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What about Amarr/Gallente

Author
IIIIIAMGIIIII
Covert Ops Assassins
#101 - 2011-12-14 11:34:17 UTC
Stonecold Steve wrote:
Stonecold Steve <~~~~ TRAITOR to the Amarian race :)



+1 Lol made me laugh a little, but spaceships is serious business jow!!




I know its serious business thats why i try to convince the peeps we need just a lil bit changes in our ships and capacitor usage and maybe just maybe they fix our crystals if not making 3-4 kind dmg i hope they make EM+Thermal 50-50% dmg so i can kill something else than br san drones under 1 year firing at him :):)
Renge Ukyo
Doomheim
#102 - 2011-12-14 11:43:05 UTC
Dr Karsun wrote:
I personally find my Gallente carrier far better than the Minmatar carrier... Also I would never trade my ishtar for any caldari or minmatar hac.

And I love getting up close and personal with my 5km optimal on blasters.

Gallente are fine with the rail&blaster buff. We do only two kinds of damage but no one care prepare for the possible situation that he'll only encounter amarr or that they'll only encounter Gallente, so they can't really tank only EM&therm or therm&kin. People omni-tank in pvp making our vessels in par with others.

For pve my hybrids suck a bit, true... But for pvp they are equal opponents.




I have had the exact opposite experience. The Gallente still suck, I know, cause it's what i fly. I"m cross training to Minmatar because there is no reason to continue to put myself in harms way. The Gallente are an armor tanked race by and large. The issue with the close range brawler is that you can't be -slow- and live. Since we can be kited AC to blaster, and never close the gap to even get a Minmatar ship in our falloff range because we are too slow, it's a losing proposition every time, and because you burn all your cap trying to get in range. Even OH'ed you're gonna be at half cap or below when you do get in range, making you all the more susceptible to capacitor warfare modules. The new buff is nice, but has not yet brought the Gallente into focus as a viable and competitive PVP option. The fitting options on hybrids still forces you to chose between damage and tank, and that goes a long way in taking your range away from you because if don't fit ions or electrons you will not have a tank. Ions give you the same tank, but less cap as electrons, which means you have to forgo the range necessary to engage with. If you go with neutrons you are going to realize immediately that you won't have a tank and your cap is gone ridiculously fast. You will also notice you explode effortlessly while you try to catch something with your scram/web. The reality is that a 10k engagement range is not a viable option for the Gallente. The Tracking bonus and damage bonus don't matter if you cant HIT someone because they are exactly 1 meter too far away. You could be able to a million dps with a blaster at 5k, but it won't matter because you can't get anyone in that range because A no one is dumb enough, and B you're too slow even if someone is dumb enough.

As much as I would love to believe that someday the Gallente will actually be PVPable, but for now, we're just cannon fodder until we have -PERFECT- skills. And by the time you have perfect skills you'll have already realized you should be cross training in to Minmatar.
Schnoo
The Schnoo
#103 - 2011-12-14 11:55:51 UTC
Can't be bothered to read all posts but there's one thing that should be made clear:
Amarr laser ships are generally only good in medium/large fleets. For solo work, any other race has much better ships, and the only Amarr ships that are good for solo are training wise polar opposite of what Amarr is: Arbi/Curse = drones and even shields,
Veng/Sac = missiles, even HAM>Laser Legion holds true.
Sure, you can try to solo PVP in laser ships, but it's just hard. As you're Amarr, you can't control range, EM/Thermal tanks, which are persistent with Minmatar, the most popular PVP race, means you are also outdpsed and outtanked, as well as having cap and tracking problems.
But that would all be OK if retribution and coercer had two mid slots.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#104 - 2011-12-14 12:04:18 UTC
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:
Danny John-Peter i see these ships u mentioned all the time.Diferents says i know what they can do u don`t.Utalking about Legion with missiles -good joke :) You also talk about Armageddon navy - do you know how hard is to fit him proper ? How many of the ships you wrote can fly and actually use them in pvp or pve ...do you even know how u have to fit them or how much time is needed to fit Armageddon navy proper? For mission dude if u fly solo like me in l4 only Apocalypse Navy have enough PG CPU and enough cap to complete the mission without warping out cause of dry capacitor. Dont comment something u don`t know how it really work :):):)



Firstly, not mocking, but I am genuinely having trouble reading that, if your not native English speaking good on you, you write better English than I probably do of your native otherwise, well yeah learn to write, please.

Secondly I specifically said both the laser and HAM legions are used in PVE a lot. Both my mates use laser legions in Sanctums.

And as that other clever man I cant be bothered to quote says, maybe its your fittings/skills not the ships.

@Fix My Lasers

No it doesnt but considering your short range weapon system of a Medium type can fight in optimal out to 40k with poor skills and T1 crystals.

Thats not bad, you can also insta change ammo, select range in a way I as a Minmatar simply cannot.

Just see it this way, we can pick our damage type if we wait 10 seconds to reload. Yay for us. You can instantly change to fit the range you are fighting at Yay for you.
IIIIIAMGIIIII
Covert Ops Assassins
#105 - 2011-12-14 12:15:12 UTC  |  Edited by: IIIIIAMGIIIII
Danny John-Peter wrote:
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:
Danny John-Peter i see these ships u mentioned all the time.Diferents says i know what they can do u don`t.Utalking about Legion with missiles -good joke :) You also talk about Armageddon navy - do you know how hard is to fit him proper ? How many of the ships you wrote can fly and actually use them in pvp or pve ...do you even know how u have to fit them or how much time is needed to fit Armageddon navy proper? For mission dude if u fly solo like me in l4 only Apocalypse Navy have enough PG CPU and enough cap to complete the mission without warping out cause of dry capacitor. Dont comment something u don`t know how it really work :):):)



Firstly, not mocking, but I am genuinely having trouble reading that, if your not native English speaking good on you, you write better English than I probably do of your native otherwise, well yeah learn to write, please.

Secondly I specifically said both the laser and HAM legions are used in PVE a lot. Both my mates use laser legions in Sanctums.

And as that other clever man I cant be bothered to quote says, maybe its your fittings/skills not the ships.

@Fix My Lasers

No it doesnt but considering your short range weapon system of a Medium type can fight in optimal out to 40k with poor skills and T1 crystals.

Thats not bad, you can also insta change ammo, select range in a way I as a Minmatar simply cannot.

Just see it this way, we can pick our damage type if we wait 10 seconds to reload. Yay for us. You can instantly change to fit the range you are fighting at Yay for you.




Yes my english is very poor,thats why is so difficult to explain my self.I hope its good enough to get my point,because i`m really trying here.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#106 - 2011-12-14 12:36:32 UTC
Well I really dont see what your point is at the moment, you dont like the damage types dealt by lasers, fair enough, your excellent range flexibility really does make up for that lets be honest.

In regards to the ships and fitting them, I personally fly Minmatar mostly, however I fly Baddons for Pew Pew (with lasers, yes).

I rat in a Harb (for the better optimal and the joy of buying ammo once and the better drone bay). I also rat in a Geddon which runs the Cap for 9 Minutes with everything running (Including a repper). Stable with AB off. Paladins, Navy Geddons and Navy Apocs as well as many other Amarr ships are used to rat here in provi, the majority of ratters are, to be honest, using lasers.
Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2011-12-14 15:04:30 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Thats not bad, you can also insta change ammo, select range in a way I as a Minmatar simply cannot.

Just see it this way, we can pick our damage type if we wait 10 seconds to reload. Yay for us. You can instantly change to fit the range you are fighting at Yay for you.


Damage type - When I fly minnie ships I change my ammo when I see the enemy.
Before I start flying to my target I start targeting it and according to the race and type I change ammo. If it's Amarr HAC I get non-EXP damage, if it's a minnie HAC I get non EM damage and so on.
Usually in 95% cases I have my ammo changed before my ship is on the range I need or at the same time. Which means I didn't waste those 10 seconds you talk about.
If you can't do that right that's not a race problem.

Range - Changing crystals for the optimal range works just like falloff. When you use longer range crystals your dps drops dramaticly, the longer your range the less DPS your crystals do. Just the same as falloff - when you're on the edge of your falloff you loose like 50% of your DPS (via misses that falloff makes) and when't it's closer to optimal you do almost 100% of damage.
So it is actually not a good thing when you have to change ammo when you're out of range. It is not a Yay as you say.
Be happy you don't have to change ammo when your range changes.
As for Scorch being so "good", there is AC ammo called Barrage that works axacly like Scorch.

Please be constructive.
Lasers aren't any better then any other weapon system. Actually they are worse.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html

Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#108 - 2011-12-14 15:17:59 UTC
Fix My Lasers wrote:
Some things which are massively circumstantial


Damage Type - Because you have 10 seconds before every engagement to change ammo type, thats a bizarre comment to make.
And also Minmatar T2 ammo as Im sure you know deals only two damage types, and I find myself using barrage a lot, to get any kind of DPS out of them at the ranges I tend to end up fighting at in either fleet fights or kiting.

Range - I lose my first premised advantage of damage selection at range anyways, do to being practically limited to barrage.
Even with barrage, I cannot do any real damage at 44k which happens to be the optimal range of the T1 radio crystals on medium Amarr turrets

\Constructive


Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#109 - 2011-12-14 15:19:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ellendras Silver
the only valid point that remains is that gallente and amarr can only do 2 types of damages. but they have a lot of good points too

strong points amarr

1. awesome T2 ships best from every race. and good T1 ships also
2. no reload time
3. switching range and damage type with crystals (instantly)
4. by far the best armor tankers in the game
5. the amarr ships look realy cool ok its just eye candy but still

i think all races are good its how you fly them that changes things

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2011-12-14 15:32:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Fix My Lasers
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Damage Type - Because you have 10 seconds before every engagement to change ammo type, thats a bizarre comment to make.

\Constructive


Constructive? Yes, very!
Man, don't disgrace yourself.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html

Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2011-12-14 15:36:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Fix My Lasers wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Damage Type - Because you have 10 seconds before every engagement to change ammo type, thats a bizarre comment to make.

\Constructive


Constructive? Yes, very!
Man, don't disgrace yourself.


well fix lasers..

But give me ponies with 8xDD prefitted with no requirment and 12mil ehp at least. Seems good to me.

I apologies i am a bit drunk.
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#112 - 2011-12-14 15:37:04 UTC
Fix My Lasers wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Damage Type - Because you have 10 seconds before every engagement to change ammo type, thats a bizarre comment to make.

\Constructive


Constructive? Yes, very!
Man, don't disgrace yourself.


if they do that amarr is going to be way too powerfull they are srtrong enough as it is

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2011-12-14 15:40:26 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Fix My Lasers wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Damage Type - Because you have 10 seconds before every engagement to change ammo type, thats a bizarre comment to make.

\Constructive


Constructive? Yes, very!
Man, don't disgrace yourself.


well fix lasers..

But give me ponies with 8xDD prefitted with no requirment and 12mil ehp at least. Seems good to me.

I apologies i am a bit drunk.


Man! You said it yourself - Fix lasers!

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html

Dunbar Hulan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#114 - 2011-12-14 15:41:05 UTC
A 1.2B fitted Tengu will still die in a Bubble to T1 frigs and some EWAR. It's all relative to what you are doing or trying to do.

 ** Manchester United - Paul Scholes= Genius**

Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#115 - 2011-12-14 15:46:46 UTC
Fix My Lasers wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Damage Type - Because you have 10 seconds before every engagement to change ammo type, thats a bizarre comment to make.

\Constructive


Constructive? Yes, very!
Man, don't disgrace yourself.


Since you have now quoted the one sarcastic (However still valid) part of my comments.

Please now actually repsond and rebut my argument rather than simply making silly comments.

\Pot calling kettle black
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#116 - 2011-12-14 15:47:38 UTC
Fix My Lasers wrote:
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Fix My Lasers wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Damage Type - Because you have 10 seconds before every engagement to change ammo type, thats a bizarre comment to make.

\Constructive


Constructive? Yes, very!
Man, don't disgrace yourself.


well fix lasers..

But give me ponies with 8xDD prefitted with no requirment and 12mil ehp at least. Seems good to me.

I apologies i am a bit drunk.


Man! You said it yourself - Fix lasers!


Yes fix lasers. Give them better tracking .. here we go..
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#117 - 2011-12-14 16:06:41 UTC
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:

I know its serious business thats why i try to convince the peeps we need just a lil bit changes in our ships and capacitor usage and maybe just maybe they fix our crystals if not making 3-4 kind dmg i hope they make EM+Thermal 50-50% dmg so i can kill something else than br san drones under 1 year firing at him :):)


Multifreq is even EM+Therm. Fit a prop mod to get in range.

As for the rat types, STOP SHOOTING RATS WITH INAPPROPRIATE GUNS

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2011-12-14 16:22:46 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:

I know its serious business thats why i try to convince the peeps we need just a lil bit changes in our ships and capacitor usage and maybe just maybe they fix our crystals if not making 3-4 kind dmg i hope they make EM+Thermal 50-50% dmg so i can kill something else than br san drones under 1 year firing at him :):)


Multifreq is even EM+Therm. Fit a prop mod to get in range.

As for the rat types, STOP SHOOTING RATS WITH INAPPROPRIATE GUNS


Multifreq is 70% EM and 30% TH. It is the highest TH/EM ratio.

"INAPPROPRIATE GUNS" by this you mean I should mount ACs or Hybrids? Because those 2 systems are great for shooting any rats, unlike lasers.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html

Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#119 - 2011-12-14 16:26:40 UTC
Fix My Lasers wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:

I know its serious business thats why i try to convince the peeps we need just a lil bit changes in our ships and capacitor usage and maybe just maybe they fix our crystals if not making 3-4 kind dmg i hope they make EM+Thermal 50-50% dmg so i can kill something else than br san drones under 1 year firing at him :):)


Multifreq is even EM+Therm. Fit a prop mod to get in range.

As for the rat types, STOP SHOOTING RATS WITH INAPPROPRIATE GUNS


Multifreq is 70% EM and 30% TH. It is the highest TH/EM ratio.

"INAPPROPRIATE GUNS" by this you mean I should mount ACs or Hybrids? Because those 2 systems are great for shooting any rats, unlike lasers.



A:Because Hybrids can pick damage types and have massive range flexibility

B:You ignored my request for an actaul argument regarding projectiles so I can only assume you either have no argument or can't be bothered.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2011-12-14 16:29:06 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Fix My Lasers wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:

I know its serious business thats why i try to convince the peeps we need just a lil bit changes in our ships and capacitor usage and maybe just maybe they fix our crystals if not making 3-4 kind dmg i hope they make EM+Thermal 50-50% dmg so i can kill something else than br san drones under 1 year firing at him :):)


Multifreq is even EM+Therm. Fit a prop mod to get in range.

As for the rat types, STOP SHOOTING RATS WITH INAPPROPRIATE GUNS


Multifreq is 70% EM and 30% TH. It is the highest TH/EM ratio.

"INAPPROPRIATE GUNS" by this you mean I should mount ACs or Hybrids? Because those 2 systems are great for shooting any rats, unlike lasers.



A:Because Hybrids can pick damage types and have massive range flexibility

B:You ignored my request for an actaul argument regarding projectiles so I can only assume you either have no argument or can't be bothered.


A : thermal/kinetic combo works pretty well against any NPC .. sure they are not best at some cases but still they could be at second place of choice..

B : Dont know..