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Buff resist rigs
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afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2015-08-21 18:46:44 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
afkalt wrote:
I know, I already said that the only point in buffer is to not get alphad. However as fights scale this pretty quickly becomes pointless as it is DPS race to drop the enemy DPS to the point you can hold reps, there's just not enough buffer available on subcaps to make it viable.

The point is that buffing resists serves only to double down on how powerful logi is, it would make them even more oppressive in small scale battles.


You base everything around logi, but what about solo play where buffer gives you that extra 10-20 secs that that one resist mod wouldn't.

btw logi is OP as hell and needs a serious nerf.


In solo play, the buffer rig is meant to be more powerful. If you have no logi, then yes more buffer is kind as you have to last on the HP you already have from the start. Do you think resist rigs should be a better buffer rig than the raw buffer rigs?


It's almost as if the two rigs serve distinct purposes batman!!!
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2015-08-22 02:19:06 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Why do you think t1 hardeners grant 50% resist?


Well they are active and can eb neuted out. They also have a different fitting cost.

The rigs are close to the level of the passive mods which I think is fine.

The rigs boost sig radius or ship mass. I think that's a worse penalty than the capacitor cost. Also, the rigs give less than the amplifiers/energized membranes after you factor in the reinforcing skills.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#43 - 2015-08-22 04:12:16 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Why do you think t1 hardeners grant 50% resist?


Well they are active and can eb neuted out. They also have a different fitting cost.

The rigs are close to the level of the passive mods which I think is fine.

The rigs boost sig radius or ship mass. I think that's a worse penalty than the capacitor cost. Also, the rigs give less than the amplifiers/energized membranes after you factor in the reinforcing skills.


It's almost as if rigs are not the same as hardeners, amplifiers, or energized membranes. They have different strengths and weaknesses.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2015-08-22 04:19:24 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
They have different strengths and weaknesses.

A lot more weakness than strength.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#45 - 2015-08-22 05:15:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
afkalt wrote:
I know, I already said that the only point in buffer is to not get alphad. However as fights scale this pretty quickly becomes pointless as it is DPS race to drop the enemy DPS to the point you can hold reps, there's just not enough buffer available on subcaps to make it viable.

The point is that buffing resists serves only to double down on how powerful logi is, it would make them even more oppressive in small scale battles.


You base everything around logi, but what about solo play where buffer gives you that extra 10-20 secs that that one resist mod wouldn't.

btw logi is OP as hell and needs a serious nerf.


In solo play, the buffer rig is meant to be more powerful. If you have no logi, then yes more buffer is kind as you have to last on the HP you already have from the start. Do you think resist rigs should be a better buffer rig than the raw buffer rigs?



Not better, but at least an alternative. Resist rigs are there to plug a hole, but with stacking penalties and the drawbacks, the go to rig of choice will almost always be the buffer rig unless you're in a gang where you know logi is available. The resist rigs would be more desirable in either situation (solo or gang) if the resist rigs are either: A) not stacking penalized, B) scale with compensation skills, or C) offer more base bonus percentage than the current.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#46 - 2015-08-22 05:16:32 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
afkalt wrote:
No, because you're forgetting how hard resists make logi repping multiply. Ever 0.1% makes the absolute values of HP repped by logi that much harder to re-remove.

In other words, buffer doesn't scale with logi, resists do.

This was why the hull bonuses dropped from 5% to 4%/level too.


Nerf RR.


This too!!
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#47 - 2015-08-22 09:19:09 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
They have different strengths and weaknesses.

A lot more weakness than strength.


That is intentional. The fact that you cannot understand this really is beyond me.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2015-08-22 16:50:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
FT Diomedes wrote:
That is intentional. The fact that you cannot understand this really is beyond me.

Are you saying that the resist rigs are intended to be less powerful and therefore a less popular choice than the buffer rigs? Perhaps likewise it is intentional that the resist modules are more powerful and therefore more popular than the percentage buffer modules?

I don't see any reason for that to be the case but I've also never heard any indication that it is intended to be this way. It is this way, and I don't think it's supposed to be. This whole post is an attempt to convince people that it is that way, and I merely assume they will disagree with it if they realize as much. But so far, all of the flak I'm getting seems to come from folks who perceive the resist rigs to be just as useful if not more useful than the buffer rigs.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2015-08-22 19:25:37 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
That is intentional. The fact that you cannot understand this really is beyond me.

Are you saying that the resist rigs are intended to be less powerful and therefore a less popular choice than the buffer rigs? Perhaps likewise it is intentional that the resist modules are more powerful and therefore more popular than the percentage buffer modules?

I don't see any reason for that to be the case but I've also never heard any indication that it is intended to be this way. It is this way, and I don't think it's supposed to be. This whole post is an attempt to convince people that it is that way, and I merely assume they will disagree with it if they realize as much. But so far, all of the flak I'm getting seems to come from folks who perceive the resist rigs to be just as useful if not more useful than the buffer rigs.




The resist rigs are useful. In my opinion, humble as it may be, the resist rigs are balanced and working properly. If the buffer rigs were changed to have proper stacking penalties or be changed from % based to an amount base then I beleive that the tanking rigs would all be reasonably balanced. Perhaps some calibration cost adjustments but that's it.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2015-08-22 19:35:39 UTC
I'll go for either one. I just feel that resist rigs are too weak compared to buffer rigs. I'm sure the logs agree with me on this one--players don't really use resist rigs very much.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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