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Solo shield doctrine, please?
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Robert Sawyer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-08-07 13:26:44 UTC
I've got pretty good missile and shield skills, so I fly Caldari. I usually roam lowsec and camp in complexes, waiting for people, but one day, a Firetail jumped in. It was 3km away, so I scrammed and webbed it and started going after it, but somehow it burned through my shields in a matter of seconds and pretty much kited me to death.

Same thing, different ship. I zero'd in on a Tristan, pointed him, and yet his drones cut through my shields like a hot knife through butter. Now, I can't really tell if I'm just using my Hookbill / Kestrel in a wrong way or if I'm just complete **** at PvP. I have good resistances to all damage types, but somehow I just keep losing almost every fight. Help needed.

"And when, at last, the moment is yours, that agony will become your greatest triumph."
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#2 - 2015-08-07 13:45:44 UTC
I don't like the compromises of the hookbill that makes it either situational quirky or just weaker than the other 3+p faction frigs.


For fights in a Kestrel solo, I tend to fit a booster and buffer rather than a web, as for a rocket ship the web is not as necessary.

However, for this fit, a kite Tristan will get outside your range and you will have to kill drones and take a draw. RFF should be within your grasp. Most of the other faction frigs are too deadly although you can take a slicer (as long as you don't try to take on two - like I did).

'Tis great how the Kestrel can be fitted for so many different jobs. Keeps the enemy guessing

Kestrel - type 1 variant A
High

  • Rocket Launcher II w/faction rockets (not rage)
  • Rocket Launcher II w/faction rockets (not rage)
  • Rocket Launcher II w/faction rockets (not rage)


Med

  • AB II
  • Scram (J5b)
  • MSE (F-S9)
  • Medium Ancillary Shield Booster w/ Navy 50'


Low
  • BCS II
  • F85 DCU

    • Rigs
  • Small Anti-EM Shield
  • Small Anti-Therm Shield (these can be tech 1 or 2 as per your choice)
  • Small Ancillary Current Router

    • fit a 3% CPU implant to make this work

    You should now be able to compete in the two situations you listed.

    NB: For more DPS you might like to try an implant or two more for rocket damage and launcher rate of fire?

    "Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"
    Robert Sawyer
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #3 - 2015-08-07 15:13:26 UTC
    Thanks, mate, the Master Sergeant title is well-deserved :)

    "And when, at last, the moment is yours, that agony will become your greatest triumph."
    Starbuck05
    Abiding Ormolus
    #4 - 2015-08-07 17:12:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Starbuck05
    Imo , here's a better ideea .

    Sacrifice a days training for some armor skills and go armor buffer fit . You can do this on both hook and kessy

    Fact is , you DO need the webs in a fight , rockets wise maybe not for dps application but it dictates control in any engagement plus thr ability to dissangage if you feel your loosing or to keep others from dissangaging when your about to win.


    Basicly alot of ships flown in FW nowadays are speed reliant so no weebs equals slim chance of tackling and winning.


    A 400 plated hook with ab scram 2 webs and a tracking disruptor will anihilate most brawling frigs and might even screw up some kiters with tracking disrupt script.

    Or , alternetavly if you wanna keep most of your speed dual armor rep it with an ancillery armor repper and a cap booster.


    With these setups you'll wanna fight at near scram range , 8-8.5k orbit or keep distance while using TD to cripple they're optimal range. In most engagements if you do the following they will not apply any dps to you ( short range guns ) .


    Good luck

    Just because i am blond does not make me stoopid !
    Doctor Knuckles
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #5 - 2015-08-08 09:42:28 UTC
    Starbuck05 wrote:
    Imo , here's a better ideea .

    Sacrifice a days training for some armor skills and go armor buffer fit . You can do this on both hook and kessy

    Fact is , you DO need the webs in a fight , rockets wise maybe not for dps application but it dictates control in any engagement plus thr ability to dissangage if you feel your loosing or to keep others from dissangaging when your about to win.


    Basicly alot of ships flown in FW nowadays are speed reliant so no weebs equals slim chance of tackling and winning.


    A 400 plated hook with ab scram 2 webs and a tracking disruptor will anihilate most brawling frigs and might even screw up some kiters with tracking disrupt script.

    Or , alternetavly if you wanna keep most of your speed dual armor rep it with an ancillery armor repper and a cap booster.


    With these setups you'll wanna fight at near scram range , 8-8.5k orbit or keep distance while using TD to cripple they're optimal range. In most engagements if you do the following they will not apply any dps to you ( short range guns ) .


    Good luck



    confirming 400 plate hookbill is a complete pain in the ass to fight
    Skelee VI
    Appetite 4 Destruction
    #6 - 2015-08-10 21:56:09 UTC
    Dusl medium asb hawk
    Moglarr
    Operation Meatshield
    #7 - 2015-08-10 22:07:48 UTC
    Robert Sawyer wrote:
    I've got pretty good missile and shield skills, so I fly Caldari. I usually roam lowsec and camp in complexes, waiting for people, but one day, a Firetail jumped in. It was 3km away, so I scrammed and webbed it and started going after it, but somehow it burned through my shields in a matter of seconds and pretty much kited me to death.

    Same thing, different ship. I zero'd in on a Tristan, pointed him, and yet his drones cut through my shields like a hot knife through butter. Now, I can't really tell if I'm just using my Hookbill / Kestrel in a wrong way or if I'm just complete **** at PvP. I have good resistances to all damage types, but somehow I just keep losing almost every fight. Help needed.


    Sounds like they used EM damage on you champ. I didn't scout your Killboard, but I am willing to bet they carved up your shields by shooting your resist hole.

    Operation Meatshield! GETUP and fight!
    Yang Aurilen
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #8 - 2015-08-10 23:42:03 UTC
    Robert Sawyer wrote:
    I've got pretty good missile and shield skills, so I fly Caldari. I usually roam lowsec and camp in complexes, waiting for people, but one day, a Firetail jumped in. It was 3km away, so I scrammed and webbed it and started going after it, but somehow it burned through my shields in a matter of seconds and pretty much kited me to death.

    Same thing, different ship. I zero'd in on a Tristan, pointed him, and yet his drones cut through my shields like a hot knife through butter. Now, I can't really tell if I'm just using my Hookbill / Kestrel in a wrong way or if I'm just complete **** at PvP. I have good resistances to all damage types, but somehow I just keep losing almost every fight. Help needed.


    KB scouting shows me you don't fit DCU's on your merlin, only bring void, no perfect fitting skills(merlins don't need an SACR to fit T2 neutrons, T2 MSE and T2 AB).

    As for the hookbill it looks like you fought a dual web arty firetail and you were in his optimal more or less and couldn't get under his guns.

    Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
    Legatus1982
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #9 - 2015-08-11 13:45:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Legatus1982
    400 plate hookbill should **** all over that fire tail, if not then more investigation is needed into the specific fit he flies.

    So far I've never lost a 1v1 against any gun ship with that hookbill fit. I would be wary of faction ships or guys like lucifer who are known bling fit with links but normal frigs should die with most of your shields untouched.

    Tristan on the other hand is capable of hurting a hookbill pretty bad but I still haven't lost to a Tristan either, usually end up in about half armor when he dies. There is probably a Tristan variation that can kill a hookbill, idk.

    Comet I usually just kite and kill his drones and he warps off, OR he charges right at me and dies while he tries to close the gap. Slicer I would probably avoid, but if he warps on top of you in a plex where you are waiting on the button, you should win by orbiting at 500 and overheating your tracking script and everything else. Make sure you initially overheat your tackle so he doesn't burn out right away and spam your lock.

    Then there is stuff that will **** all over a hookbill, faction frigs etc obviously avoid unless you know the specific ship can die to your setup.
    Rat Scout
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #10 - 2015-08-16 08:44:23 UTC
    Have fun

    [Caldari Navy Hookbill, Hoooo]

    Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
    Damage Control II

    Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender
    Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender
    Stasis Webifier II
    1MN Afterburner II
    Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I

    Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
    Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
    Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket

    Small Ancillary Current Router I
    Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
    Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II


    Needs 3% cpu implant with good fitting skills
    Rat Scout
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #11 - 2015-08-16 08:58:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Rat Scout
    Also if you prefer range and kite

    [Caldari Navy Hookbill, kite x kite]

    Overdrive Injector System II
    Damage Control II

    Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender
    Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script
    Warp Disruptor II
    5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
    Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

    Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Rocket
    Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Rocket
    Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Rocket

    Small Ancillary Current Router II
    Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
    Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II


    3% cpu implant again
    Reaver Glitterstim
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #12 - 2015-08-20 09:28:34 UTC
    I went with a small fleet up against a guy in a Worm. Our shots failed to get him below 90% shields. We weren't a strong fleet but he took out several other frigates pretty fast.

    FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

    Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
    Demerius Xenocratus
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #13 - 2015-08-20 09:39:09 UTC
    The Worm and the Garmur are the two most hilariously overpowered frigates in the game. A linked, dual MSE worm can get close to 25k EHP and with augmented hobgoblins do 250-300 DPS depending on number of DDA's.

    The Garmur can kite cap stable at 50k and leave at 10k m/s should something actually be almost fast enough to catch it.

    Pick one. Enjoy. Mix in implants, links and drugs for solo god-mode.
    Switch Savage
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #14 - 2015-08-20 10:00:38 UTC
    Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
    The Worm and the Garmur are the two most hilariously overpowered frigates in the game. A linked, dual MSE worm can get close to 25k EHP and with augmented hobgoblins do 250-300 DPS depending on number of DDA's.

    The Garmur can kite cap stable at 50k and leave at 10k m/s should something actually be almost fast enough to catch it.

    Pick one. Enjoy. Mix in implants, links and drugs for solo god-mode.



    You can just about scratch 20k on a worm with x2 faction shield extenders, full T2 core defense field extenders and shield links. If you do this however you have zero range control and an em resist of 30%. 25k+ is possible with x2 MSE, Invul but then you either have no prop mod or no point.

    It is strong no doubt but it is not without its flaws, hell my Imicus has 13k ehp albeit with 110 dps. Hard to argue with your linked Garmur comments though :p.

    If you want a real laugh and are happy to train small blasters try this Merlin out. Sit inside novice plexes at zero and keep at range 1000 on your target when they come in with Void loaded. Works a little better on an Incursus but i would recommend dual web no scram fits to a lot of newer players as you can get some fantastic kills and they are brain dead to use.

    [Merlin, Blap]
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Damage Control II

    Medium Shield Extender II
    1MN Afterburner II
    Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
    Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

    Light Electron Blaster II, Void S
    Light Electron Blaster II, Void S
    Light Electron Blaster II, Void S

    Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
    Aurure
    some random local shitlords
    #15 - 2015-08-21 13:07:56 UTC
    Switch Savage wrote:
    Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
    The Worm and the Garmur are the two most hilariously overpowered frigates in the game. A linked, dual MSE worm can get close to 25k EHP and with augmented hobgoblins do 250-300 DPS depending on number of DDA's.

    The Garmur can kite cap stable at 50k and leave at 10k m/s should something actually be almost fast enough to catch it.

    Pick one. Enjoy. Mix in implants, links and drugs for solo god-mode.



    You can just about scratch 20k on a worm with x2 faction shield extenders, full T2 core defense field extenders and shield links. If you do this however you have zero range control and an em resist of 30%. 25k+ is possible with x2 MSE, Invul but then you either have no prop mod or no point.

    It is strong no doubt but it is not without its flaws, hell my Imicus has 13k ehp albeit with 110 dps. Hard to argue with your linked Garmur comments though :p.

    If you want a real laugh and are happy to train small blasters try this Merlin out. Sit inside novice plexes at zero and keep at range 1000 on your target when they come in with Void loaded. Works a little better on an Incursus but i would recommend dual web no scram fits to a lot of newer players as you can get some fantastic kills and they are brain dead to use.

    [Merlin, Blap]
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Damage Control II

    Medium Shield Extender II
    1MN Afterburner II
    Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
    Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

    Light Electron Blaster II, Void S
    Light Electron Blaster II, Void S
    Light Electron Blaster II, Void S

    Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I



    Solid fit and advice here, many players don't realize they're not being pointed. In the few seconds a hot brawl lasts, one if the rarest thoughts is “Is he maybe using a weird fit? Am i even pointed? I mean, i'm on point blank and webbed, but am i pointed?“
    Demerius Xenocratus
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #16 - 2015-08-22 16:01:41 UTC
    Switch Savage wrote:
    Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
    The Worm and the Garmur are the two most hilariously overpowered frigates in the game. A linked, dual MSE worm can get close to 25k EHP and with augmented hobgoblins do 250-300 DPS depending on number of DDA's.

    The Garmur can kite cap stable at 50k and leave at 10k m/s should something actually be almost fast enough to catch it.

    Pick one. Enjoy. Mix in implants, links and drugs for solo god-mode.



    You can just about scratch 20k on a worm with x2 faction shield extenders, full T2 core defense field extenders and shield links. If you do this however you have zero range control and an em resist of 30%. 25k+ is possible with x2 MSE, Invul but then you either have no prop mod or no point.

    It is strong no doubt but it is not without its flaws, hell my Imicus has 13k ehp albeit with 110 dps. Hard to argue with your linked Garmur comments though :p.

    If you want a real laugh and are happy to train small blasters try this Merlin out. Sit inside novice plexes at zero and keep at range 1000 on your target when they come in with Void loaded. Works a little better on an Incursus but i would recommend dual web no scram fits to a lot of newer players as you can get some fantastic kills and they are brain dead to use.

    [Merlin, Blap]
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Damage Control II

    Medium Shield Extender II
    1MN Afterburner II
    Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
    Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

    Light Electron Blaster II, Void S
    Light Electron Blaster II, Void S
    Light Electron Blaster II, Void S

    Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


    I'm pretty sure my corpmate plugged a dual faction MSE worm with max shield links into EFT and came out well over 20k, I will double check though. The only counter to that really, is to blob it. I lost a vigilant killing one; he took 11.5k raw damage and I lacked the EHP to finish off his partner in a Jackdaw. The Garmur of course cannot be blobbed at 10k m/s, but the worm puts out more than double the DPS with drones alone...so pick your poison. CCP should be ashamed of themselves for both.

    Worm gets base EM resist of 20%, with full shield links (25%?) you should get over 30, then a DCU gives yet more. I'm going to build one with that silly fit later so I'll know for sure.
    Switch Savage
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #17 - 2015-08-24 14:12:25 UTC
    Its about 35% em resist with full shield links if you do one of those dual MSE fits and full T2 core extenders.

    I don't think those setups are that OP to be honest. They have zero range control and with x2 MSE you gimp the fitting so badly the dps/tank drops significantly when you are forced to fit Aux power/Current routers to even fit missiles and a prop mod on. Even as a bait fit its a bit naff since it cant actually keep hold of most things.