doesn't provide a competitive scene, those potential subs will probably find other games. Competitive here is summarized in tandem with the other forms of motivation and reward that are mentioned, including competence ("Does this support eager learning and feelings of relevance?") and freedom.


    I was going to try to disagree with a premise hiding in here or some of the logic or something. Unfortunately, I quickly realized that while this is syntatically English it manages to convey absolutely no meaning beyond competence in buzzwords and strong opinion.

    So drop that. I'll just say something else entirely.

    Having new subs is indeed a Good Thing, especially if they stick around. Breaking the game for new subs, however, is a Bad Thing since it drives away the base. Walking that line is indeed hard, but honestly I don't think CCP is doing a bad job right now.
    Dror
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #23 - 2015-08-24 09:12:31 UTC
    Zhilia Mann wrote:
    I was going to try to disagree with a premise hiding in here or some of the logic or something. Unfortunately, I quickly realized that while this is syntatically English it manages to convey absolutely no meaning beyond competence in buzzwords and strong opinion.

    So drop that. I'll just say something else entirely.

    Having new subs is indeed a Good Thing, especially if they stick around. Breaking the game for new subs, however, is a Bad Thing since it drives away the base. Walking that line is indeed hard, but honestly I don't think CCP is doing a bad job right now.

    Feel free, because those ideas are sourced from scientific literature. It actually seems as if there is no rebuttal, else one would have been said in one of the threads with this topic.

    The remainder of the reply is tripe.

    "SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
    Mike Voidstar
    Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
    #24 - 2015-08-24 09:51:39 UTC
    There may be less subs now, but I doubt there are all that many fewer players.

    Many recent changes have devalued the value and need for alts, and I would bet that's the largest part of what we are losing.

    I find that to be a good thing in itself, because alts are one of the biggest reasons we can't have nice things. Every change has to be filtered through a 'how will alts break the intent'. The problem there is that it reduces everything to mindless shooting, because any other form of profit through competition can be gamed through the use of alts---when you are playing all sides at the same time, you are bound to win.

    That said, if more subs are what you are after then a change in the direction of the games development away from all direct PvP all the time and toward making EVE an online world again with more than the fiction section of their website will help. All those nasty things the PvP crowd hates like walking in stations and allowing for more security in building and growing things.

    Pure PVP games have always been popular, but ones that grow are the ones that foster teamwork. EVE isn't pure PvP, and it actively undercuts building teamwork or community. It worships screwing over your 'friends', while placing the most materialistically profitable activities into ships intended to be prey. That makes it extremely niche in terms of retaining players.

    EvE is designed as a snake eating it's own tail.
    Donnachadh
    United Allegiance of Undesirables
    #25 - 2015-08-24 13:59:52 UTC
    Mike Voidstar wrote:
    There may be less subs now, but I doubt there are all that many fewer players.

    This ^^^^ has been my experience as well. With the jump range changes and jump fatigue many of the cap ship pilots do not need as many accounts to house their cyno alts all over the EvE universe so they are letting those subs expire. In my prime game time we are down from about 20,000 characters online on an average day to about 16,000 to 17,000 and I wonder how many of those lost were cyno alts? I know that my son has dropped 3 accounts and a friend of mine has dropped 5 accounts and all of those characters were cyno alts.

    Before we can get all up in arms about changes needed to keep accounts / characters in the game we need to understand how, where and why the character count has dropped. Given that the affects of the sov changes are really just starting to settle into the game as a whole I would side with them going away because they were cyno alts that are no longer needed.

    I still am on the -1 side to your OP idea as there are to many ways this could be abused to the detriment of the game, that and I am not convinced that you are correct despite all your "scientific" mumbo jumbo.
    Zan Shiro
    Doomheim
    #26 - 2015-08-24 14:34:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
    Dror wrote:
    The trial idea is already plausible, because the amount of open clients is limited..

    but.. that's no implication that the game would get a bunch of subs. There are plenty of posts about this, but the most helpful are these:

  • There are plenty of studies on motivation and reward (including in video games), and SP progression fulfills almost none of that: socialization, competence, and freedom. It doesn't fulfill socialization because of the low value of fresh characters (for corps and gameplay), nor competence because of the limitations on piloting ability and ship selection, nor the freedom and autonomy of gathering and piloting great ships.

    • Would it not seem disgusting for the playstyle trait that enjoys mastery and competition, that stations are empty because of limited marketing and industry SP, that null discussion's exclamations of boredom would be simply mitigated by alliances having enough fully-functional characters for fulfilling fleet requirements (and thus challenging sov efficiently, and at all), and that the game might seem unworthy of the sub if there's not enough budgeted for getting a character from the bazaar? "Yet there's so much gameplay," it might would be said, because there's nothing more than surveying the MMO and having no role in it because the development design disallows it.

  • Games like Star Citizen would actively provide the same benefits of role fulfillment and would set that gameplay up without monetization gating.

    • In other words, if the game doesn't provide a competitive scene, those potential subs will probably find other games. Competitive here is summarized in tandem with the other forms of motivation and reward that are mentioned, including competence ("Does this support eager learning and feelings of relevance?") and freedom.



    you'd have to link some of these studies for starters. Ones with data and methods used explained in detail and available for download. I am studying data science. One of our basic laws is research must be reproducible. IE....give us the data and the code used. One of the key things we look for is confounders. Something that looks like its linked...but its not. I've seen science research, talking lfe or death implications....suffer from improper analysis.

    I'd also like to see its age break downs. See I have a theory....its the young bloods who do not know of life before "dlc" that drive this drivel really. I started gaming on a commodore 64 when it was new from the then viable company. Many years of gaming the take away basically. I remember when games had everything you could ever have in them.....day 1. In the "base" game.

    How to unlock it? Lots of hardwork and dedication. I unlocked Tofu in Resident Evil 2 on a PS1 loooong ago for example. Google how to do this. its not easy. Today's DLC crap....this would be a cough up a few $ for it really.

    I have seen this crap kill racing games. I long for the days of GT1 and 2. Rare exotic car...wnat it bad enough you run the races to get it. Not cough up $ for it. Also long for older FPS days. Want that skin? that weapon? Spam that game till you unlocked it. This mindset seems to be more in tune with older gamers. Younger gamers seem to be the DLC it crowd. Not all of course...but that's me eyeballing it.


    Secondly what star citizen are you playing that isn't monetized gaming. It already has tiered rewards for backers. Over several pledge drives. Rewards that to me incur some benefit to actual game play. They are far from cosmetic for damn sure. Now when production SC is going to have to make a hard call. Make these exclusives to backers stay exclusive...or not. Tough call....as well I missed a few good backer deals. Do I want to be head to head with the peeps who got these....nope. I'd want them too. So do they make me happy an tell backers umm, yeah, your exclusive not going to be exclusive anymore. Or do they tell me sucks to be you,.....you didn't back us day1. Can't wait to see how that plays out tbh,,,,
    Frostys Virpio
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #27 - 2015-08-24 15:19:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Frostys Virpio
    Webvan wrote:
    Nitshe wrote:
    This should be the main priority.
    eh no. Main priority should be making the game outstanding for Vets so they will go out and tell people how much fun EVE is so that they try it out. As for extending trials, EVE had 2 week trials for years and years, during a time of growth. Anything over a month will only be an abuse to the game and make EVE far from outstanding thus limiting new players as Vets just grumble. Games that put newbies as a priority usually fail. CCP seems to be headed in generally the right direction.


    Problem with an outstanding game for vets is how they often also being poor games for newbies. I'm not saying it's impossible but vets telling their friend to try it out won't work if they friend has to deal with a metric ass ton of BS before getting to the outstanding part that the vet appreciate.

    Every MMO wants more subs but it's not easy to pull off no matter what line you try to follow. If it was easy, they would all have have millions of subs.
    Nitshe
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #28 - 2015-08-24 17:29:23 UTC
    you guys genius :)
    Zhilia Mann
    Tide Way Out Productions
    #29 - 2015-08-24 18:45:28 UTC
    Dror wrote:
    Zhilia Mann wrote:
    I was going to try to disagree with a premise hiding in here or some of the logic or something. Unfortunately, I quickly realized that while this is syntatically English it manages to convey absolutely no meaning beyond competence in buzzwords and strong opinion.

    So drop that. I'll just say something else entirely.

    Having new subs is indeed a Good Thing, especially if they stick around. Breaking the game for new subs, however, is a Bad Thing since it drives away the base. Walking that line is indeed hard, but honestly I don't think CCP is doing a bad job right now.

    Feel free, because those ideas are sourced from scientific literature. It actually seems as if there is no rebuttal, else one would have been said in one of the threads with this topic.

    The remainder of the reply is tripe.


    I'm dead serious. The majority of the words you strung together don't mean anything in this context. They are words that management consultants and grad students use, often quite differently, to describe things in specific contexts that may and may not apply. Without actually, you know, citing a study or two or bothering to define your terms you've communicated nothing. Not "nothing of value", literally nothing.

    But sure, for the sake of argument, let's assume that the amorphous "research" has indeed been done and that some sort of theoretical framework has been applied to the data to explain the observed phenomena. The categories used make sense in the context of the study and seem to offer some sort of predictions. Maybe we can even identify some real correlation coeffecient that isn't entirely arbitrary -- but let's face it, this isn't real science and so that is maddeningly tricky to do well.

    Even if all that were true it wouldn't add up a definite prescriptive formula for Eve. Until we were to satisfy ourselves that Eve fit into the theoretical framework of the aforementioned studies then it would be a mistake to even begin to draw conclusions about what ought or ought not be done to change the game. The fact that Eve often defines itself as explicitly not like, say, Wow further complicates matters and likely renders the entire conversation moot.

    tl;dr: You can't just march in and say that some ill-defined "research" justifies changes without doing a hell of a lot of legwork getting from one to the other.
    Nitshe
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #30 - 2015-08-24 19:06:14 UTC
    Guys let stay on topic.

    I feel like we can definitely use some free gaming. Like I said High sec limited and Skill Limited will be fine. We paid users wont be affected and this people will be learning the game and grow into high sec and eventually pay for moving on to lov sec null sec or wormholes,

    Of course there are spies and haters and some bull people but that is something to discuss later.

    Main ponit is 10K-20K more people in to this game might be more fun for us. I see lot of recruitment channels empty. with school starting we will get new people but it is perfect time to start some free gaming and get them into start the game.
    Dror
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #31 - 2015-08-24 19:27:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Dror
    Zhilia Mann wrote:

    Actually, that post very clearly lists a question, "Does [SP] support eager learning and feelings of relevance?" In other words, does it promote immediate depth of play.. or feelings of confidence and competitiveness?

    Does it promote item-filled stations and autonomy and freedom?

    "SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
    Horus V
    The Destined
    #32 - 2015-08-24 21:26:59 UTC
    1.Repair corp mechanics
    2.Make scaning sigs much more difficult and more engaging (actually hide some sigs from this stuipid overlay completely)
    3.Redesign stars so youd see it getting smaller as you warp away
    4.Make eve more realistic and explain why things work in a certain way. Saying that the world is different from ours and phisics does not apply in a fantasy waterlike space does more harm than good for those who are looking for scifi experience.
    5.high res graphics
    6.new nullsec on the other side of wh in a different galaxy. Seperated small seperated isle of claimable space of few stars here and there(few thousand total) Perfect for smaller alliances. If ccp continue to deny access to sov for anybody who doesnt belong to big coalitions then the game will suffer more and more.
    7.And the biggest one - WIS .

    V
    Kaarous Aldurald
    Black Hydra Consortium.
    #33 - 2015-08-24 21:42:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
    Horus V wrote:

    3.Redesign stars so youd see it getting smaller as you warp away
    4.Make eve more realistic and explain why things work in a certain way. Saying that the world is different from ours and phisics does not apply in a fantasy waterlike space does more harm than good for those who are looking for scifi experience.


    These two being next to one another makes me laugh.

    Oh, and "fluidic physics" is pretty much a perfect explanation to anyone with a clue. Just sayin'.

    "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

    One of ours, ten of theirs.

    Best Meltdown Ever.
    Noragen Neirfallas
    Emotional Net Loss
    #34 - 2015-08-25 02:21:46 UTC
    Nitshe we the people of New Eden will not stand for your evil and will not provide you with an army of ALT's for free that are completely disposable so you can commit further crimes against us. Our Legal Crusade in the Court of Crime and Punishment (CoCaP) will continue to weed out your ALT's wherever they may be.

    We will defend our universe, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight in the wormholes, we shall fight in the corporations, we shall fight in the Local Chat and Forums, we shall never surrender

    Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

    Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

    Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

    ISD Buldath favorite ISD

    '"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
    Bob Maths
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #35 - 2015-08-25 08:57:26 UTC
    Nitshe wrote:
    Hi Guys,

    PRESS LIKE IF YOU LIKE THE IDEA MORE USERS and DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT>

    I want to see more new users coming into the game. I feel lot of systems are empty.

    I don't know what can be done but maybe 6 months trial with some certain skill limit or whatever is the best choice. People need to play the game free a little so they enjoy it and pay for it. 30 day trial doesn't help. A lot to learn and get use to this game. Also there should be corp that accepts new users and take them around mining, shooting etc to teach people this game. also we enjoy the game when channels full space has more people.

    Lot of game's do free gaming these days with shop that people buy extra modules skin guns etc.

    I'm not saying do the same or not putting ideas but WE NEED MORE USERS MORE PEOPLE so You need to give longer trial or skill limit trials like 5Million skill limit etc and do some advertisement. Need to block people using this trials to create 10 people mining fleets lol. More people, more fun, more money for eve, more content, more workers.

    Lot of important aspects tied up to this.

    This should be the main priority.


    I don't know if it's been said but... just look at below my picture.
    Noragen Neirfallas
    Emotional Net Loss
    #36 - 2015-08-25 10:40:12 UTC
    To get out of character now, once I train my toon to the skills I desire I can now play for free? This would actually result in less subs not more. Just saying. -1 Terrible idea

    Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

    Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

    Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

    ISD Buldath favorite ISD

    '"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
    Nitshe
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #37 - 2015-08-25 12:15:40 UTC
    IDEA question is HOW WE get more users invited to the game ?


    guys are out of topic specially Noragen Neirfallas.

    If you think not good then you need to provide idea how to gain more users. you just talking no i don't like this but no idea or resolution like person that has no imagination or creativity. I don't like this I'm going away my brain level is only enough for not liking it lol :P Ideas guys we sharing ideas here. you Noragen Neirfallas you just a hater. move on.
    Nitshe
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #38 - 2015-08-25 12:31:18 UTC
    I know your corp and I love eve university i think you guys are best think happen to this game. when we hire person from eve university they know what they doing and ready. I wish every user graduates from eve university.


    Bob Maths wrote:
    Nitshe wrote:
    Hi Guys,

    PRESS LIKE IF YOU LIKE THE IDEA MORE USERS and DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT>

    I want to see more new users coming into the game. I feel lot of systems are empty.

    I don't know what can be done but maybe 6 months trial with some certain skill limit or whatever is the best choice. People need to play the game free a little so they enjoy it and pay for it. 30 day trial doesn't help. A lot to learn and get use to this game. Also there should be corp that accepts new users and take them around mining, shooting etc to teach people this game. also we enjoy the game when channels full space has more people.

    Lot of game's do free gaming these days with shop that people buy extra modules skin guns etc.

    I'm not saying do the same or not putting ideas but WE NEED MORE USERS MORE PEOPLE so You need to give longer trial or skill limit trials like 5Million skill limit etc and do some advertisement. Need to block people using this trials to create 10 people mining fleets lol. More people, more fun, more money for eve, more content, more workers.

    Lot of important aspects tied up to this.

    This should be the main priority.


    I don't know if it's been said but... just look at below my picture.
    Noragen Neirfallas
    Emotional Net Loss
    #39 - 2015-08-25 12:32:08 UTC
    Nitshe wrote:
    IDEA question is HOW WE get more users invited to the game ?


    guys are out of topic specially Noragen Neirfallas.

    If you think not good then you need to provide idea how to gain more users. you just talking no i don't like this but no idea or resolution like person that has no imagination or creativity. I don't like this I'm going away my brain level is only enough for not liking it lol :P Ideas guys we sharing ideas here. you Noragen Neirfallas you just a hater. move on.

    Your honeyed words will fool nobody Nitshe. This is all a carefully crafted ploy to create even more awoxing, corp theiving and generally nefarious accounts then you already have. Your evil truly knows no bounds.

    OOC
    Features and ideas is for features and ideas. If you wanna brainstorm GD is likely the place for that. Unless you wanna brainstorm on a particular item specific to one group in which case do what I did and create a thread there and have it moved to F&I once you have your feature or idea crafted. It is also useful to get feedback on the proposed idea and to alter it to a more well rounded idea. In the meanwhile your idea is still terrible on many levels and pleading for other people to think for you on a new idea instead of owning up to the terrible idea isn't winning you any points. How about if you really wanna help out with new subs you get down and help out new toons as they enter eve and leave the bringing of trial players into the game in the more then capable PR department of CCP. One person pointed out eve uni. I personally am involved with this group right now that has seen more then 100 characters over the age of 20 days now playing eve on a semi daily basis (they have at least logged in once since passing 20 days). That's where new subs are at.

    Back in character
    Now back to the shadows with you. We will not stand for your evil here

    Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

    Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

    Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

    ISD Buldath favorite ISD

    '"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
    Nitshe
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #40 - 2015-08-25 12:36:22 UTC
    So don't you think this new users need more then 30 days trial ? are they learning the game in 30 days ? Talk about that. they liking the game ? put your experience here.what did they said about the game ? are they liking it ? how long trial will help them where is all this ideas since you working with them ?




    Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
    Nitshe wrote:
    IDEA question is HOW WE get more users invited to the game ?


    guys are out of topic specially Noragen Neirfallas.

    If you think not good then you need to provide idea how to gain more users. you just talking no i don't like this but no idea or resolution like person that has no imagination or creativity. I don't like this I'm going away my brain level is only enough for not liking it lol :P Ideas guys we sharing ideas here. you Noragen Neirfallas you just a hater. move on.

    Your honeyed words will fool nobody Nitshe. This is all a carefully crafted ploy to create even more awoxing, corp theiving and generally nefarious accounts then you already have. Your evil truly knows no bounds.

    OOC
    Features and ideas is for features and ideas. If you wanna brainstorm GD is likely the place for that. Unless you wanna brainstorm on a particular item specific to one group in which case do what I did and create a thread there and have it moved to F&I once you have your feature or idea crafted. It is also useful to get feedback on the proposed idea and to alter it to a more well rounded idea. In the meanwhile your idea is still terrible on many levels and pleading for other people to think for you on a new idea instead of owning up to the terrible idea isn't winning you any points. How about if you really wanna help out with new subs you get down and help out new toons as they enter eve and leave the bringing of trial players into the game in the more then capable PR department of CCP. One person pointed out eve uni. I personally am involved with this group right now that has seen more then 100 characters over the age of 20 days now playing eve on a semi daily basis (they have at least logged in once since passing 20 days). That's where new subs are at.

    Back in character
    Now back to the shadows with you. We will not stand for your evil here
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