EVE General Discussion

It doesn't take years to get a good tengu going and the t3s do need to be nerfed rather hard for many reasons.

Actually, all the people arguing whether or not the tengu needs some new nerf are forgetting one thing:

OP's entirempremise of the OPness of the tengu is based on a PvE fit, and ships in EvE are not balanced around PvE.

A t1 pvp frigate fit for mediocre kinetic tank and throwing EM damage will OMGWTFPWN a ratting tengu.

Edit: Oh, OP, I have an Ishtar fit and a Gila fit that will both, as you put it, facetank a Maze.

The Op is like the 100,000th person to cleverly work out that T3s have a bunch of EHP. Well done mate, that's kind of their thing.

See, T3s can't outdo the t2 cruisers in their speciality; The tengu can't fling missiles further than a Cerb or ECM harder than a Falcon; the Loki can't go as fast as a Vagabond or web as far as a Huginn; a Proteus can't do as much damage as a Deimos or damp as well as an Arazu; a Legoin cannot project lasers as well as a Zealot or rep as well as a Guardian. And so so.

What they can do is stay on the field under circumstances that T2 cruisers cannot endure, and fit for some specialist stuff like bubble nullification.

That's OK. They're meant to be able to do stuff T2 cruisers can't do as long as they can't do the T2 Cruiser's specific job better than it can.

Eeeh. Ehehehe. HEHHEgigglespurt.

Yeah, the Tengu is certainly the T3 ship that is famous for its EHP.

They invalidate most t2 cruisers, most BC, command ships, and rival battleships in tank. That's some 57 ships the invalidate or match in power.

Really? Then why does anyone fly anything else? Why aren't 100% of doctrines based around t3s then?

All of them.

There is zero reason to take out an eagle over a railgu for example, both do the exact same job only the tengu does it with a battleship level tank while cap stable, slippery pete can match the eagle while being insanely hard to probe down and is immune to bubbles. We also cant rule out recons as the T3s are more effective than the recons and who wants to fly a pilgrim when a legion can do the same thing but with bubble immunity? The diemost gets outclassed massively in tank and the fact that the proteus can do the same job while being cap stable (while running a mwd), longer point range and deals 100 more damage if using t2 mods.



They mosly are, the only reason ishtars are such a big thing is simply down to the fact that they were and are silly overpowered with sentries. There is no reason at all to use a zealot fleet over a legion fleet.

Baltec saying everything I would have. High five.

You know how PLEX discussions happen like clockwork, and it's a dead horse topic? Balance is the same way. You're attempting to apply logic and reason to a situation where the only math concerned is a direct comparison of usage statistics. Basically, a thing will be buffed or nerfed until it is used with the same frequency as the rest of its class.

It's not an uncommon dilemma for developers to know something is more powerful than players recognize with use. The issue I take with balance by usage is the simplicity of that method is such that a monkey could do it. What I'd like to see is ship attributes that are designed around fun.

In the meantime, there is a ship popularity chart that supports the attributes of ships. Like a crutch, usage stats alleviate the need for a developer to defend a counterintuitive balance pass to other CCPs who don't understand the game mechanics.

That sounds like a blatant insult, but CCP Rise made a comment about the tracking formula during AT 10(?) that is still fresh in my mind. I've studied the tracking formula for years and I still don't understand it.

I would love to find the clip for you, but effort. I don't recall who his cohost was, it might be Sir Squeebles or Dolan.

If you can corner a dev, ask them questions about the tracking or missile damage formulas, or about the evolution of stealth bombers from frigates to destroyers (by stats). You will likely find the answer you didn't know you were looking for: Oh damn. They don't understand the game and ship balance is done by a bunch of stat-worshipping monkeys.

A Tier 3 is better than a Tier 2 in some cases. Shocking.

The more ISK you spend on blinging them, the better they get. Shocking.

Specialized fittings can be stupidly OP for the purpose they are specialized for, especially in PVE. Shocking.

EVE is not balanced around PVE and never will be. Shocking!

A T3 can have a tank that rivals a battleship - no **** sherlock. They also cost more for the hull and subs than most BS cost for the whole fit, and you lose 4.5 days worth of skill points each and every time you lose one.

Still not seeing the problem.