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Hi Road, Lo Road, Null Road...Who's In Charge Here?
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Vyl Vit
#21 - 2011-12-09 08:27:07 UTC
Opertone wrote:
Am I tired? I can't figure out what OP wants to say...

****** corps are ******. Group effort is fun. Restrictions and commands from Senior stupid leaders is not fun. Because their directions are stupid or boring or waste your online time.


Yeah, you're tired, and yeah, I probably wasn't crystal in what I was saying. I was more looking for some feedback (and got quite a bit of good feedback at that) on the condition (as it were) of management, leadership...whichever, whatever...that prevails in EVE. I see a lot of specific anecdotes about bad experiences had at the hands of over-officious jerks that excel in trying make people feel small (but for an uber few), and I see a lot of suggesting to "find a good corporation." It's got me wondering if that's like Looking For Mr. Goodbar on the one hand.

On the other hand it occured to me that some of us have been trained IRL to manage operations similar to EVE corps. There is a certain amount of knack to it. And, of course it's obvious there's quite a few legends in their own minds convinced they have the right (and power here) to demean and depress people in the act of being "cool".

I figured a bit of give and take on the subject might give one a sense of the prevailing climate, and I'm glad to see everyone who's posted on this thread has a good head on his, or her shoulders. It's not that I fear for Western Civ, or what the youth of today are coming to, it's that along with the views of playing hi, lo and null sec there's almost always references to bad experiences dealing with the legends in their own minds ilk. I was thinking maybe some of the more level-headed, and thus successful players (corp members) might add some light to this rather dark subject as it stands now...all posts considered-wise.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2011-12-09 09:01:48 UTC
Vachir Khan wrote:
Many people can not handle the lures of "being in charge", they feel that because one is "higher up" that means you should shout or act like an idiot. Most people aren't leadership material, simple as. Apart from that, a vast majority of eve players is incompetent, be it solo, in a high sec corp or 0.0 makes no difference in that regard. The result is that the corps they're in or run are ****** fail crap that anyone who's not an idiot will want to avoid (or leave once figured out). This is very normal and you can explain that two ways; "fck them I'll stay solo so I won't have to deal with idiots" is a way of dealing with it (which is what I've been doing for a long time), another is to set your aims high and try to find a GOOD corp which also means making sure you're fit to BE in that corp ofcourse. EVE is about what you KNOW and WHO you know, a realisation that the vast majority of players are non-effort idiots and being able to act on that. Apart from that people skills help as well. So play as you want and simply refuse to be pushed into a situation you dislike or are annoyed by, be it solo or in your quest to find an actual good corp.


You are talking about the importance of competence in leadership, and I have to respectfully disagree. Skill and competence are useful traits for a leader, but they are not the most essential. Imho vital attributes for a good leader would be (in order of importance):
1. Charisma
2. Connections
3. Competence

1. Charisma is what keeps your staff together. Appreciate your subordinates, treat them with respect and always let them know the greater plan. If they can identify with the common goals of the corp and start to feel that their contribution- no matter how small it is- helps the entire corp, they will acquire the necessary skills on their own.
Example: Fleet OP. Leader 1 tries to motivate his corp and give even the smallest guy in corp his own role. Can't fly a cruiser yet? It's ok, take a slasher and try to point the enemy. Your role is important to us, even if it is a small t1 frig. You will very likely die, but scrambling the enemy is simply too important for us...
Leader 2 gives out predefined fittings and a shiplist for the fleet. Can't fly a fully t2 fitted cane yet? Tough luck, buddie, better stay at home and mine some veldspar, we don't need you, you are bad for our killboards...
Long term consequences: The fleet of leader one will very likely get slaughtered on it's first encounter- but the members will learn from their mistakes and will try their best to make it better next time. And they will. The fleet of leader two may be very succesful at first, but less and less players will show up for fleet OPs, simply because they do not care enough, they do not have a feeling of accomplishment, it was all their leaders show and they just felt like exchangeable gears in a big machinery....

2. Connections means politics and diplomacy. I f you know the leaders of other corps /alliances you will have a near endless resource of allies should the need arise. Often this means giving out favours godfather-style and calling on them in times of trouble. Establishing connections takes time, so this is a strong argument for having older players put into leadership roles.

3. Competence. The least important trait. Every single aspect of modern business life has become so complex that you will have to specialize into a specific field to be really good at it. Nobody can specialize in every single aspect. That's why you have "lieutenants". Each of them has his special field and should be good at it- in fact, better than you, their leader.
You will often get their advice on topics related to their special fields, and you should damn well take them serious and treat them with respect and esteem. They keep the company running for you- it is your job to coordinate them and provide common goals for all of them.

OK..that being said-----> returning to mindless drone status, hope at least some of you found these rantings a least a little bit useful.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
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