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Asset Safety, Station Destruction Q
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metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
#1 - 2015-08-17 05:40:57 UTC
One of the things noted by Fozzie during the round table (and I forget what it was referring to exactly) was that a large ISK injection into the game had previously caused some issues with the economy. Firstly I am wondering if anyone knew what this was referring to. I am thinking maybe when learning skill books were refunded or something of the like.

Further to this idea is how assets in stations are going to be treated once the stations are destroyed. If the current mechanic is followed for citadels this is going to cause a a reintroduction into the market of assets that were previously locked down in undockable stations. I haven't really looked at the map but my guess is that there are going to be a lot of stations that will have a lot of assets in them (possibly 4gq or agil or dss). Has anyone considered the impact of this. Has anyone run any numbers to see what stations/systems this would impact...would the number of assets reintroduced into the system be enough to make any sort of difference....has there been any consideration of for npc moving of assets (i.e. having npcs move an iteron for you vs noc moving 20k of morphite....)....

sorry less of a question and more vague ideas about possible ways things will unfold....
Starbuck05
Abiding Ormolus
#2 - 2015-08-17 06:45:02 UTC
They are still considering what to do with assets when said Citadel will blow up ..


Core ideeas are that they will get redistributed to the nearest npc station , something ... and something ( can't remember )

Just because i am blond does not make me stoopid !
fudface
ACME-INC
#3 - 2015-08-17 08:46:03 UTC
i think that the destruction of the citadel should result in a total loss of all items stored there. nothing should survive.

burn everything.

my 2 isk worth
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-08-17 08:47:25 UTC
fudface wrote:
i think that the destruction of the citadel should result in a total loss of all items stored there. nothing should survive.

burn everything.


Only if we can burn NPC stations too!

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Pook600
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-08-17 14:00:13 UTC
Give a your items in an explodified station the same baseline insurance rate as your ship. Not a total loss, but not this loot fairy garbage they have penned in right now either.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2015-08-17 14:03:13 UTC
Pook600 wrote:
Give a your items in an explodified station the same baseline insurance rate as your ship. Not a total loss, but not this loot fairy garbage they have penned in right now either.

> CCP representative is worried about ISK injection being superflous at one point in history;
> Player immediately suggests even more ways to turn goods into uncovered digital ISK.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Pook600
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-08-17 14:05:01 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Pook600 wrote:
Give a your items in an explodified station the same baseline insurance rate as your ship. Not a total loss, but not this loot fairy garbage they have penned in right now either.

> CCP representative is worried about ISK injection being superflous at one point in history;
> Player immediately suggests even more ways to turn goods into uncovered digital ISK.


Ugh.......

Check percentage on default insurance rate before running your suck.
slam34
Transtar Services
#8 - 2015-08-17 17:54:46 UTC
I can't give you numbers, but I have a lot of stuff in a lot of outposts in null sec, accumulated over several years that I no longer have access to because the outposts in question changed hands. But that stuff is still there. I could theoreticaly reclaim that stuff under the right conditions. This is what is being replicated by having the loot fairy move stuff from the destroyed new structures.

But here's the thing. The old structures just changed hands. The new ones will be destroyed. And let's face it, all the loot I have left behind??? even in my less lucid moments I know I'll never see the bulk of it again. It is lost to me. If you lose your station/outpost/POS/whatever, you should lose your stuff. Unless maybe you're there and can catch some of it as it squirts out into vacuum.

I suppose losing my stuff in so many creatively dumb ways has made me less attached to my stuff. Stuff lost is stuff lost, whether it is an access issue or an explodifying issue, it's still lost. Transporting it over many light years just doesn't seem to fit the game, the lore, or the mechanics. The economy? Please. A meager insurance payout makes more sense than any of it.

High sec: That's the tutorial. Null Sec is the actual game. Wormholes? Even CCP isn't sure.
d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-08-17 18:59:04 UTC
If your citadel gets REIT you have to pay a fee base on your stuff to get it back.

Makes sense if you want citadels to be used.

Been around since the beginning.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#10 - 2015-08-17 19:15:58 UTC
Yang Aurilen wrote:
fudface wrote:
i think that the destruction of the citadel should result in a total loss of all items stored there. nothing should survive.

burn everything.

Only if we can burn NPC stations too!

... otherwise nobody would want to keep their valuable stuff in a more-vulnerable citadel.

I think some people may not understand that citadels are intended to be bases of operation. Citadels have much more in common with NPC stations and Gallente Outposts than POSes.

The really interesting structures are yet to come!

Example: a Drilling Platform is likely to offer less security for its contents.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#11 - 2015-08-17 19:49:16 UTC
OP, please keep in mind the difference between ISK and assets. ISK is the number in your wallet. ISK injection means wallets are going up, and the average amount of ISK players have to spend is increasing.
Assets are ships, modules and so on. Increasing how many of them are in the game does not make the total ISK in the game go up. In fact, the recovery method suggested for assets, when a citadel explodes, requires paying a fee to some nameless NPC entity (maybe Interbus?) who moved your stuff. Thus, every time a citadel explodes, ISK is potentially removed from the game.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-08-18 01:47:09 UTC
metalravenous wrote:
One of the things noted by Fozzie during the round table (and I forget what it was referring to exactly) was that a large ISK injection into the game had previously caused some issues with the economy. Firstly I am wondering if anyone knew what this was referring to...




Only thing I can think of was the accidental aurum sale amazon had where aurum was sold for a 10th or 20th of it's actual price and a reddit post had people jumping all over it. By the time Amazon was notified the damage was done.
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
#13 - 2015-08-18 01:47:34 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
OP, please keep in mind the difference between ISK and assets. ISK is the number in your wallet. ISK injection means wallets are going up, and the average amount of ISK players have to spend is increasing.
Assets are ships, modules and so on. Increasing how many of them are in the game does not make the total ISK in the game go up. In fact, the recovery method suggested for assets, when a citadel explodes, requires paying a fee to some nameless NPC entity (maybe Interbus?) who moved your stuff. Thus, every time a citadel explodes, ISK is potentially removed from the game.



What i am getting at is the amount of assets that are going to be freed up....I dont think the value is trivial....
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2015-08-18 01:53:24 UTC
unless I'm wrong, the asset movers will only apply to a destroyed citadel. And unless they plan on destroying outposts soon (the real soon not CCP soon) then its not much of an issue.
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-08-18 01:56:51 UTC
Those assets are already free. I'd be more worried about any reimbursement paid out for stations. CVA is going to be rich as **** if they do.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
#16 - 2015-08-18 01:58:08 UTC
Rowells wrote:
unless I'm wrong, the asset movers will only apply to a destroyed citadel. And unless they plan on destroying outposts soon (the real soon not CCP soon) then its not much of an issue.



probably not but the idea of trade hubs being created by npc asset deliveries to closest station is still interesting...systems like agil and 4gq have the potential to have a lot of assets in them
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
#17 - 2015-08-18 01:59:32 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
Those assets are already free. I'd be more worried about any reimbursement paid out for stations. CVA is going to be rich as **** if they do.



at best i think ccp would return the materials used to build the stations tbh...
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
#18 - 2015-08-18 02:01:10 UTC
slam34 wrote:
I can't give you numbers, but I have a lot of stuff in a lot of outposts in null sec, accumulated over several years that I no longer have access to because the outposts in question changed hands. But that stuff is still there. I could theoreticaly reclaim that stuff under the right conditions. This is what is being replicated by having the loot fairy move stuff from the destroyed new structures.

But here's the thing. The old structures just changed hands. The new ones will be destroyed. And let's face it, all the loot I have left behind??? even in my less lucid moments I know I'll never see the bulk of it again. It is lost to me. If you lose your station/outpost/POS/whatever, you should lose your stuff. Unless maybe you're there and can catch some of it as it squirts out into vacuum.

I suppose losing my stuff in so many creatively dumb ways has made me less attached to my stuff. Stuff lost is stuff lost, whether it is an access issue or an explodifying issue, it's still lost. Transporting it over many light years just doesn't seem to fit the game, the lore, or the mechanics. The economy? Please. A meager insurance payout makes more sense than any of it.



You forget about market traders...there are people who buy firesales and sell back to the next set of residents..and so on

items are lost only in the sense that you cant dock in the station...asset is still useable via market and contracts
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#19 - 2015-08-18 02:12:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
d0cTeR9 wrote:
If your citadel gets REIT you have to pay a fee base on your stuff to get it back.

Makes sense if you want citadels to be used.

What makes sense is people having a reason to fight for their stuff.

Under the current proposal, who cares? Let your citadel go and no worries, you'll get all your stuff back.

There's no risk other than the loss of the citadel, followed by an ISK sink to reclaim your possessions.

Put it all on the line and give a real reason for people to fight for the survival of their citadel.

Making game mechanics to appease the risk averse isn't great game design. Eve is supposed to be full of risk, especially in nullsec.

But if CCP are looking for reasons for people to fight for their things and get attached to the space they own, it doesn't seem to me that providing a safe freight service to the nearest NPC station is the way to do that.
fudface
ACME-INC
#20 - 2015-08-19 08:09:14 UTC
Yang Aurilen wrote:
fudface wrote:
i think that the destruction of the citadel should result in a total loss of all items stored there. nothing should survive.

burn everything.


Only if we can burn NPC stations too!


CCP Seagull did say everything in eve should be destructible. Personally i am watching out for the drifters killing off jita 4-4 or the Amarr hub.

nice way to remove isk from the game. losing jita or amarr would cost me billions in lost stuff and i am only a tiny trader.

The drifters killing an NPC trade hub would really shake up the game and remind everyone that nowhere is safe.

my 2 isk worth
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