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What about Amarr/Gallente

Author
IIIIIAMGIIIII
Covert Ops Assassins
#1 - 2011-12-08 22:13:55 UTC
Hello,i wanted to ask you a few questions for a long time and now the time is good as any i quess.

1.Why all Amarr ships have 1 bonus less (capacitor use bonus is pure bonus eater ) in the place of this capacitor use bonus every other factions have on their ships Tracking speed,Firing range,Rate of fire or Dmg bonus.I will accept this capacitor use ship bonus if only our weapons were better than other faction,but actually here comes and the other big Amarr problem ... yes its that single EM dmg we make ( Em + Thermal charges are useless cause they don`t have any range at all and its p[ointless to use them ).

2.Why only Caldari and Minmatar have 4 kind dmg but the other 2 factions ( Amarr and Gallente ) have only 2 (Amarr have only 1 Actually ) ?

3.If you think to close Amarr and Gallente in the near future ( considering this disadvantages ) you really should put some Warnings when new player start to make a character, or Warning like ` Don`t make Amarr and Gallente its useless`.


PS: I have talk with many players about this Amarr and Gallente problems ( they are problems for us ) and most of them tells me same thing - Why the hell i make Amarr / Why the hell i make Gallente.
ACE McFACE
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-12-08 22:26:03 UTC
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:
Hello,i wanted to ask you a few questions for a long time and now the time is good as any i quess.

1.Why all Amarr ships have 1 bonus less (capacitor use bonus is pure bonus eater ) in the place of this capacitor use bonus every other factions have on their ships Tracking speed,Firing range,Rate of fire or Dmg bonus.I will accept this capacitor use ship bonus if only our weapons were better than other faction,but actually here comes and the other big Amarr problem ... yes its that single EM dmg we make ( Em + Thermal charges are useless cause they don`t have any range at all and its p[ointless to use them ).

2.Why only Caldari and Minmatar have 4 kind dmg but the other 2 factions ( Amarr and Gallente ) have only 2 (Amarr have only 1 Actually ) ?

3.If you think to close Amarr and Gallente in the near future ( considering this disadvantages ) you really should put some Warnings when new player start to make a character, or Warning like ` Don`t make Amarr and Gallente its useless`.


PS: I have talk with many players about this Amarr and Gallente problems ( they are problems for us ) and most of them tells me same thing - Why the hell i make Amarr / Why the hell i make Gallente.


1. Amarr lasers use a lot of cap, and i think you'll find every single crystal does EM and Thermal, and not enough range? Heard of Scorch? It makes pulse lasers very effective at longer ranges considering its the short ranged weapon of Amarr.

2. Yeah this is pretty much right, but lasers doing explosive damage wouldnt make sense.

3. Amarr is great and Gallente is very good but has more of a niche roll, its just not Winmatar or the kings of PvE Caldari

4. You should have a 4th question

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.

IIIIIAMGIIIII
Covert Ops Assassins
#3 - 2011-12-08 22:34:11 UTC
I`m sry for the misunderstanding. These questions were for the ppl who develop eve not for the players. I`m prety sure they can fix every disadvantage we ( Amarr and Gallente ) have.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2011-12-08 23:16:41 UTC
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:
I`m sry for the misunderstanding. These questions were for the ppl who develop eve not for the players. I`m prety sure they can fix every disadvantage we ( Amarr and Gallente ) have.


You won't get a response from the DEVs. They prefer to watch players slug it out in threads over whether or not different races/ships/weapons/mods are under or overpowered.

1a. Amarr ships have capacitor bonuses because Lasers eat up A LOT of capacitor. A good example is the Abaddon which, even when using Standard crystals, will cap itself out just running the guns alone (assuming "standard PvP" fit).
As for the limitation with damage types... Lasers make up for this by; being able to change their ammo (and thus their range) in under a second, having fairly high damage modifiers, and a "long" optimal range for a "short range" weapon.

2a. Not really true. Many Caldari ships only get bonuses for kinetic missiles which does limit them in choosing missiles of a different damage type. Minmitar ships being able to choose damage types has been a point of some contention though.

3a. Amarr ships are hardly "useless." In fact, many 0.0 alliances have total hard-ons for Amarr ships because; they don't "need ammo," they can swap crystals and thus change ranges in an instant, they deal a fairly consistent rate of damage at medium ranges, they are tanky, etc. etc.
Gallente ships have their problems, mostly with regards to how they have the shortest range weapons in the game with some of the heaviest ships. However, they are also not "useless." They have their charm and place, having ships that can employ shield tanks, armor tanks, buffer tanks, active tanks, gunboats, droneboats, high versatility and/or utility abilites.

TL;DR... Amarr ships excel at fleet warfare and are mediocre with most other things outside of that combat style. Gallente are "wild cards" and can be fit and re-fit for a variety of combat situations... though they still won't be as good as the "specialist" ship they are emulating.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#5 - 2011-12-08 23:24:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
In terms of active tanking battle cruisers they need rigs + two low slots (dual rep) to get the same boost that shield tanks get from just two mid slots. Shield rep also lands at the start of a cycle while armour only lands at the end.

Additionally, for shield fleets you can have ewar and tackler ships but for armour ships, your damage mods and armour mods are always competing.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#6 - 2011-12-08 23:24:43 UTC
Yay forums. X

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-12-08 23:38:34 UTC
train minmatar and t2 autocannons .. + all gunnery at V
buy machariel fit it with 800mm .. both BS at V

leave dissapointed .. as at 60km with T2 LR ammo dps output is somewhere at 60-100 .. at optimal range you wont track ****..
But thats mostly because i am not that awesome.

Amar ships .. sure they got "useless" bonus for cap use. However their base capacitors are ussually HUGE in comparison to let say minmatar.

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#8 - 2011-12-08 23:38:41 UTC
There are just alot more variables to balanceing a ship then dps and tank or so, but there is drake. If no secondary attributes get to you I would recomend training drake or tengu maybe abbadon then.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Sakkar Arenith
Kenmei Corporation
#9 - 2011-12-08 23:49:23 UTC
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:
Hello,i wanted to ask you a few questions for a long time and now the time is good as any i quess.

1.Why all Amarr ships have 1 bonus less (capacitor use bonus is pure bonus eater ) in the place of this capacitor use bonus every other factions have on their ships Tracking speed,Firing range,Rate of fire or Dmg bonus.I will accept this capacitor use ship bonus if only our weapons were better than other faction,but actually here comes and the other big Amarr problem ... yes its that single EM dmg we make ( Em + Thermal charges are useless cause they don`t have any range at all and its p[ointless to use them ).

2.Why only Caldari and Minmatar have 4 kind dmg but the other 2 factions ( Amarr and Gallente ) have only 2 (Amarr have only 1 Actually ) ?

3.If you think to close Amarr and Gallente in the near future ( considering this disadvantages ) you really should put some Warnings when new player start to make a character, or Warning like ` Don`t make Amarr and Gallente its useless`.


PS: I have talk with many players about this Amarr and Gallente problems ( they are problems for us ) and most of them tells me same thing - Why the hell i make Amarr / Why the hell i make Gallente.



1. Back when eve was new and just being conceptualized, i.e. alpha/beta, the races were supposed to be very different from each other. One difference was supposed to be that Amarr ships would have been very expensive compared to the other races, and their technological superiority would have been accompanied by the BEST weapons system there is, lasers!

Appropriately no other race was supposed to be able to use THE BEST weapon system.

Thus only amarr ships were meant to be graced with lasers. but ofc as we know lasers nowadays are just about "meh", with scorch being the only thing keeping them afloat.. But ccp never bothered to either buff lasers or unnerf amarr ship bonuses.


2. Tech two ammos when they were created were supposed to offer em/exp variations to hybrids/lasers, this change was scrapped at the very last moment.

And to those mocking about that lasers doing exp dmg is fantasy... idiots, look up what a real pulse laser does... it doesnt radio your tinfoil, it makes your tissue combust explosively...

Cloora
APEX Unlimited
APEX Conglomerate
#10 - 2011-12-09 00:31:59 UTC
I think Amarr ships are great but doing what they did with the Apoc to some of the other ships with cap use bonus would be good.

You see the Apoc used to have a cap use bonus and a capacitor amount bonus and it was a crappy ship. Then they put the cap amount bonus into it's base stats and added a range bonus. Now it's a much better ship being able to project 700DPS to 80km with awesome tracking when fit right.

They should increase the base cap for the Maller and Prophecy by 30% and add a range bonus instead. Other then that change Amarr ship kick booty.

http://www.altaholics.blogspot.com

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#11 - 2011-12-09 00:35:17 UTC
Its like the kinetic laser argument as well. It is particle based there is force behind it.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-12-09 00:53:33 UTC
*Sighs* Minmatar can use all damage types equally for the simple fact that we're better than you. How many times do we need to say it?

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Handsome Hussein
#13 - 2011-12-09 00:58:30 UTC
Sakkar Arenith wrote:
And to those mocking about that lasers doing exp dmg is fantasy... idiots, look up what a real pulse laser does... it doesnt radio your tinfoil, it makes your tissue combust explosively...

So, explain to me again how a ship's hull is 75% water and thus prone to explosively boiling when superheated?

Leaves only the fresh scent of pine.

Arcadia1701
#14 - 2011-12-09 01:25:02 UTC
Well if you hit metal with a laser as powerfull as eves. it would explode, as it would be turned to gas / vaporised that quickly, thus doing EXP damage.
EvE is one of the few sci fis were the lasers aren't partical stream based.. which counts out them doing Kinetic unless they change it.

IIIIIAMGIIIII
Covert Ops Assassins
#15 - 2011-12-09 02:11:18 UTC
Sakkar Arenith i understand now ....CCP just don`t care fixing Amarr problems.i quess 40 000 peeps will play only with Minmatar/Caldari sweet.

Thank you all.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#16 - 2011-12-09 02:14:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
The amount of electron induction in the Terrajoule ranges into the material is so massively high that it trancends from a solid to a plasma state, the amount of energy required to skip converting into liquid gas then a plasma are cricumvented in a pico-second.

Materials that suffer this sudden change in life style sorta explode, just like teenagers.

Now granted All races have thier 'problems' but problems are meant to be conquerable obstacles. Which is the current case for alot of ammarian ships.

In the gallente case however thier 'problems' are not obsticales that are meant to be conquered they are 'inherint' flaws or basically a brick wall with little to no ways of getting around.

When Killboards declare that in the top 20 ships to be making kills last year and not a single one of them is gallente and pods have more kills than them, you know there is a problem somewhere in the machine.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#17 - 2011-12-11 14:43:26 UTC
I think all races should have all damage types available even if it is limited to just one ammo type that is short or long range.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-12-11 14:50:11 UTC
If every race could do the same things then race and bloodline would be even more cosmetic/meaningless.

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!

Schnoo
The Schnoo
#19 - 2011-12-11 14:58:04 UTC
well, amarr ships kinda suck below large guns; except for legions and incursions
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#20 - 2011-12-11 15:28:29 UTC
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:
Hello,i wanted to ask you a few questions for a long time and now the time is good as any i quess.

1.Why all Amarr ships have 1 bonus less (capacitor use bonus is pure bonus eater ) in the place of this capacitor use bonus every other factions have on their ships Tracking speed,Firing range,Rate of fire or Dmg bonus.I will accept this capacitor use ship bonus if only our weapons were better than other faction,but actually here comes and the other big Amarr problem ... yes its that single EM dmg we make ( Em + Thermal charges are useless cause they don`t have any range at all and its p[ointless to use them ).

2.Why only Caldari and Minmatar have 4 kind dmg but the other 2 factions ( Amarr and Gallente ) have only 2 (Amarr have only 1 Actually ) ?

3.If you think to close Amarr and Gallente in the near future ( considering this disadvantages ) you really should put some Warnings when new player start to make a character, or Warning like ` Don`t make Amarr and Gallente its useless`.


PS: I have talk with many players about this Amarr and Gallente problems ( they are problems for us ) and most of them tells me same thing - Why the hell i make Amarr / Why the hell i make Gallente.


1. The ship stats are mediocre, but they make the guns useable, and the gun stats are awesome. Scorch is magic, Tachs are magic on the right ship, and instead of fighting in dps eating falloff, Lasers can usually fight in optimal all the time, for more magic the ship stats don't show. And Abaddons have tanks as brickey as their looks.

2. For PvP everyone omnitanks more or less, so who cares. For PvE, just use the right ship for the job, and again nobody cares.

3. Amarr is absolutely useless. That's the reason no alliance flies Hellcats, nobody uses Guardians for armor logi, Zealots in Ahac fleets, Curses for solo roams, Abaddons for cheap neuting fun, Paladins for PvE, Archons for suicide triage duty. And surely Aeon and Nyx pilots were tricked into flying those terrible useless ships. And think of the poor Avatar and Erebus pilots, locked into their worse ships. Dominixes are clearly useless in every aspect, Thanatos's can't rat at all, Ishkurs are terrible frigate roamers, nobody likes kiting with an Arazu in fleet, and the Ishtar is a useless PvE ship.

tl;dr you decided that Eve was tl;dr..... Can I have your stuff?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

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