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Plex hits 1b ISK in Jita

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Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#581 - 2015-09-21 10:06:37 UTC
almost 30 pages about one single item, which is confirm that it is overestimated by masses.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Aoife Fraoch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#582 - 2015-09-21 10:43:26 UTC
Personally I really can not see PLEX dropping below 900 million without something dramatic happening. I suspect we are looking at a peak for right now, but given that we have seen trade volumes close to what was seen around April and May for a number of weeks, and the prices are still rising, I don't think it will fall far.

I would not be surprised if what we are actually seeing is a market correction. There seems to be enough activity to sustain a higher price than we saw a year ago.

I am sure someone has mentioned it, but don't forget that with mult-character training, and new things being added to the NEX store the space rich actually have a reason to consume more PLEX than before and maintain demand.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#583 - 2015-09-21 12:08:51 UTC
Let us actually agree that he can't actually HAVE babies... but that we should fight for his RIGHT to HAVE them?!

But he can't actually have babies, where is the fetus going to gestate? You gonna keep it in a box?!

^Thread, circa p.24-30^

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
#584 - 2015-09-21 12:35:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Anne Dieu-le-veut
I'd be all for lowering the price of PLEX to equal a sub, or maybe keep it a dollar a month more because PLEX have more versatility than a simple sub, BUT...there is zero evidence that would lower the price of them in game. That *might* increase the number of people buying PLEX from CCP, but there are so many space rich players that aren't even blinking at paying 1.2B ISK, there is no reason for sellers to sell them for less. Many of those extra PLEX sales might go towards dual/tri training by buyers, and never even see the market. I've only bought a couple PLEX from CCP over the years, but their IRL cost had ZERO bearing on my decision.
Tam Arai
Mi Pen Rai
#585 - 2015-09-21 12:46:28 UTC
confirming i will accept all plex donations gratefully Big smile
u3pog
Ministerstvo na otbranata
Ore No More
#586 - 2015-09-21 12:48:54 UTC
30 Pages here and more than 30 in market discussion. No matter how much we discuss PLEX, we won't affect it, unless we buy it with real money or on the markets. I don't see a point why should we delve so deep into terms and economics, who's privileged or not (after reading the last few pages, I already feel I am), or what the price should be...

If you have few trillion in your wallet, feel free to affect the price, but beware, massive manipulations may lead to a ban. Smile

Other than that, relax, grab some pop corn, and enjoy the show.

P.S. I really like the energy and effort we put in here. It means we are very passionate about the game. Just don't leave it, if you can't afford PLEX, find other means, change playstile, beg, take loan, anything, this game is worth it! Pirate
Zihao
Doomheim
#587 - 2015-09-21 15:25:40 UTC
And the grinding class still haven't been organized to take back the means of production. What the hell Aaron?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#588 - 2015-09-21 15:34:56 UTC
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
I'd be all for lowering the price of PLEX to equal a sub, or maybe keep it a dollar a month more because PLEX have more versatility than a simple sub, BUT...there is zero evidence that would lower the price of them in game. That *might* increase the number of people buying PLEX from CCP, but there are so many space rich players that aren't even blinking at paying 1.2B ISK, there is no reason for sellers to sell them for less. Many of those extra PLEX sales might go towards dual/tri training by buyers, and never even see the market. I've only bought a couple PLEX from CCP over the years, but their IRL cost had ZERO bearing on my decision.


Other than economic theory...you know that annoying model called supply and demand. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#589 - 2015-09-21 15:36:27 UTC
Zihao wrote:
And the grinding class still haven't been organized to take back the means of production. What the hell Aaron?


So...the reserve army of the unemployed have found employment by grinding in Eve? Lol

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#590 - 2015-09-21 15:47:29 UTC
Aoife Fraoch wrote:
Personally I really can not see PLEX dropping below 900 million without something dramatic happening. I suspect we are looking at a peak for right now, but given that we have seen trade volumes close to what was seen around April and May for a number of weeks, and the prices are still rising, I don't think it will fall far.

I would not be surprised if what we are actually seeing is a market correction. There seems to be enough activity to sustain a higher price than we saw a year ago.

I am sure someone has mentioned it, but don't forget that with mult-character training, and new things being added to the NEX store the space rich actually have a reason to consume more PLEX than before and maintain demand.


Exactly my point a few pages back. If items in the NEX store have increased demand then you'll see an increase in the price. No need to invoke any other dubious explanation.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
#591 - 2015-09-21 15:51:09 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
I'd be all for lowering the price of PLEX to equal a sub, or maybe keep it a dollar a month more because PLEX have more versatility than a simple sub, BUT...there is zero evidence that would lower the price of them in game. That *might* increase the number of people buying PLEX from CCP, but there are so many space rich players that aren't even blinking at paying 1.2B ISK, there is no reason for sellers to sell them for less. Many of those extra PLEX sales might go towards dual/tri training by buyers, and never even see the market. I've only bought a couple PLEX from CCP over the years, but their IRL cost had ZERO bearing on my decision.


Other than economic theory...you know that annoying model called supply and demand. Roll


AFAIK there is an unlimited supply of PLEX from CCP, so supply is not an issue.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#592 - 2015-09-21 15:55:59 UTC
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
I'd be all for lowering the price of PLEX to equal a sub, or maybe keep it a dollar a month more because PLEX have more versatility than a simple sub, BUT...there is zero evidence that would lower the price of them in game. That *might* increase the number of people buying PLEX from CCP, but there are so many space rich players that aren't even blinking at paying 1.2B ISK, there is no reason for sellers to sell them for less. Many of those extra PLEX sales might go towards dual/tri training by buyers, and never even see the market. I've only bought a couple PLEX from CCP over the years, but their IRL cost had ZERO bearing on my decision.


Other than economic theory...you know that annoying model called supply and demand. Roll


AFAIK there is an unlimited supply of PLEX from CCP, so supply is not an issue.


The supply for the market is limited by the RL investment of players.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#593 - 2015-09-21 16:01:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
I'd be all for lowering the price of PLEX to equal a sub, or maybe keep it a dollar a month more because PLEX have more versatility than a simple sub, BUT...there is zero evidence that would lower the price of them in game. That *might* increase the number of people buying PLEX from CCP, but there are so many space rich players that aren't even blinking at paying 1.2B ISK, there is no reason for sellers to sell them for less. Many of those extra PLEX sales might go towards dual/tri training by buyers, and never even see the market. I've only bought a couple PLEX from CCP over the years, but their IRL cost had ZERO bearing on my decision.


Other than economic theory...you know that annoying model called supply and demand. Roll


AFAIK there is an unlimited supply of PLEX from CCP, so supply is not an issue.


True, which is why in my first post back a couple of pages I had this picture.

Notice how the supply curve is horizontal (the red line)?

And notice that given either of the two demand curves we have a finite quantity of PLEX.

Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#594 - 2015-09-21 16:08:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Teckos Pech wrote:
True, which is why in my first post back a couple of pages I had this picture.

Notice how the supply curve is horizontal (the red line)?
That figure assumes that supply is constant for some reason — it doesn't explain why this would be the case. So there is nothing there to note other than an assumption.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#595 - 2015-09-21 16:11:22 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
True, which is why in my first post back a couple of pages I had this picture.

Notice how the supply curve is horizontal (the red line)?
That figure assumes that supply is constant for some reason…


It assumes that the price elasticity is infinite...i.e. supply is potentially infinite, but when you add in demand you end up with a finite quantity on the market.

CCP bears very little or no cost in creating a PLEX, so they can continually add them as players want them at whatever price CCP decides on.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#596 - 2015-09-21 16:21:52 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
True, which is why in my first post back a couple of pages I had this picture.

Notice how the supply curve is horizontal (the red line)?
That figure assumes that supply is constant for some reason…


It assumes that the price elasticity is infinite...i.e. supply is potentially infinite, but when you add in demand you end up with a finite quantity on the market.

CCP bears very little or no cost in creating a PLEX, so they can continually add them as players want them at whatever price CCP decides on.


CCP's cost to produce a PLEX is irrelevant to the market. The real limiting factor is how many $$$ is cost "the market" to get a new PLEX added in the pool. If PLEX were to crash to 100 mill, most people would probably not buy 12 PLEX for every one they buy now to cover their ISK need.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#597 - 2015-09-21 16:47:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Teckos Pech wrote:
It assumes that the price elasticity is infinite...i.e. supply is potentially infinite, but when you add in demand you end up with a finite quantity on the market.
I think the fundamental problem is that you're mixing and matching different supplies and demands, and overloading two distinct parameters in one line.

By your graph, demand should go down as supply increase, and that's generally fine and good. But which demand? Since you're talking about RL cost, I can only assume that you also mean RL demand and quantity, but since the supply and price is constant, demand and quantity should be the the exact same — the quantity is the demand. So either you're confusing dependent and independent variable (the demand should really be the x-axis), or the demand shouldn't be represented at all (demand isn't a function of quantity here). Or you're mixing markets, which also means the demand shouldn't be represented. I'm tempted to say that demand should be constant in that graph, but it really shouldn't — it's just not contingent on anything else shown in the graph.

I think what I'm trying to say is that: what are you actually trying to show here? That as supply remains constant (and infinite) and demand goes down (somehow) as quantity goes up, the two… do what? That price and supply are independent from quantity (which begs he question — it's the premise of the red line)? It looks like you're either massively overcomplicating things, or directly confusing what's what by trying to have in-game and out-of-game markets appear in the same graph.

If you're going to do a supply-demand analysis on a single good that isn't even a market — viz. real-life PLEX sales — you end up with something like this.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#598 - 2015-09-21 19:23:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
It assumes that the price elasticity is infinite...i.e. supply is potentially infinite, but when you add in demand you end up with a finite quantity on the market.
I think the fundamental problem is that you're mixing and matching different supplies and demands, and overloading two distinct parameters in one line.

By your graph, demand should go down as supply increase, and that's generally fine and good. But which demand? Since you're talking about RL cost, I can only assume that you also mean RL demand and quantity, but since the supply and price is constant, demand and quantity should be the the exact same — the quantity is the demand. So either you're confusing dependent and independent variable (the demand should really be the x-axis), or the demand shouldn't be represented at all (demand isn't a function of quantity here). Or you're mixing markets, which also means the demand shouldn't be represented. I'm tempted to say that demand should be constant in that graph, but it really shouldn't — it's just not contingent on anything else shown in the graph.

I think what I'm trying to say is that: what are you actually trying to show here? That as supply remains constant (and infinite) and demand goes down (somehow) as quantity goes up, the two… do what? That price and supply are independent from quantity (which begs he question — it's the premise of the red line)? It looks like you're either massively overcomplicating things, or directly confusing what's what by trying to have in-game and out-of-game markets appear in the same graph.

If you're going to do a supply-demand analysis on a single good that isn't even a market — viz. real-life PLEX sales — you end up with something like this.


It is you who complicates things Tippia. You are completely oblivious as to why demand has gone down and it seems that you can't even speculate why.

Tippia, Why do you think supply has gone down? please give me a direct answer to this question without telling me it is irrelevant or any other evasive response.

Are you even prepared to acknowledge that plex is what links the real world to the Eve virtual world?


Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#599 - 2015-09-21 19:26:41 UTC
Aaron wrote:
It is you who complicates things Tippia.
Prove it.

Quote:
You are completely oblivious as to why demand has gone down and it seems that you can't even speculate why.
Incorrect. I'm simply pointing out that his graph is an incoherent mess.

Quote:
Tippia, Why do you think supply has gone down?
Which supply?

Quote:
Are you even prepared to acknowledge that plex is what links the real world to the Eve virtual world?
Not in the way you believe, no.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#600 - 2015-09-21 19:30:31 UTC
Aaron wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
It assumes that the price elasticity is infinite...i.e. supply is potentially infinite, but when you add in demand you end up with a finite quantity on the market.
I think the fundamental problem is that you're mixing and matching different supplies and demands, and overloading two distinct parameters in one line.

By your graph, demand should go down as supply increase, and that's generally fine and good. But which demand? Since you're talking about RL cost, I can only assume that you also mean RL demand and quantity, but since the supply and price is constant, demand and quantity should be the the exact same — the quantity is the demand. So either you're confusing dependent and independent variable (the demand should really be the x-axis), or the demand shouldn't be represented at all (demand isn't a function of quantity here). Or you're mixing markets, which also means the demand shouldn't be represented. I'm tempted to say that demand should be constant in that graph, but it really shouldn't — it's just not contingent on anything else shown in the graph.

I think what I'm trying to say is that: what are you actually trying to show here? That as supply remains constant (and infinite) and demand goes down (somehow) as quantity goes up, the two… do what? That price and supply are independent from quantity (which begs he question — it's the premise of the red line)? It looks like you're either massively overcomplicating things, or directly confusing what's what by trying to have in-game and out-of-game markets appear in the same graph.

If you're going to do a supply-demand analysis on a single good that isn't even a market — viz. real-life PLEX sales — you end up with something like this.


It is you who complicates things Tippia. You are completely oblivious as to why demand has gone down and it seems that you can't even speculate why.

Tippia, Why do you think supply has gone down? please give me a direct answer to this question without telling me it is irrelevant or any other evasive response.

Are you even prepared to acknowledge that plex is what links the real world to the Eve virtual world?




Sorry Tippia, I'm a little tired. I was meant to type;

It is you who complicates things Tippia. You are completely oblivious as to why demand has gone down and it seems that you can't even speculate why.

Tippia, Why do you think demand has gone down? please give me a direct answer to this question without telling me it is irrelevant or any other evasive response.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie