These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Plex hits 1b ISK in Jita

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#681 - 2015-09-23 21:45:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Aaron wrote:


Game time is a simple product which is needed to be part of the game. I know you'll disagree with this; Skins and Aurum appeal to peoples vanity, character services appeal to people who want an advantage, within character services you can dual train and transfer characters, these services give people an edge within the game if you have lots of real life money to put into Eve then this is for you.

The fact you can buy fanfest and event tickets with plex is realistic and it is a very good product, again, we are using a person who has credit/debit cards to help out someone who does not for an isk reward.
And you'd be wrong, your summation is correct. It's your assumptions I take umbrage to.

Quote:
CCP have mixed too many product types into one, and based purely on "I can't afford/be bothered to plex game time" forum replies we cant see this is having an effect, no matter how small.
So you propose the exact opposite by needlessly complicating things with no less than 5 different kinds of PLEX with four of them, which cover things that are services beyond gametime, having the same price point?

You can't disregard the potential loss of revenue for CCP that your scheme may incur, especially if it failed to increase the sale of (insert type of) PLEX enough to cover the difference.


Having separate product types that each relate to different things is complicated? Listen, If I want a PLEX for isk then I should be able to buy one at the optimal value of whatever game time is worth, I seriously wouldn't be looking to pay for the vanity and advantage value because that value is of no use to me, only the game time plex would be of use to me.

You see it backwards, having one product type for everything is complicated.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#682 - 2015-09-23 21:49:52 UTC
Call options aren't very complicated.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#683 - 2015-09-23 21:56:48 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Zihao wrote:
Yeah, how dare people spend their in-game and cash money on things they want! They should be forced to subsidize me instead!

This.

Apparently only PLEX users have a right to value and they shouldn't have to do too much to achieve it.

PLEX sellers, they're just evil people and don't deserve value for their money.

I'm certainly glad CCP doesn't share that view.


I have made this point repeatedly. A subscription is $14.95 (you can get it down somewhere in the $12 range if you buy a year in advance). If you are getting paid $14.95/hour then unless you really love grinding for ISK or have a way to make ISK while largely AFK you are doing it wrong if you are spending more than a hour grinding ISK.

You know that argument how your minerals are not free if you mine them? Yeah, same concept.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Salvos Rhoska
#684 - 2015-09-23 21:57:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Teckos Pech wrote:
Snip

Explain why PLEX price has risen, (over and beyond several sequential factors/interventions that should themselves have reduced price) despite reduction in account activity, which rationally should reduce demand, against, as you posited, the same reduction in account activity that has also resulted in less RLM PLEX introduction, as commensurately reducing supply.

As to explanations of my position, search this thread with my name, and you will find I have addressed them at great length.
All of your questions to me are already answered there (and I say this without cause to accusation of intellectual dishonesty. Ive already answered them previously. You are late to the discussion, and apparently have not read them. Nott repeating myself does not constitute dishonesty).

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#685 - 2015-09-23 22:00:35 UTC
Alliance tournament ISK niagara falls.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#686 - 2015-09-23 22:01:46 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Alliance tournament ISK niagara falls.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_salad
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#687 - 2015-09-23 22:02:57 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Call options aren't very complicated.


/me rubs eyes in disbelief, Tippia are you agreeing with me?


Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#688 - 2015-09-23 22:05:49 UTC
Aaron wrote:
/me rubs eyes in disbelief, Tippia are you agreeing with me?

No. You're stating the opposite.

You are suggesting that “having one product type for everything is complicated”. It's not. It's just a call option, and call options are not complicated. What you're suggesting — what effectively amounts to half a dozen different currencies, each dedicated to a single service — is pointlessly complicated and doesn't address any kind of articulated problem.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#689 - 2015-09-23 22:08:45 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Snip

Explain why PLEX price has risen, (over and beyond several sequential factors/interventions that should themselves have reduced price) despite reduction in account activity, which rationally should reduce demand, against, as you posited, the same reduction in account activity that has also resulted in less RLM PLEX introduction, commensurately reducing supply.



RL purchases are down.
IG purchase are up because of things like skins. I had a post that detailed all of that...back on page 28 IIRC.

And we did see a price drop awhile ago. When CCP banned multiplexing/broadcasting with ISBoxer, the price of PLEX did go down as people stopped using them so much and IG dropped. The price stabilized around 800 millionish for some time.

Look at the time series data around November 2014. PLEX Prices hit about 935 million, then dropped and were pretty flat for about 4 months moving around 800 million. And oh look, on November 25 2014 CCP Falcon made his post about ISBoxer and similar programs.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#690 - 2015-09-23 22:09:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Aaron wrote:
/me rubs eyes in disbelief, Tippia are you agreeing with me?

No. You're stating the opposite.

You are suggesting that “having one product type for everything is complicated”. It's not. It's just a call option, and call options are not complicated. What you're suggesting — what effectively amounts to half a dozen different currencies, each dedicated to a single service — is pointlessly complicated and doesn't address any kind of articulated problem.


Game time = Needed to play the game
Skins = Vanity for people who want to show off and look cool

Please explain why one has to pay vanity cost when that isn't what they're interested in?

Is this how you would operate a RL business?

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#691 - 2015-09-23 22:12:37 UTC
Aaron wrote:
Game time = Needed to play the game
Skins = Vanity for people who want to show off and look cool

Please explain why one has to pay vanity cost when that isn't what they're interested in?
You don't.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#692 - 2015-09-23 22:12:44 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Snip

Explain why PLEX price has risen, (over and beyond several sequential factors/interventions that should themselves have reduced price) despite reduction in account activity, which rationally should reduce demand, against, as you posited, the same reduction in account activity that has also resulted in less RLM PLEX introduction, commensurately reducing supply.



RL purchases are down.
IG purchase are up because of things like skins. I had a post that detailed all of that...back on page 28 IIRC.

And we did see a price drop awhile ago. When CCP banned multiplexing/broadcasting with ISBoxer, the price of PLEX did go down as people stopped using them so much and IG dropped. The price stabilized around 800 millionish for some time.

Look at the time series data around November 2014. PLEX Prices hit about 935 million, then dropped and were pretty flat for about 4 months moving around 800 million. And oh look, on November 25 2014 CCP Falcon made his post about ISBoxer and similar programs.


You are right with your comparisons Teckos, the numbers can't lie they simply are what they are. A few people would still try to disagree with this statement.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#693 - 2015-09-23 22:18:18 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Game time = Needed to play the game
Skins = Vanity for people who want to show off and look cool

Please explain why one has to pay vanity cost when that isn't what they're interested in?
You don't.


Right, so skins have no isk value alone then? If this is the case why do we have to pay RL money for them?

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#694 - 2015-09-23 22:20:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Aaron wrote:
Right, so skins have no isk value alone then? If this is the case why do we have to pay RL money for them?

You answered your own question quite nicely there.

And again, what you're asking for already exists in the game, but in a non-stupid not-nearly-as-stupid form
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#695 - 2015-09-23 22:25:28 UTC
Aaron wrote:
[quote=Tippia]

Game time = Needed to play the game
Skins = Vanity for people who want to show off and look cool

Please explain why one has to pay vanity cost when that isn't what they're interested in?

Is this how you would operate a RL business?


If this was the case, costs would still be the same. Why? Cause of a simple thing. People put a quantity of isk onto an item. If no items were at that players minimum, they would not sell one. So lets say that 1b is that magic number of supply and demand. If plex is the highest, nobody will sell vanity ones until vanity reached that one bil, etc. If vanity was higher, people would stop selling plex.

Splitting them up will not change the market at all because the supplies will be split. Fewer plexes being bought, but once the prices level out for isk per dollar, it will end up just being the same place.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#696 - 2015-09-23 22:30:51 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Right, so skins have no isk value alone then? If this is the case why do we have to pay RL money for them?

You answered your own question quite nicely there.

And again, what you're asking for already exists in the game, but in a non-stupid not-nearly-as-stupid form


Ship skins info

Hmm, so CCP listened to the players regarding the desire for paint customization's, then they did a ship painting pilot program which was a success and then proceeded to make Skins a product that they sell. In the link I provided CCP themselves say skins have a value because people desire it.

It seems difficult to converse with you Tippia, you're not prepared to accept anything.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#697 - 2015-09-23 22:37:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Aaron wrote:
Hmm, so CCP listened to the players regarding the desire for paint customization's, then they did a ship painting pilot program which was a success and then proceeded to make Skins a product that they sell. In the link I provided CCP themselves say skins have a value because people desire it.
…and?

You still don't have to pay any kind of vanity cost if you're not interested in it.

Quote:
It seems difficult to converse with you Tippia, you're not prepared to accept anything.
I accept evidence, logic, solid argumentation, proof — stuff you are fundamentally incapable of providing.

All you have is assumption, speculation, wishful thinking, and a an almost complete lack of coherence and cogency, as well as of even a fairly basic understanding of the game.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#698 - 2015-09-23 22:39:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Quote:
skins have a value because people desire it

I am afraid CCP doesnt know where to find a point where the "value" meets "desire" so they can shake hands for a lot of players.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#699 - 2015-09-23 22:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron
Tippia wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Hmm, so CCP listened to the players regarding the desire for paint customization's, then they did a ship painting pilot program which was a success and then proceeded to make Skins a product that they sell. In the link I provided CCP themselves say skins have a value because people desire it.
…and?

You still don't have to pay any kind of vanity cost if you're not interested in it.

Quote:
It seems difficult to converse with you Tippia, you're not prepared to accept anything.
I accept evidence, logic, solid argumentation, proof — stuff you are fundamentally incapable to provide.

All you have is assumption, speculation, wishful thinking, and a an almost complete lack of coherence and cogency.


I provided a link to CCP's website that features what actions were taken in order to bring skins into the game. My info came staight from the horses mouth. Unlike you I pay attention to what's happening and have a solid understanding of what I am talking about.

CCP and some of the player base put work into bringing skins into existence, Skins are being used, I know they are not free, so guess what they have a value. Grow up and accept this.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#700 - 2015-09-23 22:50:31 UTC
plex price increased around 25% right after the alliance tournament. It went up 10% during the alliance tournament.