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Can someone explain "web you to warp".

Author
Josette Dugas
Industrial United Holdings
#1 - 2015-08-16 13:22:26 UTC
I was reading another thread on freighter bumping and one of the posters said: "Avoiding being bumped is as simple as having someone web you to warp".

Could anyone expand on this a bit? What is involved in "webbing someone to warp"?

What equipment would the escort ship need? Can it be done with two ships in a fleet or do they need to be in the same corp to avoid getting an aggressor tick from concord?

Any advice would be helpful. I would like to start doing some freighter hauling but with the bump mechanic as it is it seems like a loser game (unless something has changed recently).

Thanks in advance.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2015-08-16 13:35:47 UTC
Your post seems a little all over and I'm not sure exactly what you are asking but I'll explain how people used to web big ships into warp. The mechanic has changed a little. It still works but I've heard not as well as it used to. I'll be honest I've not tried it in years but here is the explanation of the mechanics anyway.

So the prerequisites for entering warp are that you need to be aligned to your destination within ( I believe ) 5% and moving at least 75% of your current speed. I also believe that there is a maximum on that speed but am uncertain and since it does not pertain to this discussion won't mention it further.

So basically if you ship is aligned and you waiting for your speed to go up and then you web the ship it's current potential max speed will become about 60% less so you will likely enter warp immediately but at the very least faster.

Bumping is when you ram into a ship that is trying to enter warp in order to keep if from aligning thus preventing if from warping.

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Josette Dugas
Industrial United Holdings
#3 - 2015-08-16 13:53:22 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Your post seems a little all over and I'm not sure exactly what you are asking but I'll explain how people used to web big ships into warp. The mechanic has changed a little. It still works but I've heard not as well as it used to. I'll be honest I've not tried it in years but here is the explanation of the mechanics anyway.

So the prerequisites for entering warp are that you need to be aligned to your destination within ( I believe ) 5% and moving at least 75% of your current speed. I also believe that there is a maximum on that speed but am uncertain and since it does not pertain to this discussion won't mention it further.

So basically if you ship is aligned and you waiting for your speed to go up and then you web the ship it's current potential max speed will become about 60% less so you will likely enter warp immediately but at the very least faster.

Bumping is when you ram into a ship that is trying to enter warp in order to keep if from aligning thus preventing if from warping.


But when you say web are you talking about the escort ship locking on you and engaging a stasis web? I guess that's what I'm not sure about. So you are saying that if you are aligned and try to gain speed with a big ship having an ally put a stasis web on you will move you into warp a lot quicker?

What I am trying to avoid is getting caught by a small ship camping at a gate and bumping my fighter around pretty much for as long as they feel like with no real recourse other than to enjoy the spin and wait for the gank squad :)
David Therman
#4 - 2015-08-16 14:23:29 UTC
Josette Dugas wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Your post seems a little all over and I'm not sure exactly what you are asking but I'll explain how people used to web big ships into warp. The mechanic has changed a little. It still works but I've heard not as well as it used to. I'll be honest I've not tried it in years but here is the explanation of the mechanics anyway.

So the prerequisites for entering warp are that you need to be aligned to your destination within ( I believe ) 5% and moving at least 75% of your current speed. I also believe that there is a maximum on that speed but am uncertain and since it does not pertain to this discussion won't mention it further.

So basically if you ship is aligned and you waiting for your speed to go up and then you web the ship it's current potential max speed will become about 60% less so you will likely enter warp immediately but at the very least faster.

Bumping is when you ram into a ship that is trying to enter warp in order to keep if from aligning thus preventing if from warping.


But when you say web are you talking about the escort ship locking on you and engaging a stasis web? I guess that's what I'm not sure about. So you are saying that if you are aligned and try to gain speed with a big ship having an ally put a stasis web on you will move you into warp a lot quicker?

What I am trying to avoid is getting caught by a small ship camping at a gate and bumping my fighter around pretty much for as long as they feel like with no real recourse other than to enjoy the spin and wait for the gank squad :)


Pretty much, but seeing as a standard meta/t2 web has a range of 10km, it's preferable if you use a ship that has a bonus to web range, because you can end up de-cloaking further away then that more often then not... and that few seconds of having your escort get into range could make all the difference. Something like the Cruor, if you don't have the SP for a Huginn/Loki. Oh, and it's also best if you fit 2/3 webs, 1 alone won't get it into warp instantly.

In answer to aggression/weapon timers, just invite your escort to a duel; that particular timer lasts 5 minutes from the moment you stop agressing each-other, which should be long enough to cover each jump.

Hope that helps. Smile
Jack Hayson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-08-16 14:30:43 UTC
Josette Dugas wrote:
But when you say web are you talking about the escort ship locking on you and engaging a stasis web?

Yes.
You need to be moving at 75% of yourmaximum speed for entering warp.

Let's imagine your ship can fly 100m/s and needs 10 seconds to accelerate to that speed.
To go into warp you'd need to accelerate to 75m/s which would take 7.5 seconds. (in reality it's not linear, but let's disregard that)

Now you have a webbing alt. A web reduces your maximum speed by 60%.
So when webbed your top speed would be 40m/s and your minimum speed for warping 30m/s.

You start accelerating (without being webbed) up to 30m/s in 3 seconds and THEN you apply webs which reduces your maximum speed and as such your minimum speed for warping. Since the webifier doesn't reduce your current speed you are now able to enter warp and only needed 3 seconds of acceleration.

With stronger webs it's even faster.
Kairos Antilles
Doomheim
#6 - 2015-08-16 14:42:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Kairos Antilles
David Therman wrote:
Josette Dugas wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Your post seems a little all over and I'm not sure exactly what you are asking but I'll explain how people used to web big ships into warp. The mechanic has changed a little. It still works but I've heard not as well as it used to. I'll be honest I've not tried it in years but here is the explanation of the mechanics anyway.

So the prerequisites for entering warp are that you need to be aligned to your destination within ( I believe ) 5% and moving at least 75% of your current speed. I also believe that there is a maximum on that speed but am uncertain and since it does not pertain to this discussion won't mention it further.

So basically if you ship is aligned and you waiting for your speed to go up and then you web the ship it's current potential max speed will become about 60% less so you will likely enter warp immediately but at the very least faster.

Bumping is when you ram into a ship that is trying to enter warp in order to keep if from aligning thus preventing if from warping.


But when you say web are you talking about the escort ship locking on you and engaging a stasis web? I guess that's what I'm not sure about. So you are saying that if you are aligned and try to gain speed with a big ship having an ally put a stasis web on you will move you into warp a lot quicker?

What I am trying to avoid is getting caught by a small ship camping at a gate and bumping my fighter around pretty much for as long as they feel like with no real recourse other than to enjoy the spin and wait for the gank squad :)


Pretty much, but seeing as a standard meta/t2 web has a range of 10km, it's preferable if you use a ship that has a bonus to web range, because you can end up de-cloaking further away then that more often then not... and that few seconds of having your escort get into range could make all the difference. Something like the Cruor, if you don't have the SP for a Huginn/Loki. Oh, and it's also best if you fit 2/3 webs, 1 alone won't get it into warp instantly.

In answer to aggression/weapon timers, just invite your escort to a duel; that particular timer lasts 5 minutes from the moment you stop agressing each-other, which should be long enough to cover each jump.

Hope that helps. Smile


Hyena with double-webs - fully skilled in Electronic Attack Ships will net a 30km web range. When jumping between regions, you can end up ~60km from your freighter - will need to try to burn toward the freighter BEFORE giving the freighter the command to warp to the next gate, and maintain cloak until the webber is in range.

A targeting rig to shorten lock time even more doesn't hurt either.

edit: Also, wait for the freighter to hit warp velocity (the target lock will disappear) before sending the webber onward - it is possible to disengage the webs due to warping before the freighter goes into warp, leaving it vulnerable while the webber speeds away.
Josette Dugas
Industrial United Holdings
#7 - 2015-08-16 15:32:40 UTC
All very good suggestions, but doesn't it seem to b a lot to go through to counter a frig from bumping you for like forever Smile

Thank you all
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#8 - 2015-08-16 16:34:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Do Little
Webbing works because your ship is stopped and omni-aligned when it lands at a gate. If a freighter has a top speed of 100 m/s a 60% web will reduce that to 40 m/s and a second 60% web will reduce it to 16 m/s. You will warp at 75% of top speed or 12 m/s - practically instant, even with a freighter. Because you are omni-aligned after jumping, there is no wait while the ship aligns - you can warp sideways or even backwards.

If a freighter is already moving, this doesn't work - you need to wait while it aligns so you can't web after undocking or after you have been bumped.

If you are being bumped, first step is right click your ship in space and click "stop my ship".
Second step is adjust your camera so you are looking forward over the back of the ship.
If there is something dead ahead or a few degrees off your bow - right click it and warp. Because the bump will have you travelling at top speed, you should warp instantly. If you don't, stop your ship and try again after the next bump. There is a lot of junk in space - asteroid belts, anomalies, planets, etc... even a good bumper will eventually align you to something you can warp to.

Another option is to right click on your ship and select "log off safely". You will need to stop your ship and turn off any active modules first. As long as you don't have an aggression timer - and you shouldn't, bumping is not considered an aggressive act under the rules of the game, your ship will leave space in 30 seconds. Get a friend to scout the system before you log back in.

Edit: You need to be in the same corp with "Friendly fire" legal or the freighter pilot needs to invite the webber to a duel. Both will have timers but they will usually expire before you get to the next gate - webber may need to wait a few seconds. Hyena and Rapier are the best ships - any fast frigate i.e. Atron will do the job.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-08-16 17:49:35 UTC
do note that if you are above 100% of your maximum speed, you will not warp until you get under that
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2015-08-17 01:28:23 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
do note that if you are above 100% of your maximum speed, you will not warp until you get under that

I think that the number is over 100%. It's like 105% or 125% but conceptually I think you are correct.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2015-08-17 01:52:34 UTC
Everything people are saying about small ships getting to a freighter quicker I doubt will make a difference. A freighter takes a while to Align. anything smaller than a BS should be able to make it within web range in plenty of time. As for bonused webs and multiple webs, I doubt it will make a difference.

You have to keep in mind align time. iirc that is what changed. Ships used to instantly align and the graphic of it happening slowly was just that a graphic only and had nothing to do with the mechanic. We used to have freighters warping sideways back in the day. Now-a-day however I'm pretty sure that there is an actual align time and someone can correct me if I am wrong but I think the web can slow down your align time as well. So now if you web before you are aligned I believe it can work against you.

Also I'm pretty sure that it takes longer to align than it does to get to a speed that is 75% of 60% of your max un-webbed speed or 45% of your max, un-webbed speed.

And as far as preventing bumping I think the web would only make that worse since it would increase your align time.

As a disclaimer this is my understanding of how it works one that is backed up with a minor amount of playing around with the mechanic before and after the warp changes but that is going back years so my information could be wrong or outdated.

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#12 - 2015-08-17 02:30:10 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#13 - 2015-08-17 04:19:08 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
do note that if you are above 100% of your maximum speed, you will not warp until you get under that

I think that the number is over 100%. It's like 105% or 125% but conceptually I think you are correct.


I also believe it to be 125% but am not certain.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Josette Dugas
Industrial United Holdings
#14 - 2015-08-17 13:16:42 UTC
Do Little wrote:
.... snip


Another option is to right click on your ship and select "log off safely". You will need to stop your ship and turn off any active modules first. As long as you don't have an aggression timer - and you shouldn't, bumping is not considered an aggressive act under the rules of the game, your ship will leave space in 30 seconds. Get a friend to scout the system before you log back in.



Actually this seems like the best all around option, my escort can simply sit back and monitor the warp out. Are there any downsides? What if the bumpers friends show up and start to open fire, am I then a sitting duck? Can the bumper start the aggression timer by shooting at me? I'm not very savvy about this mechanic and I don;t want to learn at the expense f the ship :)

Also could my escort help by counter bumping the bumper?
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#15 - 2015-08-17 14:03:37 UTC
Counter bumping a bumper is incredibly difficult - you're aiming for a faster moving, smaller, more agile target than the bumper is having to.

Logging off removes all SP bonuses to your ship, so results in a reduction of EHP as you lose your shield and armour skills, so should a safe-log off fail, you should log back in to regain those bonuses.

If you log off and get aggressed (which they will do, usually with a crappy disposable rookie ship), you will then warp off grid but remain in space whilst your aggression timer ends, the gankers will probe you down and continue bumping/chaining aggression timers as required whilst they gather more pilots for an actual gank.

If you're already being bumped, the chances of survival/rescue are incredibly slim - prevention is better than the cure.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2015-08-17 16:58:45 UTC
Make sure your limited engagement hasn't expired if you are using duel requests to web a character in a different corp. It's best to leave your safety on at least yellow for this. I may/may not have experienced a hilarious (sad) Rapier loss to CONCORD a few months ago. Roll

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Titan's Lament

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#17 - 2015-08-17 18:05:57 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
do note that if you are above 100% of your maximum speed, you will not warp until you get under that

I think that the number is over 100%. It's like 105% or 125% but conceptually I think you are correct.


I also believe it to be 125% but am not certain.

I'm not sure that is a mechanic. align with mwd on, turn off, still insta warp, for extra lulz use an oversized mwd. That said there may be an issue with warping to a place where you are not already aligned to, as I think there are some agility issues. going 1600m/s and getting webbed down to 12m/s and trying to warp out will take a while. but if you are already aligned it usually goes quick. and if you aren't moving it takes the same amount of time.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#18 - 2015-08-17 18:56:40 UTC
I'm not aware of having to slow-down to warp.

This would affect a lot of ships if it existed, and certainly be annoying, and widely hated.

Alignment (+/- 2 degrees) would be a more likely factor.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-08-17 22:40:55 UTC
i think its fine if you're fully aligned to something already, however if you're a tiny bit off I've always found you'll never warp when above your max speed
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-08-18 09:09:34 UTC
I don't think that 125% thing exists. 5 degrees is a very tiny cone, and if your ship is massive enough with a high enough inertia modifier, it will have an exceedingly difficult time turning while moving over max speed preventing the warp.

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