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Should High sec go away?

Author
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2015-08-10 13:32:44 UTC
admiral root wrote:
75% of characters, not players. Included in that 75% are characters whose owners would prefer to have them in null, wormhole space or lowsec, but it's safer and more profitable to put them to work in highsec. If you had any interest in the facts you'd be asking how much the numbers would change if CCP fixed risk / reward so that it progressed from 1.0 all the way to -1.0 sec status.

A tellingly defensive answer, baselessly implying that I have no interest in the facts. I just presented the facts. The facts are that yes, CCP probably should fix risk/reward, but doing it by nerfing hi-sec in any way has one and exactly one outcome: disaster.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#42 - 2015-08-10 13:33:47 UTC
Q: Should the reason why you pay monies to CCP go away?
A: No, why do you ask?




Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#43 - 2015-08-10 13:44:05 UTC
Short answer

No

Long answer

Noooo...

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#44 - 2015-08-10 13:52:50 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
admiral root wrote:
75% of characters, not players. Included in that 75% are characters whose owners would prefer to have them in null, wormhole space or lowsec, but it's safer and more profitable to put them to work in highsec. If you had any interest in the facts you'd be asking how much the numbers would change if CCP fixed risk / reward so that it progressed from 1.0 all the way to -1.0 sec status.

A tellingly defensive answer, baselessly implying that I have no interest in the facts. I just presented the facts. The facts are that yes, CCP probably should fix risk/reward, but doing it by nerfing hi-sec in any way has one and exactly one outcome: disaster.

Why disaster? People in highsec aren't struggling to pay their bills. That's why they fit billions of ISK on ships that can do those same missions with a T2 fit... two ship classes below.

The statement "CCP probably should fix risk/reward but not by nerfing highsec" is very odd in itself and one I hear quite often. What is the difference between nerfing highsec and buffing everything besides highsec? The results are much the same.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin

Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#45 - 2015-08-10 14:43:02 UTC
Should high sec go away then any security rating should disappear including player's. Also skills. You start the game in a rookie ship in a random system and it's up entirely up to you. That's a real sand box and leaves no room for any exploit mechanics.

However, you'd need an npc controlled market system spread through out the universe to avoid known trading hub docking massacres. You wont be able to have a player driven economy without high sec space because it is the only thing that allows the market to function somehow free (or at least under the illusion of freedom) from politics.

p.s. btw remember that without Concord local also does not exist.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
#46 - 2015-08-10 16:18:08 UTC
I'm about done with these forums. Good lord.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#47 - 2015-08-10 16:20:36 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
The statement "CCP probably should fix risk/reward but not by nerfing highsec" is very odd in itself and one I hear quite often. What is the difference between nerfing highsec and buffing everything besides highsec? The results are much the same.

The difference is that buffing everything else will have some pretty significant adverse effects on the economy of… well, everything.

There's a reason why nerfs are pretty much universally better than buffs. Blink
Freya Sertan
Doomheim
#48 - 2015-08-10 16:21:15 UTC
This really went three pages? Really? Damn.

New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.

Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.

Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#49 - 2015-08-10 16:29:01 UTC
Yes.

No.

I don't know.

Ask me later.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#50 - 2015-08-10 16:31:43 UTC
Hengle Teron wrote:
Yes.

No.

I don't know.

Ask me later.
What he said. Maybe. Or maybe not.

vOv

Mr Epeen Cool
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#51 - 2015-08-10 16:35:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
The statement "CCP probably should fix risk/reward but not by nerfing highsec" is very odd in itself and one I hear quite often. What is the difference between nerfing highsec and buffing everything besides highsec? The results are much the same.

The difference is that buffing everything else will have some pretty significant adverse effects on the economy of… well, everything.

There's a reason why nerfs are pretty much universally better than buffs. Blink


That, and because personal income and by extension purchasing power are relative.

That means that nerfing the largest offenders against risk/reward, you achieve balance for the rest at the same time.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Dave Stark
#52 - 2015-08-10 17:04:45 UTC
should high sec go away? no.

everything would just become a logistical pain in the ass. if you think the tedium is bad now... oh boy you'd be in for a treat.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2015-08-10 17:06:52 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
CCP is not going to commit financial suicide to appease people who provide them less money.


If you had've said this about twelve months ago, I'd have agreed with you completely. Now, I'm not so sure.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#54 - 2015-08-10 17:21:42 UTC
I'd be interested in exploring a new mechanic around security status. The idea needs to be fleshed out a lot more than I will here, but I like the idea of a variable security status for systems.

If a system has a high amount of ganking/podding/etc, CONCORD starts to stage a higher presence there, ie the security status increases by 0.1 every so often. If a system has low activity, CONCORD vacates, causing the security status to decrease by 0.1 every so often.

I would consider every current low/high sec system to be included in this, so theoretically a system could actually switch from high sec to low sec and vice versa, depending on player activity.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#55 - 2015-08-10 17:51:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
I'd be interested in exploring a new mechanic around security status. The idea needs to be fleshed out a lot more than I will here, but I like the idea of a variable security status for systems.

If a system has a high amount of ganking/podding/etc, CONCORD starts to stage a higher presence there, ie the security status increases by 0.1 every so often. If a system has low activity, CONCORD vacates, causing the security status to decrease by 0.1 every so often.

I would consider every current low/high sec system to be included in this, so theoretically a system could actually switch from high sec to low sec and vice versa, depending on player activity.




If I could go back in time, after buying really cheap gold and investments, I would try to convince CCP that instead of completely different constellations with security status, it would be best to put all three types in each and every solar system.

Thus it could be assumed that the livable planets in the interior of the solar system is highsec because that's what matters to any controlling empire faction (markets, stations, etc.). Beyond that, into the less habitable planets' orbits, lowsec. Close enough to be seen doing naughty things, but too far for the space police to do anything.

Beyond the last orbit, interstellar perhaps, it's a free for all zone and nobody can hear you scream (nor care for that matter so no security loss for further naughty activity).

Gates, moons, bridges, sites - all across the spectrum of the three zones per system, and yes, even capitals could jump but only in outer space and the outer ring. Some systems have gates in the secure zone to other systems with gates in just about any zone, but other gates in the systems on lower security zones as well. (Would have been great for smuggling and moving restricted ships too).

That model alone would have prevented this entire "sec" conflict thing.

Chances are things were done the way they are done now for reasons I don't comprehend since I was not there when they came up with it. For example, highsec has a lot of processing overhead for activity because there are a lot of checks for security status, space police checking on activity, etc. Get in close to a freighter gank and note that there is usually a lag spike because the server is doing a lot of processing of standings loss, who is doing what to who, and all that other related functions, at the same time. If nullsec had the same mechanics, the big fleet battles would TiDi into negatives and the players involved would probably go back in time (or it would take a week to launch a missile).

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Lady Areola Fappington
#56 - 2015-08-10 18:17:46 UTC
I don't mind highsec existing. The original concept of Eve didn't involve a "highsec". New Edan was basically all 0.0, all the time. This became a problem when people who were not as "good" at Eve started getting ROFLStomped.

So yeah, there needs to be a little bit of a buffer to give us normal scrubs room to play alongside the leet MLG420noscope pros.


As for highsec being the most lucrative space in Eve...yeah, that needs a fixing. About the only "fair" way I could see that happening is to implement some sort of diminishing returns system on highsec living.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Josef Djugashvilis
#57 - 2015-08-10 18:19:43 UTC
Jeez, not this again...

This is not a signature.

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2015-08-10 18:34:27 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
CCP is not going to commit financial suicide to appease people who provide them less money.


If you had've said this about twelve months ago, I'd have agreed with you completely. Now, I'm not so sure.

Honest question; why the uncertainty now?
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#59 - 2015-08-10 18:48:55 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Jeez, not this again...


I dunno, I kind of find these threads interesting, especially when you see the people who don't want highsec removed and they turn out to be the usual suspects - the same people whinebears except to be leading the charge for deleting it. Big smile

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#60 - 2015-08-10 18:51:25 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Damien Power wrote:
I say should it go away because in a since with all the changes people who leave corps because they want to avoid wardecs have now found that being in a npc corp has only slightly increased your chance of not losing something expensive.

Ganking has proven that!

When you think your safe flying billions worth of assets in Hs you find yourself getting ganked and rage quit.

Now if you increase the risk by lowering Hs to a lowsec stat then people usually try to be more careful when moving around .

Not autopiloting in a expesive ship or freighter in Hs thinking your safe just to come back too see you been ganked.

False since of security to me.

The apparent safety in Highsec is what provides the target rich environment. CCP buffed CONCORD to a point where people are comfortable autoplioting their whole belongings around.

And we can still kill them. I don't see a reason to change Highsec at this point, as we are changing it successfully the sandboxy way with the tools provided.

If you want to kill stuff in Highsec, learn how to gank and don't whine in the forums to CCP to change the game in your favour like a little carebear.

No point typing it twice, Herzog said it beautifully.
Quote:
Herzog Wolfhammer
This is why highsec is filled up, and the "elite PVPer" of highsec is just as incapable of handling low and null (when not in a big fleet or a 50 to 1 death camp) and therefore in highsec for the same reason their prey is.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.