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The business case for removing the NeX

Author
Stella SGP
#21 - 2011-12-08 19:25:10 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Stella SGP wrote:
But but I like my replica goggles and military heels... and would like to see them only available from the NEX store...


Why?

Because you think that makes it "exclusive"?

Its common as muck. Anybody with a CC can click button and replicate eternally.

If you wanted genuine exclusivity you'd argue for them coming as rare drops or at the end of some complicated player-led industrial function with an eve price tag in billions.

Or do you like to pretend these things are exclusive because you see eve as an essentially single player game?

Pffft... No, I don't think of it as anything exclusive and don't really care about whether NEX is there or not. I just play with it since it is available, nothing more.
Solhild
Doomheim
#22 - 2011-12-08 19:31:00 UTC
I have a problem with the NeX. Can more people please have a go at justifying getting rid of it. Thanks.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#23 - 2011-12-08 19:32:56 UTC
I think the cost savings are ever more so imaginary where as the horrible mess that PLEXs where going to cause isnt that far fectched.

Bottom line those stores will pay for themselves and then some.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#24 - 2011-12-08 19:35:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
Covert Kitty wrote:
CCP has said that they feel that FtP / microtransactions, as opposed to the traditional subscription model is a growing trend, and at minimum they want to have a system in place in case "customers demand it". Well.. they are right, it is growing, or at least was. However, this is because the vast majority (if not all) top tier mmo's that use such a system have just been wow clones, clones that do the wow model slightly differently, but always more poorly than wow itself. So of course, just doing the same thing over again, more poorly than the last time, will find it hard to attract subscriptions. Other games, such as farmville and it's ilk, are just simply not good games, they couldn't make money under any other system. There are also some people that feel they cannot afford a subscription.

The natural progression of this line of thinking is "How do we integrate the two systems, so that we can attract more customers that are used to a FtP model". I would argue that this line of thinking is a fallacy. You do not fundamentally attract customers by diversifying your payment options, you attract them by making a good game. In addition, EvE is a niche game, the people who play it are attracted to that niche. Your goal is not to change EvE in such a way as to make it more palatable to your typical WoW player, but rather to invite them to join our niche on our terms, because eve offers that fundamentally different experience.

"EvE is forever", It's a good mantra, and it's the best way to think about your business. EvE is your business, your not going to make EvE2, your going to continue to expand on, redo, and maintain EvE. On that road you will have to take radical steps that shake people up, one day you may have to take a hard look at the skill system for example. However don't sacrifice short term gains for long term growth and stability.

The NeX is fundamentally gamplay displacing, and thus a drain on the overall game value of EvE, nobody is out there saying "Hey come play EvE because you can buy shoes for your avatar without playing the game". So, as you've said in the past "HTF", admit that it was a bad choice, and just get rid of it. Perhaps have the NeX items be distributed via semi-rare drops from faction bs's, commanders, plex's, etc. Ship skins are a good idea, but should expand on the manufacturing gameplay, not pop into existence via the NeX. All in game items, with the exception of plex should be derived from player actions in game.

Know what EvE is, attract EvE players, don't suffer from multiple personality disorder. MMO's as a whole are a dime a dozen these days, being niche is a GOOD THING :)

Keep focusing on what EvE is good at.


Did the bad NEX steal your lunch and throw your horn rim glasses into the hay field when you were a kid?

It's okay. Times are different now. Leave it alone and it will leave you alone.

Mr Epeen Cool
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#25 - 2011-12-08 19:39:00 UTC
Quote:
Purpose of NeX: to reduce PLEX liabilities in CCP's books.

If that's all they want to do then there are easier ways to fix it. For example:

Give plex a 1 year expiration time, this would limit the amount of long term stockpiles that could be held, in addition to eliminating stockpiles held by those that no longer play the game.

A better approach imo (though contentious I know) would be to allow players to sell plex to others for real money while CCP facilitates and collects a tax on that transaction.

Both of those are better options because they don't fundamentally harm the gameplay of Eve while fixing any long term issues with the plex model. They also do not put us on the microtransaction slippery slope. The real world exchange and tax system was used with success in second life for example, it's a far more Eve-like way of dealing with it imo.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#26 - 2011-12-08 19:42:30 UTC
Stella SGP wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Stella SGP wrote:
But but I like my replica goggles and military heels... and would like to see them only available from the NEX store...


Why?

Because you think that makes it "exclusive"?

Its common as muck. Anybody with a CC can click button and replicate eternally.

If you wanted genuine exclusivity you'd argue for them coming as rare drops or at the end of some complicated player-led industrial function with an eve price tag in billions.

Or do you like to pretend these things are exclusive because you see eve as an essentially single player game?

Pffft... No, I don't think of it as anything exclusive and don't really care about whether NEX is there or not. I just play with it since it is available, nothing more.


So you wouldn't mind in the least if it was moved to a faction loyalty point store right?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Qin Shi Huang
Doomheim
#27 - 2011-12-08 19:46:03 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Purpose of NeX: to reduce PLEX liabilities in CCP's books.
Cost of removing NeX: loss of presumed (uncalculable) ROI (i.e. no reduction in liabilities).


Untangible benefits in a business case should always be quantifyable. They are "uncalculable" but you can still assign a dollar amount to an expected benefit. For example, decrease in employee turnover by 1% in year two ~$450,000 (project manager guess or some sexy analysis from HR).

.

Zakuak
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2011-12-08 19:46:09 UTC
I didn't use the NEX as I have been in a WH for a long time but now im back in K-space and I have found my self shopping a little.

Nothing wrong with NEX, use it or do not. For some players it may very well add value to the game experience and for others, they may never even touch it but to not have it at all....that doesn't make sense.

You have a very diverse population in EVE...so a little of this and a little of that is a good thing.

WIS although not why I sub'd onto eve is still a cool idea. I love the idea that I am now a human toon and not a spaceship all the time. NEX offers up some vanity variety and if it expands with more products will offer an even more personalized Identity for the players to connect with. OFC, none of the NEX stuff means poodoo if you can't run out in your new outfit and show other toons....
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#29 - 2011-12-08 19:50:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Zakuak wrote:
Nothing wrong with NEX
…except that it steals away content from the normal industrial-economy cycle.
Qin Shi Huang wrote:
Untangible benefits in a business case should always be quantifyable. They are "uncalculable" but you can still assign a dollar amount to an expected benefit.
True, but I don't think they expected it to (in part) cause a loss of income in the order of $2–4 million. Blink
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#30 - 2011-12-08 19:52:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Covert Kitty
Quote:
Nothing wrong with NEX, use it or do not. For some players it may very well add value to the game experience and for others, they may never even touch it but to not have it at all....that doesn't make sense.

I don't want to get rid of the items that currently NeX is supplying, nor the idea of WiS, or better character customization. I like the idea of all these things. However they should be obtained from gameplay, and like any other item in the game, anyone given enough isk could buy it from other players on the market. It's the NeX itself that I want gone, replaced by gameplay for those items / features.
Stella SGP
#31 - 2011-12-08 19:54:53 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Stella SGP wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Stella SGP wrote:
But but I like my replica goggles and military heels... and would like to see them only available from the NEX store...


Why?

Because you think that makes it "exclusive"?

Its common as muck. Anybody with a CC can click button and replicate eternally.

If you wanted genuine exclusivity you'd argue for them coming as rare drops or at the end of some complicated player-led industrial function with an eve price tag in billions.

Or do you like to pretend these things are exclusive because you see eve as an essentially single player game?

Pffft... No, I don't think of it as anything exclusive and don't really care about whether NEX is there or not. I just play with it since it is available, nothing more.


So you wouldn't mind in the least if it was moved to a faction loyalty point store right?

I won't mind it at all. Actually I hate PLEX more, but don't really care for the NEX. Weird eh?

Just don't scrap WIS because of NEX.
Stella SGP
#32 - 2011-12-08 20:00:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Stella SGP
Covert Kitty wrote:
I don't want to get rid of the items that currently NeX is supplying, nor the idea of WiS, or better character customization. I like the idea of all these things. However they should be obtained from gameplay, and like any other item in the game, anyone given enough isk could buy it from other players on the market. It's the NeX itself that I want gone, replaced by gameplay for those items / features.

Erm this is already the case, grind isk, buy plex, covert aurums.
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#33 - 2011-12-08 20:03:37 UTC
Quote:
I won't mind it at all. Actually I hate PLEX more, but don't really care for the NEX. Weird eh?
Just don't scrap WIS because of NEX.

PLEX.... well *ideally* we wouldn't have it at all. That said it is basically gameplay neutral, it doesn't displace anything, and the value of PLEX to CCP's credit is mostly allowed to float.

But yeah, while I do think FiS is more important than WiS, I'd love to see WiS, I don't have anything against it. The original video's CCP made of it years ago looked great. Establishments would be a great place to hang out during some downtime, or doing market activities, play some minigames, chat, etc. What I don't want to see is WiS being some big NeX powered shopping mall, which is pretty clearly what CCP was intending to do with it.

WiS should be part of Eve, contributing to its gameplay and immersion. Not a big bright "buy it now" button in Eve.
Zakuak
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2011-12-08 20:08:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Zakuak wrote:
Nothing wrong with NEX
…except that it steals away content from the normal industrial-economy cycle.
Qin Shi Huang wrote:
Untangible benefits in a business case should always be quantifyable. They are "uncalculable" but you can still assign a dollar amount to an expected benefit.
True, but I don't think they expected it to (in part) cause a loss of income in the order of $2–4 million. Blink


Yes Tippia, you are right. Looking at it from that direction, If I had a choice I'd of voted for the items to be produced via players ingame rather then bought from CCP via thin air transfer
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#35 - 2011-12-08 20:09:29 UTC
Quote:
Erm this is already the case, grind isk, buy plex, covert aurums.

Not the same, it may on the surface seem like a trivial difference but deeper down its very different. Everything in Eve, minus the occasional minor holiday present, is player derived. This is not the case with NeX items.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#36 - 2011-12-08 20:10:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Stella SGP wrote:
Erm this is already the case, grind isk, buy plex, covert aurums.
…but it's still not produced by other players, and for no useful reason whatsoever, the process includes two completely pointless steps that don't add anything to the game.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#37 - 2011-12-08 20:11:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
It would be nice if the nex shifted into giving players the freedom of having thier own clothing stores one day even if there is no instation store to have it in.

Alas Skillbooks and Blueprint originals may seeingly never shift into player hands. Though its sensible why they are they do add much more value to the game experince in terms of mechanics over the said clothes.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Dradius Calvantia
Lip Shords
#38 - 2011-12-08 20:12:15 UTC
Stella SGP wrote:

Erm this is already the case, grind isk, buy plex, covert aurums.


That is not what is meant by "created from game play."

You may not have noticed, but one of the fundamental principles of EVE's game play design is that items are created from limited resources by players. This principle is what allows EVE to give the players the complex world of conflicting interest and motivations that it does. When the NEXT store simply magics items into existence, not only does it remove game play opportunities from those players who could other wise be involved in producing them, but it also removes the possibility of conflict over their production.


Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#39 - 2011-12-08 20:15:23 UTC
Quote:
not only does it remove game play opportunities from those players who could other wise be involved in producing them, but it also removes the possibility of conflict over their production.

That's a great way of putting it. It illustrates how completely opposed the NeX model is to what so many of us love about EvE.
Beaches
#40 - 2011-12-08 20:20:38 UTC
Things in EVE should be created by players. Anyone who disagrees or proposes anything not in conformity with that premise is an ignorant charlatan!

20 Icelanders don't belong in a sandbox, they've never even been in a sandbox. There is no sand in Iceland it is all volcanic rock and ash.

Only someone living off of a diet of shark **** would interpret WiS and establishments as an opportunity to try and sell 25$ digital shirts. Looking at you Iceland.