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I think Lina Ambre deserves a apology...
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Foley Aberas Jones
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-08-15 02:18:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Foley Aberas Jones
Hi IGS.
Im Salty at the moment at the recent breaking news from the Scope...

Drifters attacking again? Thats some **** that we need to know, So Lina Ambre was just using her silky voice to deliver us the news on the attack, Good ****..


But then Ren Karetta Decided to jack the mic from Lina when she was telling s about the attack

Ren that was really rude of you mate, i think you owe Lina a apology...


Yeah sure..gotta rally the Capsuleers loyal to the Empire...But im pretty sure that the real loyalists of the Empire were already moving their ass when the first seconds of that report started, you don't need to interrupt the woman when shes already telling us the situation just to tell us about some call to arms..

She already had a hard time telling us the story with all the static and low quality audio in the footage, you just had to make it harder for her to deliver her coverage

Come on Ren,...That was just plain rude and you know it...You could had at least waited before you jacked the mic, how would you like it if i got up on stage and jacked the microphone from you when you are receiving some music award or something?
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-08-15 05:20:30 UTC
I agree. The Scope is deplorable as far as a reputable news agency. At least Gutter Press has presentation and form, if nothing else.
The Leopardess
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2015-08-16 03:23:29 UTC  |  Edited by: The Leopardess
It is highly irregular to give combat orders over a media feed. I do not approve. You are right to be salty about it. Also he only got into his position because of his family influence, that man has never been in a real battle as a capsuleer. He gets obsessed about odd things, like rooting out Angel and Serpentis "hives" and other such Gallentean political nonsense. The Empress knows what she is doing, no doubt, but I wouldn't be surprised if the man was later found to be quite insane. The time for scripture is before and after battle, during only makes you look like a crazy or an inattentive sycophant who pays lip service to the Divine.

No official orders were issued to the 24th Imperial Crusade, or to the CVA, either from the Navy or through our superiors. I had to find out about it in Gutter Press during morning tea, and the CEO of IG, a central CVA organization found out from me.

Just what is the Navy playing at?

龴ↀ◡ↀ龴
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#4 - 2015-08-16 03:45:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
The Leopardess wrote:
It is highly irregular to give combat orders over a media feed. I do not approve. You are right to be salty about it. Also he only got into his position because of his family influence, that man has never been in a real battle as a capsuleer.


He was right there fighting at Safizon, along with hundreds of naval ships.

Quote:
No official orders were issued to the 24th Imperial Crusade, or to the CVA, either from the Navy or through our superiors. I had to find out about it in Gutter Press during morning tea, and the CEO of IG, a central CVA organization found out from me.

Just what is the Navy playing at?


The 24th Imperial Crusade is not a military. Where do people keep getting this idea? The 24IC is a militia comprised of contracted mercenaries. We do not get orders. We are contracted to take our own initiative in defending the Empire, against all enemies of the Empire.
The Leopardess
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2015-08-16 05:37:14 UTC  |  Edited by: The Leopardess
Really I don't think that's true. Just because you're in a mercenary corp that is enlisted in the Crusade doesn't mean the whole Capsuleer branch of the Navy is a group of mercenaries. The Crusade has issued priority commands at the request of people with significant authority before and will do it again, and those groups have to follow those orders. I just hope that in the future they start by fixing whatever this problem is with the information pipeline.

You have to admit communications is really terrible when it comes down to the general shouting out orders over a Gallentean owned channel to every Empire in the galaxy to ""do our duty" as if we are some wayward slaver hound needing to relieve ourselves.

And then the people who can actually do something about it find out the next day. Peculiar.

It all seems very suspicious to me. Maybe this is all part of the Drifter's attack.

龴ↀ◡ↀ龴
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#6 - 2015-08-16 05:57:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
The Leopardess wrote:
Really I don't think that's true. Just because you're in a mercenary corp that is enlisted in the Crusade doesn't mean the whole Capsuleer branch of the Navy is a group of mercenaries.


Actually, it does. Here's how you can tell:

Military: Soldiers must meet strict entrance requirements. They then undergo several months or years of dedicated training. Following this, they are assigned to a specific unit, tasked in a specific area of space, and provided with all the equipment necessary to carry out their duty. This equipment is provided for free, but may not be tampered with, sold, or used for any purpose other than what the soldier is ordered to do with it. If the soldiers disobey their orders, leave their assigned area of space or unit, or disobey the rigid laws governing their conduct, they are removed from service and brought before military tribunal.

Privateers (Militia): Pilots must meet only extremely lax entrance requirements. Pilots undergo zero training. Pilots are members of privately owned and funded corporations, choose for themselves where to go and how to operate, and must purchase their own equipment. What directives they are given from any command structure are voluntary contracts that they may choose at their own whim to accept or deny. If they decline offered missions, quit their corporations, travel where ever they please, or break Imperial law, they are face no consequences beyond, at worst, a termination of contract.

The militia is not a military. We are privateers.We are private individuals hired to fight the enemies of the Empire, and are expected to take our own initiative. We are paid for our service, both in loot from destroyed enemies of the state and with limited license to purchase equipment from naval warehouses.

Quote:
The Crusade has issued priority commands at the request of people with significant authority before and will do it again, and those groups have to follow those orders.


Where? When? When has this happened? Please cite it. While priority REQUESTS have been made, such as His Highness Ardishapur's request for the 24IC to recover relics from Kourmonen, at no point have 24IC capsuleers been removed from service for refusing to act on those requests. This is because they are not orders, they are contracts. The Empire has to encourage the capsuleers to act on the request, by offering rewards for successful completion. In a military, we would be demanded to act on those orders and court martialed if we refused.

Militia pilots are private individuals given license to seek and destroy enemies of the state and offered the occasional mission assignment to which we may take or refuse at will.

PIE has received more direct orders from the Navy than any other militia corporation, and this is only because we take initiative and directly contact commanders like Grand Admiral Karetta in order to request clarifications and directives. Some people have remarked in the past that PIE has engaged the drifters without orders to do so. These people do not realize that we had in fact been in contact with navy officials several weeks prior.

Quote:
You have to admit communications is really terrible when it comes down to the general shouting out orders over a Gallentean owned channel to every Empire in the galaxy to ""do our duty" as if we are some wayward slaver hound needing to relieve ourselves.


What makes you think he was shouting orders over a Gallentean channel? It sounded to me like the reporter was instead tapping into Amarr or Local channels and re-broadcasting it over the news. This is, afterall, what the media is known to do.

Quote:
And then the people who can actually do something about it find out the next day. Peculiar.


The next day? PIE and CVA were both there present and actively rendering assistance to Grand Admiral Karetta and the Amarr Navy in defending the Empire. Over 500 navy vessels were rallied in its defense. Calls for independent support from capsuleers were given in local system channels.

As independent entities, we do not get direct orders. Those orders are sent down the actual chain of command, to the actual navy. We, us independent capsuleers who support the Empire out of individual loyalty or contract, are charged instead with looking out for the Empire's defense on our own initiative, and being always ready for when the call to arms is sounded. The call to arms was sounded, and those of us who maintain vigil answered.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#7 - 2015-08-16 08:46:10 UTC
The Leopardess wrote:
Really I don't think that's true. Just because you're in a mercenary corp that is enlisted in the Crusade doesn't mean the whole Capsuleer branch of the Navy is a group of mercenaries.


The whole capsuleer branch of the navy are military capsuleers and not part of the 24th Imperial Crusade militia...

The 24th IC is a shell distributing lettres de marque to freelance capsuleers...
iyammarrok
Drunken Beaver Mining
Gnawthority
#8 - 2015-08-16 09:38:28 UTC
Hate to break it to you kitty, but all of the CEWPA militias are mercenary outfits.

the fact that all you have to do to gain entry is 'not have negative standings' should be a bit of a hint in that regard.

It also means that, other than as a mark of respect, any rank gained within the militias means absolutely nothing outside a shiny pin to wear on formal occasions.

Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#9 - 2015-08-16 10:25:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
What for? An imperial system was assaulted by a very real threat to not only the Empire but all humans in the cluster. Grand Admiral Karetta used a publicly broadcasting news stream (or disabled the frequency and superimposed it with his priority frequency, take your pick) where thousands of people were listening in for an emergency aid request against this threat. I do not see any reason that warrants the need for an apology.

What I find more interesting is why the broadcast was interrupted at the end when Lina started to muse about why Drifters are so interested in Safizon. I wonder who or what cut her off there.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#10 - 2015-08-16 12:31:48 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
What for? An imperial system was assaulted by a very real threat to not only the Empire but all humans in the cluster. Grand Admiral Karetta used a publicly broadcasting news stream (or disabled the frequency and superimposed it with his priority frequency, take your pick) where thousands of people were listening in for an emergency aid request against this threat. I do not see any reason that warrants the need for an apology.

What I find more interesting is why the broadcast was interrupted at the end when Lina started to muse about why Drifters are so interested in Safizon. I wonder who or what cut her off there.



I believe this report indicated the reporter was attacked on site by Drifters. I think that might explain the frequent cut outs and the sudden end of the transmition.

Quote:
On location live for the fierce firefight, The Scope's own Lina Ambre reported on the first stages of the relentless assault by Drifter forces, before her Dragoon class Opux Yacht was lost to a squadron of Drifter vessels, and her capsule was destroyed in the ensuing melee. Lina is currently safe and well, recovering at The Scope's Headquarters in Orvolle after a full medical assessment.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
The Leopardess
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2015-08-16 21:45:53 UTC
Capsuleers cannot be bound so a rigid structure of ranks wouldn't work. They often go crazy and have to take leave for weeks or months, understandably. The whole Navy needs to have an inquisition into its practices. If I were in charge I would start by restructuring the communication structure entirely. It seems like a very poor use of resources to have an entire division of capsuleers willing to fight for the Empire just sitting around when they have an entire intel channel available. It is mandatory for anyone in the Crusade to be logged into that channel. Yet none of my contacts in the Crusade seem to have recieved orders through that channel.

That's just **** poor leadership.

Also I find it curious PIE knew about this threat weeks before. That means the Navy also knew. So, the Navy ordered you to engage the drifters first?

龴ↀ◡ↀ龴
Arrendis
TK Corp
#12 - 2015-08-16 22:44:57 UTC
The Leopardess wrote:
Also I find it curious PIE knew about this threat weeks before. That means the Navy also knew. So, the Navy ordered you to engage the drifters first?


Everyone's known the Drifters would hit Safizon again since at least the incident in Sarum Prime. Here, news flash:

The Auctoritas is being commissioned on the 21st. In Safizon.

Who's gonna be surprised when the Drifters attack?
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#13 - 2015-08-16 23:07:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
The Leopardess wrote:
Capsuleers cannot be bound so a rigid structure of ranks wouldn't work.


They can be bound, they just aren't. It is the failing of CONCORD that allows us such unrestricted freedom. Cloning should be abolished, or at least control of the cloning centers should be turned over to empire authorities so that they can enforce the law. The Capsule Pilot Act should be repealed and capsuleers should be placed under the authority of the empires. There should have never been such a thing as an independent capsuleer.

Quote:
It seems like a very poor use of resources to have an entire division of capsuleers willing to fight for the Empire just sitting around when they have an entire intel channel available. It is mandatory for anyone in the Crusade to be logged into that channel. Yet none of my contacts in the Crusade seem to have recieved orders through that channel.


I will agree that in such circumstances as the drifter attacks, navy officers and 24IC operators should use that channel to call for loyalist support. While that channel is not secured from hostile infiltration, it remains the primary official channel for relaying information to militia pilots.

Quote:
Also I find it curious PIE knew about this threat weeks before. That means the Navy also knew. So, the Navy ordered you to engage the drifters first?


We contacted the Navy after the drifters began appearing in our space and asked for clarification on the Empire's position and whether they would like us to engage them. We were told that the Empire was on high alert but that it was not yet a free fire situation. They told us that if that changed, they would inform us. They later did inform us at Mekhios during CVA's celebration, when Admiral Karetta and Commodore Rolti ordered all navy and loyalist forces to engage the drifters that had fired on navy ships. Additional calls for assistance were made during the invasions of Safizon.
Kontrahage
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-08-16 23:43:10 UTC
It is not our place to question the Lord Admiral.
Especially not in public.
The Leopardess
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2015-08-17 00:06:59 UTC
Forgive me if I detach your suckers from my person and exclude myself from your We and Our, unless you're talking about your imaginary friend.

The Admiral has absolutely no direct authority over me within the Empire, even if he would like to cut off my head the heads of my clones, and if the Navy's communication methodology is defunct I am going to point it out. Someone needs to be talking about our weak points so that they can be fixed, especially with all of you brainless sycophants floating around out there without a thought in your head about military superiority and how to fix stupid mistakes.

The djinn is out of the bottle now, capsuleers are independent, they will remain independent and any such laws, if put into place, would only strengthen the pirate factions. But they are never independent from God's law.

龴ↀ◡ↀ龴
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#16 - 2015-08-17 00:55:09 UTC
The Leopardess wrote:
The djinn is out of the bottle now, capsuleers are independent, they will remain independent and any such laws, if put into place, would only strengthen the pirate factions. But they are never independent from God's law.


The enemies of the inside have to be controlled. Giving people unrestricted freedom permits widespread sin and evil. That is against God's law. How can anyone that is pro-slavery be against punishing and placing shackles on those who disobey God's laws?
Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2015-08-17 02:38:27 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
The Leopardess wrote:
The djinn is out of the bottle now, capsuleers are independent, they will remain independent and any such laws, if put into place, would only strengthen the pirate factions. But they are never independent from God's law.


The enemies of the inside have to be controlled. Giving people unrestricted freedom permits widespread sin and evil. That is against God's law. How can anyone that is pro-slavery be against punishing and placing shackles on those who disobey God's laws?



You are both right of course.

CONCORD has made it so that independent Capsuleers will remain independant as long as they wish to be. Any attempts to further control Capsuleers within a governmental space would drive out a greater percentage of them. Some would remain, shackled to the whims of their governments. Most would make a beeline to Thera or NullSec.

But yes, there needs to be some additional control systems for HiSec systems. And they should be a part of the local government, not CONCORD.CONCORD needs to return to being an advisory board, not a law-enforcement agency.

Honor, tradition, faith. These are not enough to keep a Capsuleer tied to their government. In my father's day, a Matari commoner would never be allowed to speak among Holders, let alone as an equal. But our fair Lieutenant here, does so frequently. More often than not, her views are valid, but even when she is wrong, her mistakes are overlooked far more readily than her peers. Why? Because she is a Capsuleer. She can, at any time say, "Screw this, I'm leaving." And if she did, there is not thing one anyone in the galaxy could do or say about it.

Honor, tradition, faith? No, these are not enough. But they must suffice for now.

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#18 - 2015-08-17 05:45:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
The Leopardess wrote:
The djinn is out of the bottle now, capsuleers are independent, they will remain independent and any such laws, if put into place, would only strengthen the pirate factions. But they are never independent from God's law.

Then get out of empire space! Live in the Null sec space that you can call your own empire! As long as you do go back to empire space, you abide by their laws. Period.

With regards to poor leadership: I have only after the incident learned about what happened in Safizon. I would very much welcome an opportunity to join some kind of mailing list or notification distributor that people can join to receive notifications for and that the Amarr Navy, Emperor Family and other authorities can use to send notifications for aid requests. A chat channel is completely insufficient for that as not everyone can join it, in particular not the 24IC channel, or monitors it closely as chatter and drivel would delude it. A notification distributor or mailing list that you can join but no one other than the Navy can send information through would be a lot easier to get information from.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#19 - 2015-08-17 05:56:04 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Then get out of empire space! Live in the Null sec space that you can call your own empire! As long as you do go back to empire space, you abide by their laws. Period.


You'll note, she's CVA.
Kontrahage
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2015-08-17 07:55:28 UTC
The Leopardess wrote:
Forgive me if I detach your suckers from my person and exclude myself from your We and Our, unless you're talking about your imaginary friend.

[...], especially with all of you brainless sycophants floating around out there without a thought in your head about military superiority and how to fix stupid mistakes.


I take exception to your tone.
Also, as said before, this is not the place to discuss sensitive matters.
Use the proper channels.
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