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The point is - having the same one size fit all approach to both poses and stations is silly. They serve distinct and different functions. The new pos 2.0 should remain destructible. The new station 2.0 - well having magic space fedex is an improvement and provides some penalty for losing the station, without being overly abusive.

Also the entrosis link has proven to be a terrible mechanic - less fun and more tedious than what it replaced. If ccp is hell bent on including the entrosis link it should be as an alternative to a structure grind without replacing it. If folk want to grind a structure because they have the dps and its quicker - why shouldnt they be able to? After all shooting things and space explosions is the whole point of the game.

I don't know why dev feel safe in Citadel. I feel safe in NPC station.

I have mixed feelings about the citadels after reading the blogs. Null sec gets one deal, wh has another (similar mechanic but completely different environment). Neither have balance imo.

I still have assets somewhere in null, just collecting dust, not sure when and if I will recover any of it, but with the new structures I would just have them sit at an npc station, with faster recovery? Seems like a buff for personal assets. Don't care for null much but the system is clear and I get it.

However......

I live in a WH, every day could be the day someone comes knocking. With POS there are ships that are ready to be sacrificed, anything of value just sits in a cargo bay ready to cloak up when the time comes.

Citadels will only work for item safety if I have another one up and running in the system, so it looks like nothing will change for me really? Ships will get sacrificed still, except now they just float in space for a few days?

Then what happens? Did I miss something?

If I don't have a citadel in the system they will eventually show up in a can that can be scanned? (would that mean that going from random stuff that drops now its all if there is no citadel to deliver to in the wh?)

How long do I have the option to select a target location in a WH? When does the timer start? When does it end?

Too many devils in the details still not known.

Wow didn't realize people are soo attached to their pods. But agree, since your invulnerable logged of in space, its stupid that you would be vulnerable in this case.

Overall the idea of asset safety is a good idea. I even like the current idea in WH space. Since i do still lose all my stuff if i get evicted. But perhaps some sort of drop would be in order if it can't get delivered.

Overall however looking forward to deploying these sooner rather than later.

I see where you come from with looting NPCs and all, yes you can add this narrative and say it works - personally I still feel it would be a major change away from the game i know and its inner logic.

As you put it the asset safety is "needed" indeed - but its only needed cause CCP decided to lump together the formerly completely different entities of POS and Outpost

For a long time people have asked for some minor repairs on POS mechanics and rights management, but what do we get? CCP just decides to completely abolish the whole concept and replace it with something entirely different .... and even drag the outposts into this halfbaked mess.

In the end a lot of variety and flexibility gets discontinued in this universe to be replaced by some unified halfbaked generic bs structure concept (that actually isnt anything more than a slightly modified ripoff of their general ship model).

This super simplifying approach surely will skyrocket the "sense of wonder" and longterm fascination within the old and new playerbase .... (do i need to add the sarcasm flags here?)

I agree with this completely. Entosis link being a mind-machine link, its guaranteed hacking capability is one thing, but the idea of it turning an object into a wreck would be more suitable for a game called Magic Online.

Regarding this magic module's guaranteed capabilities, there should be a module for citadels that counteracts entosis operation locally. i.e. Redundant Computer Array or off grid (in networking sense) Secondary Control Mainframe. Citadels fitted with such electronic resilience modules would have drastically increased/decreased entosis capture/defense times. As a penalty for fitting defensive modules, citadels could have their other services affected in a negative way, i.e. slow production, no refinery, etc.

How to abuse this in WH space:

1. Build some carriers and dreads in a C4 WH,
2. Destroy your outpost(probably unrigged)
3. Wait for new inhabitants to move in,
4. Watch them get richer and richer,
5. Rebuild outpost, transfer assets,
6. Surprise, now this WH has waaaay too much BSes/capitals to be allowed under normal circumstances.

Bad idea for WHs.


Suggestion:
1. Outposts have personal hangars of *limited* size, which get sent to deep space and await the owner(or a person this owner gives permission) to retrieve them,
2. All other items drop with standard drop rate.
3. Players docked and in a ship are sent into deep space upon outpost destruction, after logging in they wake up in the ship, which is damaged with random armor/hull damage of 0-99%; with bias for higher damage for bigger ships.(This is emergency kind of a microjump)

No magical transportation, no "bag of holding" titan transportation, incentive to blow up stuff and loot it.
Everyone wins :P

This is basically what I brought up in the thread on mooring. It's hard to get the balance right when it comes to supercaps and risk; too far one way and their pilots will never use these new structures, too far the other and it's not really EVE. I think the trick lies in making things largely safe, but still leaving a window for savvy opponents to nail their target:

I've been thinking about this for the past few days. I probably shouldn't bother even providing more feedback, but these are some things to consider and this is more how I would do it:

1. I read the Dev Blogs several times. The word "killmail" appears once in the I feel safe in Citadel City devblog, but only to say that we all love them. It does not appear at all in the Citadels, sieges, and you [Oxford comma added because I am not a peasant, but am a pedant]. CCP has not stated how kill mails will work. Or who will get them. Or what information they will show. I do not consider myself driven by kill mails, but let's be honest: We all like them. If we are not going to be able to scoop 50% of the possessions up from the wreck, we should at least get a kill mail identifying what was destroyed and what was impounded. And somehow, everyone involved in the fight should get that kill mail - not just the dude with the Entosis. I'll be honest, I'm really quite shocked that CCP has omitted to fundamental part of what drives Eve players.

2. As I have mentioned elsewhere on these forums, destruction should involve actually shooting weapons. My post from back in March is still remarkably on point: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5613421#post5613421

I am okay with Entosis as a means of changing ownership of a structure, but asset destruction should come from people shooting at the structure. Preferably with Dreadnoughts.

3. As mentioned in paragraph 2, I would like to see Dreadnoughts required to actually destroy the structure. Ideally the system would be designed to require more than one siege cycle - no matter how many you bring. The way I see it, each structure should have three layers - shield, armor, and structure. Average DPS for a Dreadnought is about 10,000. Multiply that by 5 minutes. Adjust based on size/value of the structure - you want the attacker to commit some significant percentage of a structure's value to the field in order to destroy it quickly - it should take more commitment to destroy an XL structure than a medium structure. So, hypothetically, the shield layer on an XL Citadel could be destroyed by 25 Dreadnoughts in five minutes. Between each layer, there is a 2.5 minute reinforcement timer. Thus, in something like twenty minutes, 25 Dreadnoughts could destroy an XL structure. If someone wanted to bring more ships or fire Doomsday Devices at it to speed it up further, they could do that as well, but you would still have a minimum time on the field, and you would be making a larger commitment. The defender could also show up and attempt to save the structure.

4. Once you make it so that the attacker has to at least commit some serious firepower on the field in order to destroy the structures, then you can get rid of the stupid safety mechanics. You can also now properly reward the attacker for bringing the pain to the fight. If a structure dies, it becomes an indestructible wreck. That wreck contains 50% of ALL the stuff in the structure - except for the structure's rigs.

5. One way to then add some more depth to it is as follows: Each indestructible wreck has a number of salvageable nodes on it. Each node contains one player's stuff (no name on the node). People can now salvage each node to unlock stuff from it. Thus, someone might salvage my ship hangar node to find that I have a Nyx in it. Another might find that his node contains only a rookie ship. People close enough can now loot all the stuff stored in that hangar.

6. As the salvagers cut through the scrap metal, their bays gradually fill up with metal scraps, salvage, and parts from the structure itself. To make it more interesting for them, and add an element of skill, there is a salvaging minigame, which looks like cutting through different parts of a wrecked space station to find the storage areas, living quarters, ship hangars, fuel depots, etc within each node. Players would learn to optimize their path, trying to avoid cutting through heavily armored areas to find easier pathways into the lucrative spots. There could be parts you want to avoid, like cutting into the chemical storage plant or nuclear reactor on the station, which would at least damage/blow up your salvaging ship and others very close to it. Players learn to recognize what different parts of the node look like - chewing on some parts is more lucrative than others. Some parts of the node will be more likely to contain cargo, other parts, ships, etc. The game would be continuous and affected by the other players (i.e. I am racing my friends to find the best deposits). Someone else who comes along later can see that 50% of the nodes have been salvaged. The wreck remains in space until it all the nodes have been completely salvaged.

...proximity restrictions...