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Jump Fatigue Feedback

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Author
SilentAsTheGrave
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#361 - 2015-09-10 21:18:58 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
So, what did I learn from all that? Well, that Jump Fatigue sucks! You knew that already! But, with proper planning and patience, you can overcome it (like so many things in Eve).

Due to my careful management, the longest Jump Fatigue timer I got was about 3.5 hours (at the end of the night just before going to bed anyway). So, all the horror stories about "I came back to the game and got 30 days Jump Fatigue trying to move" are really just the result of impatience and poor planning.

What would I change? I would add a drug that lowers your jump fatigue timer by a set number of minutes each time you take it - but you can only take one at a time (as with every other booster).

Synth - 3 minutes
Standard - 20 minutes
Improved - 25 minutes
Strong - 30 minutes

As with the other boosters, they would have some drawbacks in the case of side effects. Probably to capacitor amount/recharge, armor amount, shield amount, armor repair, shield repair, resistances, etc.

Thus, if I jumped 5LY, then popped Strong Jump Fatigue Reduction Powder, I would go from a 60 minute fatigue timer to a 30-minute timer. After waiting twenty minutes, I would be back down to 10 minutes. I could then jump again with no huge penalty. And so on and so forth.

So the rich get to buy their way out of jump fatigue? **** that ****. Horrible idea.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#362 - 2015-09-11 03:51:09 UTC
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:

So the rich get to buy their way out of jump fatigue? **** that ****. Horrible idea.


Who are these poor people who own capital ships?

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#363 - 2015-09-11 10:28:15 UTC
One other thought occurred to me concerning Jump Fatigue... It's absolutely wonderful flying a Jump Freighter. I moved my Jump Freighter from Aridia to Vale in the same amount of time it took me to take my Carriers one 5LY jump and wait out the Jump Fatigue.

I jumped my three Carriers, logged them off in the station. Logged in the three cyno alts on those accounts. Jumped my Jump Freighter to those cyno alts. Jump cloned those cyno alts to the next three jumps. Jumped my Jump Freighter to Vale. Logged off my Cyno Alts and logged back in my Carrier pilots, in time to watch the last bit of my Jump Fatigue wear off.

That's pretty insane.

The other day I was listening to a Soundcloud of Black Legion's meetings, in which Elo was urging everyone to train for Blockade Runners and Black Ops, then apparently they were supposed to use the Blockade Runner to carry a packaged HAC? Or something like that?

Go big or go home, I say. If he really wanted to have Black Legion deploy quickly, just have them all train for Jump Freighter. They should already have the jump skils. You can carry six packaged Battleships or thirty packaged Cruisers and all the fittings you can ever use in a Jump Freighter. Rigs are cheap these days, so repackaging subcapital ships is not a big deal. It's clearly the fastest way to redeploy/move (apart from Interceptor). As long as you can go station to station (and with 10LY range, that is not hard), it's really easy to relocate.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#364 - 2015-09-11 10:40:41 UTC
BRs can be punted to covert cynos though, which is extremely useful if you're trying to move quietly because you don't see the cyno chain appearing on the map
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#365 - 2015-09-11 12:49:28 UTC
And BR and BLOPS combined cost less than JF and are easier to move because you do not attract unwanted attention in High sec if a fleet of BR rushs through a system. Imagine doing this with a JF fleet. In a BR, you can also take gates in Low sec or even Null sec without being in immediate danger of dying, and you can scout your BLOPS.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#366 - 2015-09-11 13:39:28 UTC
afkalt wrote:
BRs can be punted to covert cynos though, which is extremely useful if you're trying to move quietly because you don't see the cyno chain appearing on the map


You can do the same with suicide cynos. If you light the cyno with 19 seconds left on the self-destruct timer, it will never appear on the in-game map.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#367 - 2015-09-11 13:54:33 UTC
d0cTeR9 wrote:
Limit hot drop capabilities from enemies in a sov space system.

Within one's own sov-spave relax the jump fatigue and range limitation.


There you go CCP, 2 cool new modules for alliances to grind to build and maintain for their new sov space, which people are still trying to figure out, why should we have it?....

I tossed out something like this early on in the thread. Basically, jump fatigue would get reduced by some amount based on the lowest sov index of your start point and destination. If you're jumping into, out of, or completely away from your sov, you get no reduction because you don't hold sov in at least one system. This means you would have a hard time using this reduction to help you move or attack more easily. But if you're jumping from one sov system to another, you get it, so you'd have an easier time defending.

Of course, with FozzieSov and the inherent entosis link nerf to all capital ships...I'm not sure this even matters anymore.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Djiana Lenar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#368 - 2015-09-13 02:24:11 UTC
Need a skill for Jump Fatigue cooldown
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#369 - 2015-09-13 02:48:19 UTC
Djiana Lenar wrote:
Need a skill for Jump Fatigue cooldown


No, we do not need yet another [mandatory] skill for all jump capable pilots.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Djiana Lenar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#370 - 2015-09-13 02:50:02 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Djiana Lenar wrote:
Need a skill for Jump Fatigue cooldown


No, we do not need yet another [mandatory] skill for all jump capable pilots.

yes we do sir
Mario Putzo
#371 - 2015-09-13 05:11:17 UTC
I still think the biggest issue wasn't jump fatigue itself, but the reduction to jump ranges that came on its back. That being said the proposed 5day cap is nice...but i still think the ranges on some things need to change (carriers for one as it facilitates nomad groups ability to function effectively)

Additionally I think that Black Ops Portals should not cause fatigue, but jumping a Blops ship with its own jump drive should.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#372 - 2015-09-14 19:37:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Djiana Lenar wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Djiana Lenar wrote:
Need a skill for Jump Fatigue cooldown


No, we do not need yet another [mandatory] skill for all jump capable pilots.

yes we do sir

Why skill instead of sensible thing of setting proper CD amount base (granted, we already have something coming this year, if we go by dev blogs)?
Cardcaptor Sakura
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#373 - 2015-09-14 23:24:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Cardcaptor Sakura
How about toss out jump fatigue outright? Nerfing jumping has more then that one solutions or minor changes to just that one solution.
Let's break down what the original problem was, to see why it needed a nerf, in the 1st place. Very simply, being that previously, you could jump as many times as you wanted, from the edge of a corner all the way to the other side of the map to an opposite corner. Unlimited jumping meant you could freely move large amounts of capitals to a system and overpower your opponent by having them all jump in at the same location.
Jump fatigue wanted to solve this problem, but I think there are more ways to achieve this goal that may be better at nerfing the unlimited jumping problem then jump fatigue currently.

1. So I think of fatigue, we should simplify the mechanic to streamline it. So how about limiting jump location options? Let me give an example. If a ship can jump a max of 10 LY, add 50% of that total to determine which systems you would be limited to if you wanted to jump. So this would be calculated with your system as the origin and then the locations you are able to jump to are within that 15 LY "circle" or "boundary".
2. During any given 24 hour period, you can jump either 1-3 or 3-5(unsure which is more suitable) times within your "set boundaries"..and the number of times you can jump reset to the max after each 24 hour period. Each 24 hour period would begin after your 1st jump for that day.
3. If you own sov, then maybe this nerf isn't applied while you are in your capital system. What I mean is, within your capital system ONLY, you can jump unlimited number of times, but ONLY IF your jump location is a different part of your capital system AND NOT into a different system, even the one next door. This would be a good thing because as it is your capital system, you should be able to "go all out" to defend your home system since it's the "only system you have"(if this is the 1st time getting sov) or the "only system you have left"(if you had a lot of sov but got all of t taken except for this one). I define this unlimited jumping as a "final stand" kind of thing..where it's "all or nothing" to defend your home from being taken.

I think we just need to think of other ways to nerf the unlimited jumping problem then to just say "jump fatigue is the one and only way to nerf it and we just need to tweak a bit here and there". The solutions don't have to be complicated as long as they can work to stop the consequences that go along with unlimited jumped that was in the "pre fatigue era".
I am not saying "destroy the blob"..my method I stated, still allows that..it will just take longer to get to where you want, so that the defenders can have time to prepare and not be outnumbered 10:1. Which is usually how it goes down if a big alliance likes chewing on new 100 man corps that just barely got a hold of their very 1st sov barely a week ago, for instance...we don't want that kind of abuse of their power to be a barrier of entry to new entities that want to try out null sec.
Greylord Kane
BOVRIL bOREers Mining CO-OP
Goonswarm Federation
#374 - 2015-09-15 14:39:26 UTC
I would like to throw out there as a miner and PI character who does not really do much PVP nor do I care to go that route that CCP allow certain types of mining and industrial ships to not accumulate JF. This would allow such ships as skiffs,procurers,orca,hulks to not have JF. They are really for mining and the whole poing of the JF was to purge more people to use the gate, but let's be honest with cloaky 24/7 camping going on in null sec what miner is going to jump gates with a pile of ice or ore.

Grey
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#375 - 2015-09-15 19:34:36 UTC
Greylord Kane wrote:
I would like to throw out there as a miner and PI character who does not really do much PVP nor do I care to go that route that CCP allow certain types of mining and industrial ships to not accumulate JF. This would allow such ships as skiffs,procurers,orca,hulks to not have JF. They are really for mining and the whole poing of the JF was to purge more people to use the gate, but let's be honest with cloaky 24/7 camping going on in null sec what miner is going to jump gates with a pile of ice or ore.

Grey


Put your Hulks inside the Rorqual. Jump. You have very minimal fatigue. Use an interceptor to move your Hulk pilot. Profit.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#376 - 2015-09-16 13:27:23 UTC
According to the latest DevBlog, max jump fatigue is being reduced from 30 days down to 5 days in the Parallax release due out on November 3rd.

Thank you CCP for listening to your player base. This change makes a lot of sense.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Persephone IX
Doomheim
#377 - 2015-09-19 09:57:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Persephone IX
Reduce jump fatigue for Regional jumps. Or alternatively you could allow Capitals to reach anywhere within the same Region but still accumulate jump fatigue per LY. You could bring back the old 13ly per carrier (or other max range), but only within the Region. Any jump above 5ly incurs an extra penalty.

5 ly is a bit restrictive, you should be able to reach anywhere within the same region (bonus to regional use). Changing Region and you will have the said 5ly restriction (or some other restrictive penalty, maybe double fatigue, due to regional jet lag :P). The point of fatigue was to restrict Capitals jumping around with impunity, and give them a more regional use.

CCP, Can I Haz My Stuff?

Crimsons Storm
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#378 - 2015-09-20 01:22:22 UTC
Whilst I am not impressed about the rigmarole in moving carriers around now days, I do think they were hit too hard with the jump changes.

The purpose in which I personally use them (to ease the burden of moving my fitted ships around) no longer really exists as its a real pain in the ass dealing with fatigue, in this spirit, I personally think the purpose of SMA's in capitals has been somewhat diluted.

I'd like to see carriers get at least 10ly jump range back EVEN if that costs me more fatigue.

In the alternative, we need a version of the bowhead with a decent jump range as I think the movement of fitted ships in a space as vast as the eve universe is an area that needs some attention. (besides the current iteration of the bowhead, which in these times , may as well be a giant piƱata / CODE magnet )

Tyby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#379 - 2015-09-20 07:11:38 UTC
Jump range nerfs killed my old corp, not fatigue; keep your fatigue, unnerf the jump range , problem solved;
but yea, i'm sure you guys will miss the mark again like you keep doing for some time now, and do the "right" thing again...

you want ppl to go "out", you want eve landscape to change on a dailly basis, but when was the last time you tried to move your stuff across 2-3 regions? i've been doing some movements in my time, when i changed corps for ex, i went from north to south and again north... now i know for sure that if i'll have to move again... i'll probably just quit. but like i said , don't mind me, do whatever you want, it's clr to me that the only feedback you really care about is wallet feedback
TrickyBlackSteel
Iron Mining and Industy Fleet
#380 - 2015-09-22 06:47:59 UTC
allow lower fatique when jumping trough your alliance bridge,like 15/25min,my space,i should have some bonuses from it...