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Bitter Vet Retention

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#121 - 2015-08-09 00:42:54 UTC
Arthur Direction wrote:
There is rarely the 35K you state is the norm playing this game these past few months. Maybe one day a week and for what? like 30 minutes?

I don't state that it is the norm, and we are talking about PCUs since that's what the original claim was all about.

Quote:
Not saying McAltty isn't a troll, but at least he is a troll where the numbers are playing to his advantage.
Since the numbers don't agree with what he's saying, much less with the hallucinatory position he tried to defend, there's literally nothing that is playing to his advantage. He's just trying to come back from his previous misreading and ignorance of server data by wilfully misreading what I'm actually saying and trying to create some rather silly strawman argument out of it.

Quote:
Tippia you appear to be a salmon swimming up stream, what is it you are trying to prove here? You want people to believe that during Euro high times there is 35K players online? Because I never see it, and the numbers say otherwise too.
This, essentially.
Arthur Direction
I Accidentally Basilisks
#122 - 2015-08-09 00:47:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Arthur Direction wrote:
There is rarely the 35K you state is the norm playing this game these past few months. Maybe one day a week and for what? like 30 minutes?

I don't state that it is the norm, and we are talking about PCUs since that's what the original claim was all about.

Quote:
Not saying McAltty isn't a troll, but at least he is a troll where the numbers are playing to his advantage.
Since the numbers don't agree with what he's saying, much less with the hallucinatory position he tried to defend, there's literally nothing that is playing to his advantage. He's just trying to come back from his previous misreading and ignorance of server data by wilfully misreading what I'm actually saying and trying to create some rather silly strawman argument out of it.

Quote:
Tippia you appear to be a salmon swimming up stream, what is it you are trying to prove here? You want people to believe that during Euro high times there is 35K players online? Because I never see it, and the numbers say otherwise too.
This, essentially.



I can't believe I am getting sucked into this by you, but here we go.

You said that the PCU hovers around 30-35K players.

The PCU actually never passes 30K players on any day of the week these past few months except on Saturdays and Sundays. Therefore your statement is false.

Alty Trolling Alt there called you out. He is right. I hate to say it, but you are a fool for defending such an obviously wrong position.

The right thing you did say was we haven't seen <20K PCU since 2006. But the Troll wasn't commenting on that.

Just admit you exaggerated, and maybe troll boy will go away.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#123 - 2015-08-09 00:56:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Arthur Direction wrote:
You said that the PCU hovers around 30-35K players.
Yes.
We see this, both in the PCU graph and in the numbers, where some are above 35k and some are below 30k, but as a whole, they hover around that very broad band. It's not low enough that we can really invoke 25k; it's not high enough that we can really invoke 40k. So it's around 30–35k.

Quote:
Alty Trolling Alt there called you out. He is right.
No. He's just pissed off that I ruined his hypothesis of historical data with actual data, and tried to misconstrue “hover around” as meaning “exactly within”, and “a couple of months” to mean “the last week” — all to win back some feeble point of lost pride in defence of an absolute fabrication

Market McSelling Alt wrote:
I don't even think he knows the definition of a Strawman... because what I called BS on was his premise.

No. What you did was construct a strawman that you could call BS on rather than what I was actually saying — and for added effect, you altered the straw man each time it proved to not work.
Arthur Direction
I Accidentally Basilisks
#124 - 2015-08-09 01:15:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Arthur Direction wrote:
You said that the PCU hovers around 30-35K players.
Yes.
We see this, both in the PCU graph and in the numbers, where some are above 35k and some are below 30k, but as a whole, they hover around that very broad band. It's not low enough that we can really invoke 25k; it's not high enough that we can really invoke 40k. So it's around 30–35k.

Quote:
Alty Trolling Alt there called you out. He is right.
No. He's just pissed off that I ruined his hypothesis of historical data with actual data, and tried to misconstrue “hover around” as meaning “exactly within”, and “a couple of months” to mean “the last week” — all to win back some feeble point of lost pride in defence of an absolute fabrication

Market McSelling Alt wrote:
I don't even think he knows the definition of a Strawman... because what I called BS on was his premise.

No. What you did was construct a strawman that you could call BS on rather than what I was actually saying — and for added effect, you altered the straw man each time it proved to not work.



I actually went back through your numbers. I averaged them all together. 30,684 is the average PCU since June 1st.

I don't think its exactly accurate to claim 30-35K... more like just 30K

Now I just think both of you are trolls.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#125 - 2015-08-09 01:37:29 UTC
Great. Another Tippi' "Lets argue minutia and ignore the big picture" thread derailment.

It's like arguing over whether someone has 4 or 5 drops of water when everyone else is sitting in a pool. The fact is, whether 30 or 35k, EVE is one of the lowest PCU MMOs around.

Keep arguing over a few thousand if you like, but what this game needs is another hundred thousand more PCU at least to make it feel like a real world.

Mr Epeen Cool
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#126 - 2015-08-09 01:48:08 UTC
I'm bored as ****, new **** for us old folk....

Walkers, health benefits, easier access to booze and strippers, stronger anti-psychotic meds...

****...anything, I love this game, but god forbid I go online and not become bored to tears after I've done EVERYTHING!

...
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#127 - 2015-08-09 01:48:48 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Great. Another Tippi' "Lets argue minutia and ignore the big picture" thread derailment.

It's like arguing over whether someone has 4 or 5 drops of water when everyone else is sitting in a pool. The fact is, whether 30 or 35k, EVE is one of the lowest PCU MMOs around.

Keep arguing over a few thousand if you like, but what this game needs is another hundred thousand more PCU at least to make it feel like a real world.

Mr Epeen Cool



Good lord I was only asking for us to return to the 50k PCU's we got a couple years ago... but damn I will take 100K too!!!

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#128 - 2015-08-09 05:00:58 UTC
Its a hobby not a game, a change of point of view does help. Bear

Empire, the next new world order.
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#129 - 2015-08-09 07:12:16 UTC
http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

(I maybe have been wrong about Peek EU times... I generally have to log off at around 1800-1900 EVE. so maybe it gets higher numbers after that, but for me. the launcher hasn't shown anything grander than like 25k...

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#130 - 2015-08-09 07:15:45 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Great. Another Tippi' "Lets argue minutia and ignore the big picture" thread derailment.

It's like arguing over whether someone has 4 or 5 drops of water when everyone else is sitting in a pool. The fact is, whether 30 or 35k, EVE is one of the lowest PCU MMOs around.

Keep arguing over a few thousand if you like, but what this game needs is another hundred thousand more PCU at least to make it feel like a real world.

Mr Epeen Cool



Good lord I was only asking for us to return to the 50k PCU's we got a couple years ago... but damn I will take 100K too!!!


I would relish in 50-100k members online... EVE would be full of people to talk to and people to shoot.

Don't know which I prefer more. the shooting them or the talking to them.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Aeon Amadii
#131 - 2015-08-09 13:44:58 UTC
Nine year Eve Player here.

Mostly I dropped off playing because I don't have as much time as I used to. Full time work, full time student - so my time is extremely limited and over the past three years I've found that my time playing Dust 514 has been much more enjoyable because... well, I can actually play it. To elaborate on that, if I have thirty minutes of free time I can either play one/two full matches on Dust 514 or I can run around all over Placid trying to put a fit together.

It's mostly the fact that I'm forced into being a casual player because of the amount of time that I have. I can't spend an entire afternoon farming ISK, so I usually have to throw a PLEX at the problem but even then I have only enough time to make a cheap frigate fit and run it out in Low sec for a little while.

To sum it up, despite having something like 80m SP (I think? Can't remember) I just don't have the time to dedicate to Eve because there's nothing I can really do as a player with limited time to play =P Which is why I like Dust 514 and am excited for Valkyrie.

(This character is the Eve version of Aeon Amadi since there is no cross-forum support)

Member of CPM 2
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#132 - 2015-08-09 13:54:03 UTC
Removed some off topic posts.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD.
Bullets Bombs and Blondes
#133 - 2015-08-09 14:57:40 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Vets what would help other vets retetnion rates?
Bitter vets what would help other bitter vets's retention rates?

We ALL KNOW vets are the lifeblood of this 12year old video game.
We keep it alive.
How can we keep our subs alive?


Have played for some time. Still don't understand what there is to be bitter about. Change? I just adapt. That is why we have fossils, failure to adapt to a rapidly changing environment.
Besides, I am risk averse. Big smile

Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never. Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#134 - 2015-08-09 22:23:24 UTC
Make sure the reason for their bitterness means they have to log in.

eg: construct an amazing narrative after being kicked out of a blue blob and then constantly make new stories about why you will defeat them.

All bitter vets about to leave should join moa.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Samir Duran Xadi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#135 - 2015-08-09 22:41:27 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Great. Another Tippi' "Lets argue minutia and ignore the big picture" thread derailment.

It's like arguing over whether someone has 4 or 5 drops of water when everyone else is sitting in a pool. The fact is, whether 30 or 35k, EVE is one of the lowest PCU MMOs around.

Keep arguing over a few thousand if you like, but what this game needs is another hundred thousand more PCU at least to make it feel like a real world.

Mr Epeen Cool


Eve with 100k+ PCU would be unbearable in its current size. Nobody cares about other mmos that got their population spread in numerous servers. Eve is unique that way, if we go back to 2013 numbers it would be more than enough.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#136 - 2015-08-10 04:26:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Aeon Amadii wrote:
Nine year Eve Player here.

Mostly I dropped off playing because I don't have as much time as I used to. Full time work, full time student - so my time is extremely limited and over the past three years I've found that my time playing Dust 514 has been much more enjoyable because... well, I can actually play it. To elaborate on that, if I have thirty minutes of free time I can either play one/two full matches on Dust 514 or I can run around all over Placid trying to put a fit together.

It's mostly the fact that I'm forced into being a casual player because of the amount of time that I have. I can't spend an entire afternoon farming ISK, so I usually have to throw a PLEX at the problem but even then I have only enough time to make a cheap frigate fit and run it out in Low sec for a little while.

To sum it up, despite having something like 80m SP (I think? Can't remember) I just don't have the time to dedicate to Eve because there's nothing I can really do as a player with limited time to play =P Which is why I like Dust 514 and am excited for Valkyrie.




Yeah this is a more common problem with an aging player base. I got so many hats on right now it's making be shorter.

I have no idea how that can be fixed in Eve Online. It's simply not made for casual play. I had to leave in fall of 2006 because of night school. Now I have to make a choice to play or not get enough sleep, or play for less than an hour. Last year I played World of Tanks most of the fall simply because I could get in, tank and spank, get out. Still had a good time in spite of not having "gold ammo".


The ultimate dilemma is how does a game that is not for casual players handle an aging player base whose obligations are not conducive to playing games? How does such a game survive? Newbros? Most of them don't stay, even the ones who get ganked (as claimed by those who are ganking them). Keep adding content? More content of which there is little time to explore does not mean much. We got freaking sleepers in highsec. That would have been earth shattering nerdgasm stuff in 2012 now it's "meh". New ships? Well Tiericide (I don't disagree with it entirely but still) makes them different only on appearance and racial bonus lines. They look great when spinning them in the hangar at least.


I just don't have answers. I could come up with some but these damn kids won't get off my lawn and I'm running out of brooms to swing at them.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#137 - 2015-08-10 04:39:55 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
I will bite.

I'm an 11.5 year vet.

There was a htread floating around, about giving people who have been here for 10 years a gift, and possibly another at 15 and 20. I think this would be a good start for some, and here is why...

In the real world, shortly after i got married and quit my crappy mobile tech job, i was unemployeed for a bit. I eventually got hired on at Geek Squad for best buy. Typical retail issues, and me being blunt irl makes me not have very good customer service skills. Anyway, the job was meh, the people i worked with were awesome. About three years into it, i was getting bored. And was thinking of changing jobs (in hind sight i should of) then one of our morning meetings, it was announced that not only would 5 year best buy employees get the best buy watch, but geek squad people of five years would get a leather jacket.

At the time, i was kind super into leather jackets, and i said.. well two years huh... ya i could do that.

Two years later, i had my son, my watch, and my jacket. A year later i got canned. (long story)

The point is, an incentive for staying, made me decide that i could hang on a bit, because, well, what the heck. I knew a couple other people who had the same idea.

So, a way that might keep some people thinking 'gods, i've been here 8 years.. wtf am i doing?!?1" migh be to give a 'if you hit 10 years you get this random but cool thing! incentive. The vet station was an interesting idea, but something more useful, like a special skin, a sword for the captains quarters, an outfit or maybe a specla ship might make a few people who might want to bounce go.. well i can wait a bit...

I still have the jacket and watch so meh.


I have been a vet for nearly 9 years but had nearly two months off.

I have seen EvE changed over the years and even if CCP changes things in the game I still play this game as intended.

And I do agree with the above quote.



**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#138 - 2015-08-10 04:48:24 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:


There was no break of 30k this week. The last 30+k day was Sunday, a weekend. And on that last weekend it hit 32k for a few minutes.

The averages are 20k for the last few weeks... Keep looking at averages, zoom out to 3 months, 6 months, a year... all time...

If you think it is ok and healthy for this game to be down 50% from our glory days, then I can't help you.

Data points were over 30k on the days I mentioned, which was over the past week from the time you posted your comment regarding in the past week. Now we are excluding certain days?!? And now with only certain conditions??? F'ing moving bar?? wtf, dude??

And I already explained the difference between numbers from two years ago to the lesser online numbers of today, and that's solid reasoning. You're are asking me to explain it again? Why the hell should I repeat myself to you when you didn't bother to read in the first place? At least I take the time to listen to what people have to say (or to read their bs), then to reason it out and provide a thoughtful reply, but I'm sure there will always be those that struggle with reading, comprehension, reasoning skills, and then even their general laziness.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Loneball
PlexForce07
#139 - 2015-08-10 04:51:28 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:



I just don't have answers. I could come up with some but these damn kids won't get off my lawn and I'm running out of brooms to swing at them.


Being older subjective to divided attention, having dedicated more time to hardcore pvp FULL loot MMOs than most of the EvE player base's time spent sleeping, I believe I've come up with an idea that could help keep the best of us hooked in to gaming-verses.

More idle/semi-passive income generation.

Nothing spectacular. Not any sort of isk generator that'll eclipse active game play (lol f1 spam if you call that active), but something to entice a player to at least be logged in. That coupled with an easy way to connect to "instances". I don't mean instances as in a separate location unreachable by others, but instance as in "something happening" like a tackle or miner defense.

As long as the person is logged in, he's a helluva lot more available to possibly contribute to the content generation of player interaction. And us old, better than the stupid kids, gamers who actually are productive with our lives unlike the ungrateful sponges that comprise 90% of all game's player bases have to get up and do things some times. . . . . Like provide for those sponges.

It sucks because this system already kind of exists with mining. Mining is a great way to passively generate income. Hop into a venture, warp to a random asteroid belt and laser it while you step outside and smoke for 10 minutes. You come back and made 800k or you lost a 500k set up, O WELL no biggy.

Also, heavily enforce the ToS so we don't have to put up with harassment from the young kids who think they know things but actually don't.

Kids are dumb
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#140 - 2015-08-10 04:53:12 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
A hat, don't forget a hat to complete the ensemble.

And a Monocle for the ultimate in bittervet bling?

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura