These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Jump Fatigue Feedback

First post First post First post
Author
Leisha Miranen
Doomheim
#461 - 2016-01-18 18:43:07 UTC
Ah yes, jump fatigue: working as intended for restricting capital projection while ******* up black ops and anything that uses Jump Bridges for rapid response gudfites in the process.
Dograzor
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#462 - 2016-01-21 10:08:54 UTC
CCP, it has been 5 months now from the start of this thread and we are still waiting on your acknowledgement or answers for the given feedback, please sort it.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#463 - 2016-01-26 14:18:11 UTC
xttz wrote:
The concept of jump fatigue is much better than the execution. While EVE did need travel limits to be introduced, they've been done in a hamfisted way that is very unintuitive for players and reduces scope for player choice.

Despite a stated goal to reduce long-distance travel time for capital ships, the current formula actually punishes multiple shorter jumps more than long ones due to the way fatigue builds up. Thanks to the short max ranges for most ships and a fixed lower bound on the fatigue formula it detracts from the sandbox element of Eve.



That is true. And I think everyoen shoudl have 1 free jump per day and that would help a lot casual localized movement that need a near immediate return.
xttz wrote:

It's also rather convoluted from a mathematical point of view. How many of you can predict the overall impact of fatigue and jump delay from a route without using out-of-game tools?



That is nonsense.. the math involved is super easy and easily doable within mind aloen for anyoen capable of getting a driver's license.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#464 - 2016-01-26 14:23:51 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

That is nonsense.. the math involved is super easy and easily doable within mind aloen for anyoen capable of getting a driver's license.


Really? Where in game can I find the LY between systems?

Serious question. The only IG tools I know of only show the binary in/out of range result.

It's not hard math, but it sure is harder when the key variable is obfuscated.... ;)
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#465 - 2016-01-26 15:27:47 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

That is nonsense.. the math involved is super easy and easily doable within mind aloen for anyoen capable of getting a driver's license.


Really? Where in game can I find the LY between systems?

Serious question. The only IG tools I know of only show the binary in/out of range result.

It's not hard math, but it sure is harder when the key variable is obfuscated.... ;)


The key variable you are referring to have always been obfuscated anyway. It's not fatigue that made the distance between system hidden.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#466 - 2016-01-26 15:37:30 UTC
Yeah because it never really mattered. Those times when it did, it blocked the jump (out of range/out of gas) so there's nowhere I'm aware off, barring the likes of dotlan, which shows the distances involved.
TREX 600E
but 50 dollars is 50 dollars
#467 - 2016-01-26 15:58:47 UTC  |  Edited by: TREX 600E
As someone who has come back to eve this jump timer is kinda brutal. Although I can see it's merits I think that it needs adjusted.

I would like to see the jump range increased on capitals upto 7.5ly.
As for the timer itself it should never really go over 5 days as it makes the game at times unplayable for me.
Balder Verdandi
Wormhole Sterilization Crew
#468 - 2016-01-26 17:05:23 UTC
TREX 600E wrote:
As someone who has come back to eve this jump timer is kinda brutal. Although I can see it's merits I think that it needs adjusted.

I would like to see the jump range increased on capitals upto 7.5ly.
As for the timer itself it should never really go over 5 days as it makes the game at times unplayable for me.



And the jump range on JF's needs to go back to 12 LY.

It makes logistics incredibly difficult for the null-sec logistics people, trying to get items to/from market and resupplying items for PvP/PvE in null.

I can understand why the nerf was done to capitals for force projection, but cutting the industry folks off at the knees never made sense.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#469 - 2016-01-27 06:44:12 UTC
Dograzor wrote:
CCP, it has been 5 months now from the start of this thread and we are still waiting on your acknowledgement or answers for the given feedback, please sort it.

They reduced max fatigue the next month
MIKE Commander
Setenta Corp
#470 - 2016-01-29 14:07:53 UTC
I believe the jump fatigue should be removed from the game or severely reduced and the jump changes moved back to original.
Since CCP introduced those changes i haven`t used any kind of capital ship, and a i know a lot of people in my position. I remember i used to build capitals and earn very good isk doing it. Now the capitals are way cheaper to be bought from the market then constructed, which can mean only one thing. Nobody uses capital ships as they used to.
If you want to bring back the capital ship fights and fix the things then bring back the normal jump ranges, and reduce the fatigue or remove it at all.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#471 - 2016-01-31 07:39:07 UTC
MIKE Commander wrote:
I believe the jump fatigue should be removed from the game or severely reduced and the jump changes moved back to original.
Since CCP introduced those changes i haven`t used any kind of capital ship, and a i know a lot of people in my position. I remember i used to build capitals and earn very good isk doing it. Now the capitals are way cheaper to be bought from the market then constructed, which can mean only one thing. Nobody uses capital ships as they used to.
If you want to bring back the capital ship fights and fix the things then bring back the normal jump ranges, and reduce the fatigue or remove it at all.


Mixed feelings on this. I think it will depend on how Caps are rebalanced. On the one hand it is good that a single battle cruiser isn't being hot dropped by 5 titans. On the other side it is a shame about how much content is lost and how much it makes moving feel like a choir.
RogueHunteer
Doomheim
#472 - 2016-01-31 08:57:48 UTC  |  Edited by: RogueHunteer
Some changes I would add to the system here ...

Reduce the jump fatigue for pods and mining ships...
With sov it takes a long time and investment to install and set up pos jump bridges can we get a reduce timer for using them. By 25%
KristyDawn
Hoover Inc.
Pandemic Legion
#473 - 2016-02-11 20:04:56 UTC
**** sucks
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#474 - 2016-02-11 20:05:52 UTC
Balder Verdandi wrote:
I can understand why the nerf was done to capitals for force projection, but cutting the industry folks off at the knees never made sense.

Industry projection, doubtless.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Tarra Nobilii
Sinntha Family
Synnatha
#475 - 2016-02-11 23:43:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarra Nobilii
Jump Ranges: I think current jump ranges are effective and acceptable but the map needs to be looked at. Moving from East/West is nearly impossible and the bottlenecks that exist are a bit extreme. Some regions, such as leaving Khanid, is a bit too hard. I understand the argument for having 'strategic systems' that exist within bottlenecks but I think the current form is a bit cancerous.
-modules that allow greater range would be interesting, especially if they were very large to prevent easy refitting. It would boost commerce and capital trading; capitals in their current form are easier to self destruct than move. Supers are deathtraps if isolated in specific regions. The addition of new low sec systems (either new systems or the lowing of sec status of others) would be fun...

Jump Fatigue: Annoying but probably functional. Worth a discussion but I have no constructive feedback. It makes jump bridges seem kinda broken. Titan portals are very limited now too (combined with aforementioned jump ranges).
-Ship based fatigue kinda makes sense too. Overall, I would be of the opinion of having slightly longer ranges with fatigue in place.

Alternative FLT drives: I have always hated the cyno system. It requires you to have a trusted partner or another alt just to move a capital. I want to be able to open my Capital Navigation screen and jump to the system (perhaps based on proximity to the star). I am totally ok with being vulnerable during this jump. A cyno can still exist but serve as a specific beacon for precise jumping. Perhaps a cyno could extend jump ranges and 'regular jumping' is still limited to 5ly. This would create some variance to jump plans and force some gamesmanship to hunters. Longer jumps to cut someone off would tag them with more fatigue...further adding a game element.
-I want to be able to warp in a direction. At present, I have to align to a celestial and make a bookmark. I should be able to point in a direction and turn on my warp. The inability to do this makes the star systems in eve seem more 'track based' like the "slot racing" toys from the 1980s. For space to be real, we need to be able to move around more freely [including more content to interact with within a starsystem: new structures are a move in this direction, sort of]

Sov Effects on Fatigue: I think we need to see numbers on these nerfed ('rebalanced') capitals. Would also need to know how new structures will be able to kill them (assuming capitals with fewer ehp). Capital sov bonues would be a huge boon to defenders and may prevent conflict. Once again, we do not have enough information.

Fatigue affecting combat: No constructive feedback but I can't see how this is good.

Move-mode for Capitals: I dont like anything with a timer. Many times pvp just 'happens' in eve...you need to be able to log on and fight at a moment's notice. Stuck in a 'mode' would be a major buzzkill. Action is far to sporadic in eve, as it is.

Active methods of reducing jump fatigue: Mentioned how large modules would be effective. Skills would be prohibitive to younger players/alliances. Drugs would work and could create new markets for players to make isk/production.

LOCAL CONTENT: THE most important thing in Eve. Scanning wormholes to find action, creating an alt to live in another region, and all related type challenges make Eve not fun. Regions should be unique...they should have strategic assets that do not give straight up isk but provide ways of interacting with environments to make isk. This is what players were asking for with occupancy based sov. Furthermore, other than the background (the literal background/wallpaper of space)...space is space. Moon harvesters are still ATM machines. We need things that force us to invest into structures, skills, and time into developing resources. This can be colonies, active moon material harvesting, more advanced exploration (Odyssey was a lame and ineffective expansion), structures that can be expanded upon over time, etc etc etc. Something that gives us a reason to build up our space. The more we build the more people want to come in and crush our dreams and take our stuff. Unique areas of space should not make you space rich for just living there but provide some variance in play style to actually do something different/fun. I think wormhole effects are very close to this concept. Something that allows/promotes you to master your bonuses/areas of space and is different than another system (in terms of bonuses). To use one other sci-fi example, Homeworld with the "gardens of kadesh"...is fun and interesting without being massively OP; effects on scanning (to allow the Kadesh to hold the area and surprise people) and having some resources. Nothing like this exists in eve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPV7z9jBRbs Other than in wormholes...no quasars, no black holes, no other unique and fun things about space exist. Eve needs some more stuff like this...not exclusive to wormholes. Having specific resources in different regions is a step back and allows an entity to dominate and monopolize a resource. Rather than have unique resources...perhaps unique ways to exploit them via interaction with the environment. Anything that allows us to interact with the space we call home develops an emotional attachment and makes it "home." This makes it appealing to raid, appealing to take, and appealing to stomp on for aggressors...adding what eve is all about. At present, it is better to withdrawal...let the aggressor take it....then take it back when they leave/get bored. This is not fun. People should invest into their space and make it theirs....only to have others try to take it from them.
Johnathan Severasse
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
United Federation of Conifers
#476 - 2016-02-11 23:51:47 UTC
Please fix jump range. The system is broken.
Act-Mack PVT
Adversity.
Snuffed Out
#477 - 2016-02-11 23:55:41 UTC
Jayne Fillon wrote:
First!

To answer your questions:

  1. Jump ranges are fine, they could be better, but they're okay. Keep capital/supercapital range equal.
  2. Jump fatigue needs to be capped at 120 hours so that Fatigue is ALWAYS gone by the next weekend
  3. Fatigue should remain character based, or people are just going to buy ships in duplicate and that's dumb.
  4. You should have a reduction in fatigue when returning to your capital system or point of origin.
  5. Jump fatigue should NOT affect combat effectiveness. At all. Ever.
  6. Move mode is a bandaid fix that isn't needed if the base mechanics themselves still allow enjoyable gameplay.
  7. Do not allow rigs or modules to reduce jump fatigue, but drugs would be okay if done right (w/ penalties etc).
  8. Local content means that I can fight in adjacent regions as much as I want, but not fight someone across the map.


Other suggestions:

  • Make the use of jump bridges have a flat 90% reduction in fatigue when used, regardless of ship type.
  • Give black ops battleships a reduction to jump fatigue.
  • Give other ways for players in deep nullsec to reach empire without having to blue everyone in between.
  • More suggestions as I think of them....


All bad info, everyone hates jaynes guts; so he can't fly capitals because he'd get helldunked and awoxed. So what the **** does he know about caps and Eve other than getting on the CSM after CCP executed manfred like JFK.
Baki Yuku
Doomheim
#478 - 2016-02-12 00:00:07 UTC
Jayne Fillon wrote:
First!

To answer your questions:

  1. Jump ranges are fine, they could be better, but they're okay. Keep capital/supercapital range equal.
  2. Jump fatigue needs to be capped at 120 hours so that Fatigue is ALWAYS gone by the next weekend
  3. Fatigue should remain character based, or people are just going to buy ships in duplicate and that's dumb.
  4. You should have a reduction in fatigue when returning to your capital system or point of origin.
  5. Jump fatigue should NOT affect combat effectiveness. At all. Ever.
  6. Move mode is a bandaid fix that isn't needed if the base mechanics themselves still allow enjoyable gameplay.
  7. Do not allow rigs or modules to reduce jump fatigue, but drugs would be okay if done right (w/ penalties etc).
  8. Local content means that I can fight in adjacent regions as much as I want, but not fight someone across the map.


Other suggestions:

  • Make the use of jump bridges have a flat 90% reduction in fatigue when used, regardless of ship type.
  • Give black ops battleships a reduction to jump fatigue.
  • Give other ways for players in deep nullsec to reach empire without having to blue everyone in between.
  • More suggestions as I think of them....


God I hope stupidity is not a genetic marker otherwise I can only pray that you never have kids.
120 Hours is still to long after the capital rebalance there should not be fatigue anymore AT ALL. Re-activision timer is more then good enough. If you can not get your dreads safe while sieging a tower within 5-10 minutes you deserve to loss them for being trash.
Range should be increased by 2.75ly which is what titan range used to be for a very good reason. To allow movment cross regions. These so called lowsec and nullsec chokepoints are stupid because all they do is allow certain groups to farm easy super kills.

Also you need to be able to find content outside your own space or region my friend because EVE does not have a population big enough to support that local content you speak off. Even if you move to get that local content you speak off that is gone after you trashed your enemy a few timers. There is no prolonged local conflict in eve because quite frankly there arent enough players and the space simply issnt worth it to keep losing ships for it when you can just move somewhere else and have the same riches unmolested.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#479 - 2016-02-12 17:56:16 UTC
Baki Yuku wrote:


Also you need to be able to find content outside your own space or region my friend because EVE does not have a population big enough to support that local content you speak off. Even if you move to get that local content you speak off that is gone after you trashed your enemy a few timers. There is no prolonged local conflict in eve because quite frankly there arent enough players and the space simply issnt worth it to keep losing ships for it when you can just move somewhere else and have the same riches unmolested.


This is a self snowballing problem. People don't find enough content so any they ever find will be farmed to depletion. This mean the guy getting farmed is much more likely to pack up and leave than stay as content if he know he's not at the right level to fight back. Completely dumpstering an enemy is the perfect way to make sure of one thing, it will take him more time to get back on his feet to be once again a source of content.
Eddy Eclipsis
WGA INCORPORATED
Friendly Probes
#480 - 2016-02-13 20:37:31 UTC
ITT: People who don't log into eve or tly caps commenting on something they have no firsthand experience with.