Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I speak of my own authority and for my own self and never claimed any different.

As for what the Devs think on this topic you can go back and read plenty of dev blogs and watch several fanfest videos that either directly address this question or touch on the subject in some way. My summary of my take on that is that the CCP Devs understand that they have a niche game with a niche audience. They are also aware that they are one of the oldest if not the oldest MMOs out there and this game saw stead growth, granted it was slow but slow steady growth is good, from day one of the game up until the jita riot and that was a result of them trying to leave the niche and become like other MMOs.

I personally feel like they learned their lesson after the jita riots and now will stick more closely to their target audience. However if you dig around you can find dev blogs where they flat out say that they understand Eve is not for everyone. It is a brutal hard core game that many people won't like. But they do have their target audience and hopefully now are catering to it.


As for this I am not going back and reading your post. Come back to me when you've been playing this game for a few years and get to be experienced and then have started a fresh alt and play it again with low SP but experience. I've done that as have a lot of other vets and what you realize is t hat low skill points does not hold you back from anything. You are blaming your lack of skill and game knowledge on skill points.

I think this game does an excellent job of giving you skills at a rate that you can effectively take them in and make use of them. Giving them to you any faster won't help your learning curve issue. And if you think this is not true then go buy a high skill point character and watch what happens. These forums are littered with the tears of young players that purchased high skill point characters and still had all the same issues when they though skill points would save them.

In WoW a level 10 character does not stand a chance against a level 100. Literally the level 100 could walk away from his computer and leave his house and go to the movies and his character would not die with the level 10 beating on him. In eve a 2 week old character in a frigate can kill a 10 year old player in a battleship. Also there is no structured 5 v 5 or 40 v 40 PvP in Eve that limits levels and gear score so that all players are of the same level and with similar gear so in your 1000 man fleet fighting sov warfare you'll have to convince me how skill points is keeping you back from enjoying or participating in any kind of game play.

As far as there being more than PvP in this game, I am a total carebear. As someone not interested in PvP I can tell you this most certainly is a PvP focused game and the PvPers and the Devs will tell you the same thing.

Here is the question that you did not answer.
If they join up and start losing the expensive ships that high SP would allow them to fly would they stay in the game long enough for their personal skills to catch up and minimize or eliminate those expensive ship losses?

I'm sure that would be the next whine thread.

"I have the skills to fly [insert bling boat X here] but I don't have the ISK. New players should start with 1 billion ISK."

Arguments in favor of fun, new players, and player retention would be made. Me? I'd be making and biomassing characters after transfering that ISK to my main and various alts. You think PLEX prices are high now!

Oh, and depending on where that 35 million SP go, making ISK can be stupid easy. I'd put a chunk into PI so I could rake in the ISK there. So, even if they aren't getting the ISK and the SP to jump into [insert bling boat X here] right away, they'd likely be getting into it well before they understood the game's mechanics to fly such boats and not lose them with a hi

Wondering what EvE you play because in the one I am in players like this simply convert real cash money into ISK by buying plex, no doubt some of them probably convert cash directly into ISK through various sources around the internet.
If you have never heard of plex before or how one can legally acquire them from outside the game then I suggest you do a little research on it before posting stuff like this.

We are not all that far apart on this. We both agree that SP and ISK can be crucial issues to retention of new players in this game.
Where we differ is at what level these interconnected factors need to be set for those new players.

35 million SP for a first day character is not just a bad idea it is ******** as is the current starting level.

CCP tried to balance this by adding bonus re-maps and that was the wrong way to go as well since new character skills train so fast the remaps are for all practical purposes irrelevant for the first 2 months or so at least.

So where is the proper balance for a new character?
Personally I would like to see CCp remove the bonus remaps and other gimmicks they have tried to ease the SP issue and start new character with an already trained solid set of basic skills. So I guess that would open up a debate on what would be a solid set of basic skills.

Do not confuse killing rats with killing a real player who has some skill.

Ever engage a player target right click auto orbit?


Let me rephrase...ever engage a smart player target right click auto orbit?


Bad things happen in the latter case. They do a crazy ivan (hard jink), the autopilot goes wonky real fast. Worst case its course correction is a straight 180 degree turn. Smart player takes this chance to rip you a new one and have their way with it. It allows them to close really fast. You are also at virtually 0 traversal.....you get tagged hard.

Or it gives the few seconds for target to warp off.

Worth noting autopilot does this on target hops as well. Test this in pve if you'd like. Line up 5 targets....orbit each one. Kill target 1, set orbit on 2. This flightpath will be anything but smooth and graceful most times. Do this at fleet level ops and your ship will all over the place really. This can be bad...especially if playing in falloff range. Those x-over points can be hair thin. Cross them and watch the damage drop fast.


Manual flight gives the benefit of better range control in changing situations. It can almost be like pool. You aren't thinking sink the 5 ball. You are thinking I hit 5 ball a certain way to drop it and line up the shot to follow from the rebound of the 5 shot.

None of this is relevant with how SP limits finding an empty, expensive ship in space and finding the inability of getting in it. Yet standard overview-commands plausibly being a form of autopilot is an interesting idea.

..Nor does the efficiency of manual-piloting / other piloting information seem relevant for the level of sustain with fresh subs. There's plenty of readiness for developing skill with trying a game, but what posts are mentioning is that SP undermines the natural progression of gameplay and learning. The undermining of learning is shown in studies as promoting "aggressive" behavior, because it's not fulfilling development..

Do not confuse Star Citizen with Eve, they only thing that they have in common is the underlying theme. Star Citizen has more in common with SWG than it does Eve, and it's certainly not aimed at the same demographic.

TL;DR CCP are unlikely to ruin and kill their game in order to make WoW in space. They're not looking to be players in the mass market, they seem to like making a challenging, unique, game and being leaders in a niche market.

Did you deliberately misquote me? FPS have servers the size of 16-100 players max. And nobody plays the same one for much more than a year. Not the same as a MMO at all. Not even in the same galaxy.

Progression has worked so well for making players stick with a game for longer that even instant gratification games like COD and BF have adopted level systems.

So eve is a game that can keep all players with skill and socialization, but also keeps players with progression.

Win win.

What is the non-interactivity you refer to?
What is the n+1 sp+1 problem?