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[Galatea] First batch of sov capture iterations

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bigbillthaboss3
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#901 - 2015-08-21 14:15:15 UTC  |  Edited by: bigbillthaboss3
afkalt wrote:

Let's assume you get to the node event, it is a race to capture them. Provi will take a node in 4 minutes, attackers will take 24 minutes. You're in a race with people tagging objectives SIX times faster than you.



Speaking hypothetically regarding a node event and an attacking force consisting of 300 troll ceptors (as I stated a few comments back):

That gang just Entosis'd every system in a region, and let's say they had a ~50% success rate. Now the nodes pop up - the defenders can only focus on so many nodes at one time. The attackers send one troll ceptor to each node for each system. Can you see where I am going with this? I do not feel like having to type out every cause/effect that would result.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#902 - 2015-08-21 14:23:49 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
But then it is a case of sheer numbers winning the day, which doesn't really do much with regard to the mechanic itself or the hulls involved.

It'll be interesting either way.


e: I wager should you have bothered, you could have steamrollered provi in dominion sov a hell of a lot faster than you'll ever manage in Aegis.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#903 - 2015-08-21 14:28:27 UTC
Back then they despised Role-Playing. Roll Thus, there was no reason to attempt it.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

bigbillthaboss3
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#904 - 2015-08-21 14:30:08 UTC
afkalt wrote:

e: I wager should you have bothered, you could have steamrollered provi in dominion sov a hell of a lot faster than you'll ever manage in Aegis.


No. Taking sov in dominion requires immense mobilization, large numbers and dps, grinding that lasts for days etc. With this new system it is completely feasible to fit out a gang of interceptors, fly from one side of the galazy to the other in an hours time (or less), RF everything, and be home in time for dinner.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#905 - 2015-08-21 14:31:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
afkalt wrote:
e: I wager should you have bothered, you could have steamrollered provi in dominion sov a hell of a lot faster than you'll ever manage in Aegis.


Not possible. Simply not enough hours in the day to grind that many structures under Dominion in under 2 weeks. Remember, when PL/NCdot went on their massive 24-hr reconquista in the middle the of the Fountain war, that was due to sov drops.

edit to add: Also remember, under Dominion, to pop the TCU would require killing the ihub and flipping the station. So a minimum of 4-5 days.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#906 - 2015-08-21 14:39:35 UTC
Well, I'm not adverse to admitting I was wrong.

You have to admit, no matter what happens it's going to be very interesting.
Kouklichka
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#907 - 2015-08-21 15:06:10 UTC
afkalt wrote:
But then it is a case of sheer numbers winning the day, which doesn't really do much with regard to the mechanic itself or the hulls involved.

It'll be interesting either way.


e: I wager should you have bothered, you could have steamrollered provi in dominion sov a hell of a lot faster than you'll ever manage in Aegis.



How can you say that? in Dominion you had to bring capitals to grind the structures now all you need is interceptors and blockade the system from anything that will try to tackle them. The level of commitment in harassing the sov is way lower now, damaging the system index and hub upgrades that cost in the 45 bil isk and countless hours of manpower invested. Guess what they want kill-mails for doing the hub damage, soon there will be alliances doing just that. It won't be a game for Sov but just let's go make there life miserable and get those kill-mails.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#908 - 2015-08-21 15:09:36 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
*sigh* You as in your alliance, or any other alliance besides CONDI in CFC. You as in your person, your character has no significance to me in this context. Thank, though, for confirming that point. Roll
Of course we would, stop being ridiculous. It's these types of comments that make you "grr goons" types such a laughing stock.

Rivr Luzade wrote:
Ceptors cannot create any timer if driven off right away. Unless they are brought in such ridiculous numbers as previously hinted. Then, as stated, it does not matter if it's cruisrs, ceptors or BS.
Of course it matters, because the game is supposed to be entertaining for both sides. That's the #1 goal of sov. It's not currently because most of the players engaging in the mechanics are harassers because it's the absolute best choice. It's easy, low risk and difficult to prevent. That's why you like it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#909 - 2015-08-21 15:10:27 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
afkalt wrote:
e: I wager should you have bothered, you could have steamrollered provi in dominion sov a hell of a lot faster than you'll ever manage in Aegis.


Not possible. Simply not enough hours in the day to grind that many structures under Dominion in under 2 weeks. Remember, when PL/NCdot went on their massive 24-hr reconquista in the middle the of the Fountain war, that was due to sov drops.

edit to add: Also remember, under Dominion, to pop the TCU would require killing the ihub and flipping the station. So a minimum of 4-5 days.


And god know there is a shitload of stations in Provi.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#910 - 2015-08-21 15:18:21 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
*sigh* You as in your alliance, or any other alliance besides CONDI in CFC. You as in your person, your character has no significance to me in this context. Thank, though, for confirming that point. Roll
Of course we would, stop being ridiculous. It's these types of comments that make you "grr goons" types such a laughing stock.

Rivr Luzade wrote:
Ceptors cannot create any timer if driven off right away. Unless they are brought in such ridiculous numbers as previously hinted. Then, as stated, it does not matter if it's cruisrs, ceptors or BS.
Of course it matters, because the game is supposed to be entertaining for both sides. That's the #1 goal of sov. It's not currently because most of the players engaging in the mechanics are harassers because it's the absolute best choice. It's easy, low risk and difficult to prevent. That's why you like it.

I'd love to see that happening. FA proved beyond doubt that I am right in my assertion, and SMA is not better than FA.

Please do not forget that I am also part of a sov holding alliance. So far, I have been able to deal with the ceptors that came to our space. Most of them, however, were accompanied by a proper fleet.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#911 - 2015-08-21 16:11:06 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
I'd love to see that happening. FA proved beyond doubt that I am right in my assertion, and SMA is not better than FA.
The problem there is that FA collapsed within the Imperium. They didn't leave, find out they couldn't run an alliance then implode. Would it be tougher to survive outside the Imperium? Sure, that's why we're part of the group, because it's mutual beneficial. Does it mean we couldn't hold our own? Certainly not.

Rivr Luzade wrote:
Please do not forget that I am also part of a sov holding alliance. So far, I have been able to deal with the ceptors that came to our space. Most of them, however, were accompanied by a proper fleet.
Which is great, and how it should be. Now imagine you're only dealing with individual ceptors, chasing them off multiple times a day. Not so fun. Harassment should be possible but not preferebale to invasion.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#912 - 2015-08-21 16:15:12 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:

I'd love to see that happening. FA proved beyond doubt that I am right in my assertion, and SMA is not better than FA.

Please do not forget that I am also part of a sov holding alliance. So far, I have been able to deal with the ceptors that came to our space. Most of them, however, were accompanied by a proper fleet.


Nobody has used them on a war footing yet.
bigbillthaboss3
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#913 - 2015-08-21 17:12:51 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:

Please do not forget that I am also part of a sov holding alliance. So far, I have been able to deal with the ceptors that came to our space. Most of them, however, were accompanied by a proper fleet.


I guess we should fit a bunch of ishtars with Entosis links then yeah?
Nou Mene
Rattini Tribe
Wild Geese.
#914 - 2015-08-21 17:27:56 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:

ill say it again make fozziesov a mesh between structure and elink grind.

make it so you use the elink to reinforce the 1st time then you have to use elinks for the 1st capture event.

this then would cause the second reinforce which would then disable the shields and allow the structure to be shoot at.

so now you can put your capitals to work and attack the structure...

but even though the structure is vulnerable you can also choose to capture the annoms spread throughout the consultation.

So no you have a b-r type situation where you have your capital fight over the structure and then a bunch of sub cap fights over the capture annoms.


This!, why it has to be only one way to fight... i never really understood why the ehp grind had to disappear. Keep both systems. Iterate on making them compatible..
Harry Saq
Of Tears and ISK
ISK.Net
#915 - 2015-08-21 18:03:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Saq
Servers can't handle the load of big fights, coalitions and large mega battles are being designed away from, the sooner you realize that the happier you will be. It's futile to argue for mechanics that result in massive escalations. Step 1 was limiting travel and increasing the size of space (i.e. stick), Step 2 was designing a sov mechanic that both reigned in the ability to create massive buffers on empty space and does not necessarily escalate to a massive 4k brawl of server death, hence the node spawning and spreading the battlefield (i.e. another stick), Step 3 will be to incentivize living in systems and constellation while both being able to fortify and prosper as independent and strong smaller groups (i.e. carrot), Step 4+ ...hopefully more carrots.

Everybody is focusing on the damned sticks, maybe you should look ahead and start deciding what kind of carrots you would like, because that's what's coming, and where we should be focusing the attention of the devs.

Technology is what it is right now, as you start hearing your inner "good'ol day" voice starting to pipe up, you need to read through the old tidi threads as primers, and realize CCP simply never could figure out a solution to the technology problem, and instead walked a different way. That is why we are here...everything else is a distraction, and only serves to delay development of the carrots we actually could use.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#916 - 2015-08-21 18:14:26 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Querns wrote:
I will however admit publicly to a great deal of amusement in the fact that Aegis failed to "kill" or even "moderately annoy" the Imperium.


And yet here you all are moaning

I can think current interceptor gameplay is out of band and still not be greatly affected by them, as an organization.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

bigbillthaboss3
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#917 - 2015-08-21 18:14:51 UTC
Harry Saq wrote:
rabble rabble


You are missing the point of what people are highlighting as the issue. The issue is not FozzieSov itsself, with some tweaks and fine tuning the system can work great. What the problem is, and stated countless times previously, the ability to harass/troll sovereignty with no risk/punishment mechanism.
Harry Saq
Of Tears and ISK
ISK.Net
#918 - 2015-08-21 18:27:37 UTC
bigbillthaboss3 wrote:
Harry Saq wrote:
accurate assessment


You are missing the point of what people are highlighting as the issue. The issue is not FozzieSov itsself, with some tweaks and fine tuning the system can work great. What the problem is, and stated countless times previously, the ability to harass/troll sovereignty with no risk/punishment mechanism.

The point is, it's all about server lag, spreading people out, and still managing to make it worthwhile and fun. The harassment argument is based on a false premise of large holdings, which begs still more sticks, maybe still smaller and smaller, but sticks they will be.
bigbillthaboss3
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#919 - 2015-08-21 18:35:24 UTC
Harry Saq wrote:
bigbillthaboss3 wrote:
Harry Saq wrote:
rabble rabble


You are missing the point of what people are highlighting as the issue. The issue is not FozzieSov itsself, with some tweaks and fine tuning the system can work great. What the problem is, and stated countless times previously, the ability to harass/troll sovereignty with no risk/punishment mechanism.

The point is, it's all about server lag, spreading people out, and still managing to make it worthwhile and fun. The harassment argument is based on a false premise of large holdings, which begs still more sticks, maybe still smaller and smaller, but sticks they will be.



What false premise? What 'sticks' and what are sticks? Where in this thread are we talking about "We want more lag fests!" ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#920 - 2015-08-21 19:47:24 UTC
sticks are obviously magiclaser trollships

Smaller and smaller... but we're already down to interceptors...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?