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[Galatea] First batch of sov capture iterations

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Author
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#881 - 2015-08-21 13:00:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Awkward Pi Duolus
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
There this thing called 'probes' and with it I have no difficulties killing trollfrigs and ceptors even moving 8+ km/sec. It's not exactly hard to do. Points are not even necessary thanks to the fact that they cannot even warp off. It's almost funny.

Nothing wrong with trollceptors.


Ahahahahhahaaha....

Have you really ever tried probing, bro?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#882 - 2015-08-21 13:05:47 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Moneymake wrote:
Let's see when Providence burns


I'll believe that when I see it, it was threatened before this even went live and.... *crickets*

And if it does, it'll sure as hell not be interceptors.


Well, not after the patch lands at least.
bigbillthaboss3
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#883 - 2015-08-21 13:11:30 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Querns wrote:
I will however admit publicly to a great deal of amusement in the fact that Aegis failed to "kill" or even "moderately annoy" the Imperium.


And yet here you all are moaning



No, it is only 4 or so of us. It's not like we are burning Jita or something along those lines in protest.

We are simply highlighting a flaw in the Entosis Linking system (interceptors) that can be exploited. Other than MOA picking at systems in pure blind, no one has really utilized this, yet. I want people to think ahead into the future. One 300 man gang, all interceptors, deployed to every system in a single region. It is impossible to react to all of those in an effective manner. If you manage to scare some off, they can come right back and do it again because they escaped. Now imagine this consistently happening over a week's period, sounds like fun stuff right? No.

Stop grr gooning and think logically about the situation.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#884 - 2015-08-21 13:17:06 UTC
bigbillthaboss3 wrote:
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Querns wrote:
I will however admit publicly to a great deal of amusement in the fact that Aegis failed to "kill" or even "moderately annoy" the Imperium.


And yet here you all are moaning



No, it is only 4 or so of us. It's not like we are burning Jita or something along those lines in protest.

We are simply highlighting a flaw in the Entosis Linking system (interceptors) that can be exploited. Other than MOA picking at systems in pure blind, no one has really utilized this, yet. I want people to think ahead into the future. One 300 man gang, all interceptors, deployed to every system in a single region. It is impossible to react to all of those in an effective manner. If you manage to scare some off, they can come right back and do it again because they escaped. Now imagine this consistently happening over a week's period, sounds like fun stuff right? No.

Stop grr gooning and think logically about the situation.



Indeed, I don't think we're quite there yet, but the situation is far from dire and going in the right direction. I think a very slightly lower speed cap and a return of (or better still, increase to) the mass penalty will be about perfect. I'd also not be opposed to a doubling of fuel costs.

All we need is a happy medium where it's not too awkward to catch people, but not too easy to mount an essentially passive defence either.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#885 - 2015-08-21 13:23:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Lucas Kell wrote:
Why are you so against conflict existing in nullsec?
Same question back: Why are you evading conflict in Null sec by hiding under the most powerful entity in the game, stifling conflict in an entire sector of Null sec? Your complaints about risk-aversion are entirely hypocritical as long as you are a member of the CFC. However, if you were not a member of CFC, you would not be able to exist. I would now say that you should stop your own risk-averse behavior before you demand it from others, but as this is a sandbox you are free to do what you want to do. However, claiming other people are risk-averse and dodge conflict from a person in CFC is absolutely hilarious to read. I am not against conflict in Null sec, I live in an area with near constant action and sov threats. I have more than enough conflict in my local area. You on the other hand have pacified an entire sector in Null sec, complain about meaning less "trolls" of ceptors to your space and need to go to Providence under the guise of RP or other far away areas of space to find activity.

Please tell me again how disallowing ceptors is not creating conflict in Null sec, how cruisers would be so much better (considering your "impenetrable border controls", I am very interested in hearing that) and how you contribute anything to the "conflict in Null sec" in your area?

--

@bigbillthaboss3 It does not matter. At all. Whatever CCP does, as long as there are enough people lumped together, acting together it does not matter whether 300 ceptors are able to do this or 300 cruisers or 300 BS. You cannot defend against any of it and even less so against something bigger than ceptors as the bigger ships demand more than just one person to take care of them or bigger ships brought by the defenders themselves to take care of intruders. This reduces their capability even more to counter such a ridiculous onslaught.

I am entirely aware of that EVE players have nothing better to than to exhaust any and all mechanics to the ridiculous extreme. Nothing CCP can introduce will change that.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#886 - 2015-08-21 13:23:57 UTC
So last night I went on a fleet and didn't really see any troll ceptor. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to think of that 8,5k nomen tho...
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#887 - 2015-08-21 13:24:20 UTC
The purpose of this change, as with Phobe and others, was to press sort of a reset button with Eve.

CCP intends to bring chaos to new Eden. The extremely low barrier to entry to sov and disproportionately more manpower required to nullify sovwanding is clearly an indication of CCP's intention to bring asymmetric pain down on sov holders.

The trick with these things is no one knows what kind of order will emerge after all the old structures of organization have been burnt down. It's made doubly complicated by the fact that people are getting tired with sovtrolling already.

Also, remember that to burn things down, you have to have someone to build things up. If the CFC can actually manage to wipe Provi indexes and ihubs in 3 days and destroy 100 days and 500B in effort, imagine what message that will send to anyone else wanting to build their little empire.

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#888 - 2015-08-21 13:28:20 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
So last night I went on a fleet and didn't really see any troll ceptor. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to think of that 8,5k nomen tho...

It's fine. It's a cruiser. A cruiser going 4k m² (soon after the hard cap change) is totally better than a ceptor because it can apprehended by a little gate camp. (please observe the semi-sarcastic tone.)

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#889 - 2015-08-21 13:28:58 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
I'm still bitter about siegefleet. As a member of many a siegefleet, it was ******* horrible.


How can you be bitter about siegefleet? Siege & Sing w/Suas was where we first got to hear Boat's Oddity... live and unplugged, even!
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#890 - 2015-08-21 13:35:18 UTC
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
If the CFC can actually manage to wipe Provi indexes and ihubs in 3 days and destroy 100 days and 500B in effort, imagine what message that will send to anyone else wanting to build their little empire.



Again, I think you're massively underestimating how stacked the deck is to the defender with their kinds of indexes.

If you manage it, it'll require a fleet in such numbers that the same result would have happened in the old system only more emphatically.

In short, if you're doing this, you're bringing all the guns and the whole 9 yards. Which....doesn't really prove much tbh. Except maybe that defended sov won't fall to trolls.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#891 - 2015-08-21 13:42:06 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
So last night I went on a fleet and didn't really see any troll ceptor. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to think of that 8,5k nomen tho...


Head to where MOA are sniffing around but don't expect a fight, their cepter fleet ran from my roaming dreadnought.
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#892 - 2015-08-21 13:44:30 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Again, I think you're massively underestimating how stacked the deck is to the defender with their kinds of indexes.

If you manage it, it'll require a fleet in such numbers that the same result would have happened in the old system only more emphatically.


I'm assuming you mean, the deck is stacked in favor of the defender. How so? Please explain.

Regarding the second point, it depends on if they truly do it with cruiser hulls or below, or have to end up getting the heavy weights like dreads and BSes. And also the speed. I guess we'll know within 2 weeks, either way.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#893 - 2015-08-21 13:44:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Lets be honest, the only competent gate camps in our space are run by hostiles.


Or Boat's inty-killing Levi.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#894 - 2015-08-21 13:52:16 UTC
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Again, I think you're massively underestimating how stacked the deck is to the defender with their kinds of indexes.

If you manage it, it'll require a fleet in such numbers that the same result would have happened in the old system only more emphatically.


I'm assuming you mean, the deck is stacked in favor of the defender. How so? Please explain.

Regarding the second point, it depends on if they truly do it with cruiser hulls or below, or have to end up getting the heavy weights like dreads and BSes. And also the speed. I guess we'll know within 2 weeks, either way.


Let's assume the patch has hit (either way, the multiples are the same).

Let's assume you get to the node event, it is a race to capture them. Provi will take a node in 4 minutes, attackers will take 24 minutes. You're in a race with people tagging objectives SIX times faster than you.

Unless you significantly outnumber people and/or actively fight and control each and every grid, they're going to cap so much faster you'll be ice skating uphill trying to keep up.

That's assuming you even get to the command node event - which I'm not sure will be that easy as trolls can (and will be) chased off quickly and they can leave you there for 20 minutes pissing away time and stront, rock up and punt you off the structure and reset it in 4 minutes.


My money is on the heavy ships after a few days of inconsequential prodding. Hell I'd not be surprised to find the invasion cancelled for $REASON after a period.

I could well be wrong and am genuinely intrigued - it'll be an excellent "test" of the system with real things at stake and a good sov owner on the defensive (by good, I mean high indexes). Can't wait, will be fascinating.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#895 - 2015-08-21 13:53:20 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Lets be honest, the only competent gate camps in our space are run by hostiles.


Or Boat's inty-killing Levi.


When I told him about my theory on a roaming titan I didn't expect him to try it.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#896 - 2015-08-21 13:55:59 UTC
bigbillthaboss3 wrote:
No, it is only 4 or so of us. It's not like we are burning Jita or something along those lines in protest.


Shockingly, it's more or less the exact same people who were saying 'yeah, trollceptors will be a thing' before the Entosis came out, and got told 'no no, of course they won't! look at everything we've done to prevent them'.

To which, of course, we responded with 'they'll ping the node, forcing form-ups, then run off to the next one', which, again, we were assured couldn't possibly be a thing.

So, you know, lemme know when our critics start having any track record of being right about anything.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#897 - 2015-08-21 14:00:17 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Why are you so against conflict existing in nullsec?
Same question back: Why are you evading conflict in Null sec by hiding under the most powerful entity in the game, stifling conflict in an entire sector of Null sec?
I'm not hiding, I'm simply a member of a decently sized group that works together, that's all. It's not my fault that you have some form of discrimination about people who work together to win EVE.

Rivr Luzade wrote:
Your complaints about risk-aversion are entirely hypocritical as long as you are a member of the CFC.
It's not about risk aversion, it's lack of commitment. I commit a hell of a lot more to nullsec than an interceptor. Also, you are confusing risk aversion (avoiding risk even at cost of efficiency) and risk mitigation (minimizing risk while maintaining efficiency). Interceptors clearly aren't the best choice to attack sov, but the people using them won't put anything more on the line because they are cowards.

Rivr Luzade wrote:
However, if you were not a member of CFC, you would not be able to exist.
Really? I've been playing EVE for over 10 years and I've been an Imperium member for 2 and a half, so clearly you're wrong.

Rivr Luzade wrote:
Please tell me again how disallowing ceptors is not creating conflict in Null sec, how cruisers would be so much better (considering your "impenetrable border controls", I am very interested in hearing that) and how you contribute anything to the "conflict in Null sec" in your area?
We don't have impenetrable border controls, sine we aren't under threat of being conquered regardless of who brings what into our space. Whatever way it goes, we're safe from people attacking us. The point with interceptors is that nobody can really stop them getting through, so they are the most optimal choice for most people looking to attack an enemy without committing too much.

Having cruisers (or battlecruisers more realistically) would mean that to contest sov you'd have to consider the choice. Will they defend? If they do defend do we have a force to fight them? If all else fails do we have a backup and/or evac plan? With interceptors that's all out the window. You can go fire at nearly any timer and the worse that happens is you lose an interceptor if you fall asleep. In the meantime there's hundreds of timers being created for people to have to deal with, meaning that they can't also go out seeking conflict as they have "work" to do, in a game. If commitment were required, harassment would still be possible but would require you to risk a bit to do it, but importantly most of the sov contests would be real attempts at fighting over sov.

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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#898 - 2015-08-21 14:02:49 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
When I told him about my theory on a roaming titan I didn't expect him to try it.
How can you not expect him to actually try this? From what I have heard about him, he is kind of the nuts guy that does everything a little bit different. It's also not like anything could really happen to him. He has not left your space, you can react quickly in the unlikely event of PL, BL or any other power to get wind about it, and it is just for the lols, right?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#899 - 2015-08-21 14:14:28 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Having cruisers (or battlecruisers more realistically) would mean that to contest sov you'd have to consider the choice. Will they defend? If they do defend do we have a force to fight them? If all else fails do we have a backup and/or evac plan? With interceptors that's all out the window. You can go fire at nearly any timer and the worse that happens is you lose an interceptor if you fall asleep. In the meantime there's hundreds of timers being created for people to have to deal with, meaning that they can't also go out seeking conflict as they have "work" to do, in a game. If commitment were required, harassment would still be possible but would require you to risk a bit to do it, but importantly most of the sov contests would be real attempts at fighting over sov.

*sigh* You as in your alliance, or any other alliance besides CONDI in CFC. You as in your person, your character has no significance to me in this context. Thank, though, for confirming that point. Roll

There would not be such questions, because the answer to them at least in an attack plan against your sov is clear: Yes, attacks are futile. No, we do not have the backup of thousands of people. No backup plan necessary as no first action plan is necessary. I do not understand how something will create more fights if there is no initial trigger to begin with.Ugh

Ceptors cannot create any timer if driven off right away. Unless they are brought in such ridiculous numbers as previously hinted. Then, as stated, it does not matter if it's cruisrs, ceptors or BS. The sheer numbers overwhelm the defender. Period. Harassment does not require commitment, that is why it is harassment and not a serious attempt to take over the sov. As stated before by many people, ceptors do not take over sov, it is fleets that takes over sov and they already commit. Only if defenders allow ceptors to run nodes, they are able to do that. And believe me, I have been in many situations where I had to waste loads of time trying to link a node with my ceptor only to get a visit from a Cerb or Orthrus right after I started my warm-up. Another wasted 5 minutes, and I slowly but steadily ran out out Stront and the way back to my Stront Depot was blocked by an insta locking gate camp,which would have fried my ceptor. I thus absolutely not see any problem with ceptors, unless brought in huge numbers and then the above applies and nullifies anything else in the first place.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Philip Ogtaulmolfi
We are not bad. Just unlucky
#900 - 2015-08-21 14:14:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


It's not that it's hard for us its that it's even more boring than grinding all of delves structures. Chasing around cepters all day gets boring very fast.


I agree. We should not be chasing ceptors and they will get bored real quick.

1. Drop all sovereignty you don't live in, and by living I mean being in the system.
2. Scare anyone who appears in your system. Logging an alt will suffice in most cases. Ignore all other ceptors.
3. Use force projection to avoid anybody to live in any system that you consider your area of influence, independently of infrastructure deployed.

Your system count will fall, but your effective area of influence in Verite maps will continue to be as large as you want.