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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Freighter ideas

Author
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#1 - 2015-08-17 14:09:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Do Little
Tl;dr: Proposing a freighter rebalance that encourages players to fly their ships and gives them more options to fit for speed, capacity or tank.

On a recent 20 jump trek across New Eden, I found myself thinking about how slow my freighter is and how nice it would be to boost it into warp with 1 cycle of of an MWD as I can with my Orca. I don’t see this negatively impacting game balance - you can achieve the same result now using a webbing ALT but it requires multi-boxing 2 accounts and not everyone wants to, or is able to, do this.

A Google search turned up nothing about fitting a MWD to a freighter - so, if I was DEV for a day with a mandate to rebalance freighters what would I do:

* Get rid of the speed bonus per level of freighter skill and replace with an agility bonus - same as Bowhead.

* Reduce base tank but allow players to fit a DCU. This is an active module that has to be turned on after every jump. AFK pilots will have less tank than they do now as will pilots who fit for maximum capacity.

* Provide a mid-slot and a role bonus that allows fitting a 500MN MWD with enough power to boost the ship to warp with 1 extended, 15 second cycle. Putting the mid slot online would disable one of the low slots - you have 4 slots but can only use 3 of them - the extra speed is instead of something we have now, not in addition to. For an additional drawback, making a mistake and running a second cycle should pretty much kill your capacitor and prevent warping until it recharges. Once again, this is an active module and will only benefit players who are flying their ship.

The extended cycle time should give an alert Machariel pilot a decent shot at bumping and can be adjusted as necessary to achieve balance. The first bump will be more difficult but, in my opinion, it should be. Right now the freighter pilot has no counter - other than bringing a webbing ALT on a second account or logging off.

My goal here was to give freighter pilots a good reason to fly their ships along with a more enjoyable experience when they do. The capability discussed exists now if you have the ability and desire to multibox 2 accounts (or a corp-mate with nothing better to do than web for you) but, in my opinion, that should not be required.

Comment and criticism is welcome.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#2 - 2015-08-17 14:56:07 UTC
I agree that solutions should be made to protect the shipping lanes

as of now I have freighters in my hanger that just collect dust because the only answer is to Use friends or use alts in various ways.

1. you don't trust anyone in eve...not even your own alt (ive known people that ganked their own alt because they forgot it was heading through the same system and all they saw was a hauler)

2. the alt reliance system needs to be gotten rid of anyways because having alts for everything with no links between them gets people out of risk vs reward situations of both PVE and PVP.

Id be for being able to have a MJD on a freighter

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#3 - 2015-08-17 14:57:39 UTC
You mean slash base tank right? A DC near triples a freighters tank.

And then when we fit for capacity we can be much easier to gank whether we are active or not.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Black Pedro
Mine.
#4 - 2015-08-17 15:05:12 UTC
Why do these "buff freighter" threads always start with the premise that the freighter is the only hauler you can use in highsec? CCP has provided perfectly good T2 haulers that can fit all these goodies already, fly faster, and can be used safely solo.

Freighters are slow and vulnerable so need a fleet, but can carry a lot. That is a classic Eve trade-off that CCP has engineered so you have to make a choice. Either accept the downsides of a freighter, or don't and fly something else, but don't come here asking for CCP to give you the best of both worlds. That would completely devalue the other haulers and make the game more boring as there would be fewer choices for players to make.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#5 - 2015-08-17 15:18:44 UTC
Do Little wrote:
Tl;dr: Proposing a freighter rebalance that encourages players to fly their ships and gives them more options to fit for speed, capacity or tank.

Your entire post is based on the joint premises that freighters should be easy and safe to fly solo, and that fewer and fewer people are flying freighters.

You are incorrect on both points.

If fewer people were really flying freighters, they wouldn't show up on killboards as often, and you'd likely see the markets for bulk items going haywire as people struggled to make deliveries. Neither of these conditions are true.

Freighters are capital ships (albeit non-combat ones) and all capital ships are geared towards non-solo play. A webbing alt should be to a freighter pilot what a cyno alt is to a dread or carrier pilot.

-1.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#6 - 2015-08-17 15:37:15 UTC
'Alt reliance' is incorrect. Its alt ADVANTAGE and there is nothing wrong with that.

It should take effort to compete with those also putting in effort. By levelling the field for everyone, the lazy-Anti social-disorganized included, takes away any advantage putting in effort provides and devalues the service.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#7 - 2015-08-17 16:14:49 UTC
No to the Damage Control. If you allow the DC, you literally remove 1 low slot from the freighters. You make it absolutely mandatory to fit that module to have some meager HP. I also do not see why freighters should be able to fit a DC if they just get back to previous HP with that thing active.

An MWD cycle is also not going to save you from a Machariel bumper. The cycle is about 8 seconds for the MWD, that is more than enough time for any Machariel to land a bump.

A resounding No to these suggestions

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2015-08-21 21:26:05 UTC
All these nay posters above should be black listed by Frogs from now and so on.

Meanwhile, OP did you have a chance to read Falcon's reply on one of the whinny hauler killed thread? It's a pretty straight forward.
By replacing velocity with agility now your Freighter would align faster than Orca which is sub cap class ship and it's wrong. After reading i got a feeling that you are trying modify Freighters into big Orcas. Which is again not right at all.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Rift Tarkken
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-08-21 22:44:17 UTC
I have some sympathy for this idea as I also fly freighters and don't enjoy the long align and jump times. However, I don't think the solution proposed is correct for the reasons that others have stated.

I would much rather see a new hauler somewhere in between the Iteron and freighter (and no that's not an Orca Big smile).
Yockerbow
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-08-21 22:52:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Yockerbow
Tiddle Jr wrote:
After reading i got a feeling that you are trying modify Freighters into big Orcas.



It's more or less exactly what he's doing, since the MWD-align mechanic is abundantly used on Orcas. Allowing it to scale up to freighters would de-balance the Orca to the point where it's even more useless than the Rorqual.

Rift Tarkken wrote:
I have some sympathy for this idea as I also fly freighters and don't enjoy the long align and jump times. However, I don't think the solution proposed is correct for the reasons that others have stated.

I would much rather see a new hauler somewhere in between the Iteron and freighter (and no that's not an Orca Big smile).


Uhm, yes it is in fact an Orca.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#11 - 2015-08-22 00:14:21 UTC
The model was the Bowhead - not the Orca. I don't personally own one but I've read that MWD-warp does work. The main objective was to give pilots more incentive to actually fly their ships by cutting a minute off each jump. It seemed reasonable given that the Bowhead had the capability and freighters can warp even faster if you use a webbing ALT.

I use a DST for personal hauling and it only needs 1 cycle of the AB to warp - 7.5 seconds. I suppose I'm spoiled!

If CCP wants a hauler midway between the T1 industrial and freighter they only need to give the DST a standard cargo hold instead of the fleet hanger. I assume the choice not to do that was deliberate! Orca also suffers from split holds but, given its intended role, the fleet hangar makes sense.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#12 - 2015-08-22 00:23:50 UTC
Just one more nerf.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#13 - 2015-08-25 06:06:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
wow, you are in a freighter corp and you came up with a slew of sh***y ideas about freighters?

Red Frog needs to s***-can your ass.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#14 - 2015-08-25 09:05:53 UTC
Do Little wrote:

My goal here was to give freighter pilots a good reason to fly their ships along with a more enjoyable experience when they do. The capability discussed exists now if you have the ability and desire to multibox 2 accounts (or a corp-mate with nothing better to do than web for you) but, in my opinion, that should not be required.

Comment and criticism is welcome.


A ganking fleet requires:
An FC
2+ bumpers
1+ probers/Scouts
10-35 gankers
Coordination

And you are too lazy to have to either have 1 friend or 1 alt account to counter the efforts of at least 14 people? The fact that you seemingly want to be able to (solo) counter than much effort speaks to what you view as 'balanced'.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#15 - 2015-08-25 09:46:10 UTC
A Gank Fleet requires 1 Bumper, 1 Bowhead and 1-3 Gank pilots. Or it requires 1 Bumper, 1 Duell Baiter and some luck. A big CFCODE gank fleet does not require a cargo/ship scanner, that is done by 1 Bumper.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Caleb Seremshur
Naked Oiled Bodybuilders
Parasitic Legion.
#16 - 2015-08-25 09:51:48 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
A Gank Fleet requires 1 Bumper, 1 Bowhead and 1-3 Gank pilots. Or it requires 1 Bumper, 1 Duell Baiter and some luck. A big CFCODE gank fleet does not require a cargo/ship scanner, that is done by 1 Bumper.


It also could simply a 4man corp and a wardec.

Then you only need 1 ship
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2015-08-25 15:03:45 UTC
Do Little wrote:
Tl;dr: Proposing a freighter rebalance that encourages players to fly their ships and gives them more options to fit for speed, capacity or tank.

On a recent 20 jump trek across New Eden, I found myself thinking about how slow my freighter is and how nice it would be to boost it into warp with 1 cycle of of an MWD as I can with my Orca. I don’t see this negatively impacting game balance - you can achieve the same result now using a webbing ALT but it requires multi-boxing 2 accounts and not everyone wants to, or is able to, do this.

A Google search turned up nothing about fitting a MWD to a freighter - so, if I was DEV for a day with a mandate to rebalance freighters what would I do:

* Get rid of the speed bonus per level of freighter skill and replace with an agility bonus - same as Bowhead.

* Reduce base tank but allow players to fit a DCU. This is an active module that has to be turned on after every jump. AFK pilots will have less tank than they do now as will pilots who fit for maximum capacity.

* Provide a mid-slot and a role bonus that allows fitting a 500MN MWD with enough power to boost the ship to warp with 1 extended, 15 second cycle. Putting the mid slot online would disable one of the low slots - you have 4 slots but can only use 3 of them - the extra speed is instead of something we have now, not in addition to. For an additional drawback, making a mistake and running a second cycle should pretty much kill your capacitor and prevent warping until it recharges. Once again, this is an active module and will only benefit players who are flying their ship.

The extended cycle time should give an alert Machariel pilot a decent shot at bumping and can be adjusted as necessary to achieve balance. The first bump will be more difficult but, in my opinion, it should be. Right now the freighter pilot has no counter - other than bringing a webbing ALT on a second account or logging off.

My goal here was to give freighter pilots a good reason to fly their ships along with a more enjoyable experience when they do. The capability discussed exists now if you have the ability and desire to multibox 2 accounts (or a corp-mate with nothing better to do than web for you) but, in my opinion, that should not be required.

Comment and criticism is welcome.


Fast warp --> use a web alt
More tank --> fit Bulkheads

Make it even more easy for freighters, no way.

-1
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#18 - 2015-08-25 16:20:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Arya Regnar
Rivr Luzade wrote:
A Gank Fleet requires 1 Bumper, 1 Bowhead and 1-3 Gank pilots. Or it requires 1 Bumper, 1 Duell Baiter and some luck. A big CFCODE gank fleet does not require a cargo/ship scanner, that is done by 1 Bumper.

And can be countered by a single character that knows what he is doing.

Try harder.

--Edit--
I remember worrying about how much ANP armor resistance mods that freighters and JFs can now after the buff fit increase resists and EHP if combined with slave sets after the release.

I've scanned upwards of 200 freighters since and have seen 1 freighter with deadspace ANP and 0 JFs.

Ark can get 1080k ehp with HG slaves damnation links and ANPs.
You do need 2 characters to make it work but assuming you also bring a few nestors with you, you can practically make yourself ungankable in highsec due to sheer amount of pilots required to kill something like this.

All I see is people complaining about how freighter ganking is OP, but I see nobody using this setup.
People are just a bunch of whining pricks who are too lazy to do something about their well being.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#19 - 2015-08-25 16:42:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
admiral root wrote:
Just one more nerf.
And it will be balanced?

OP no. This is an MMO, start using friends.

Do Little wrote:
Comment and criticism is welcome.
Stop posting.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.