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CCP: Make the mechanics to make this happen
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Omniwing
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#1 - 2011-12-08 17:17:44 UTC
CCP likes EVE to be the ultimate SF simulator. Everyone who has seen SF shows knows how space battles are portrayed (even in CCPs own video's): ships weaving in and out of enemy lines, and multiple small battles between individual ships going on amidst the greater carnage.


Basically this. CCP advertises huge fleet battles with trailers that depict people swinging in and out of enemy lines, in a tiny frigate, explosions going off all around it, while they have an interesting and dynamic battle with another ship type, chaos, smart thinking players using creative use of their dynamic fleets to counter each of the ship types of the other fleet, etc etc etc, and it just isn't that way at all. My last huge fleet battle (linked below) was 70 maelstroms, all you did was 'target this guy...ok fire...now target this guy...ok fire...' On top of that, all the ships clipped into each other, so instead of looking like a cool Sci Fi movie or firing line, it just looked like an orgy of rusty nails and broken solar panels. It didn't even look cool. When I tried to get my friends to watch my 'huge fleet battle' they literally laughed at me because of how boring it was.


TL;DR:
What CCP claims/wants 'huge' fleet battles to be like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rQ9_3DckAQ
What they are actually like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pMhciDWrWg
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2011-12-08 17:21:07 UTC
Omniwing wrote:


TL;DR:
What CCP claims/wants 'huge' fleet battles to be like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rQ9_3DckAQ
What they are actually like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pMhciDWrWg


Then hire a guy to record your battle from dramatic angles in a covops frigate and add trailer music to it before posting on youtube.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Omniwing
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#3 - 2011-12-08 17:24:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Omniwing
Please don't derail the thread, previous.

The type of battle that is being advertised is dynamic. Even in one fleet, there are multiple roles to be filled, against multiple enemy fleet roles. These subgroups in each fleet effect each other as they attempt to complete their tasks. There are greater opportunities for individual or sub-group leader creativity. These are the type of things that are lacking in real EvE. This is a request to CCP for what kind of gameplay we(or at least I) want.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2011-12-08 17:25:52 UTC
Also sports are quite boring compared to movies about sports.

Oh I already hear you screaming ''But no, the superbowl is as exciting as those movies about underdog football teams!''

Yeah, because you know the sport, what's at stake and what it implies.

It's exactly the same thing for EVE.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Omniwing
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#5 - 2011-12-08 17:29:18 UTC
@previous

You're right, its fine. Large fleet fights in EvE are dynamic, engaging, and many pilots can show individual creativity in their piloting or tactics to ensure victory.

/end sarcasm


I typically don't like to use the disrespectful tone of sarcasm.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#6 - 2011-12-08 17:30:52 UTC
Omniwing wrote:
Please don't derail the thread, previous.

The type of battle that is being advertised is dynamic. Even in one fleet, there are multiple roles to be filled, against multiple enemy fleet roles. These subgroups in each fleet effect each other as they attempt to complete their tasks. There are greater opportunities for individual or sub-group leader creativity. These are the type of things that are lacking in real EvE. This is a request to CCP for what kind of gameplay we(or at least I) want.


so you actually want CCP to somehow control how FCs compose their fleets?

sorry to disappoint bub, but its up to the player to utilize roles in fleet comp.
roles do exist and are used, but understand the limits imposed in actual battle and a staged, scripted and choreographed battle for the cameras.

but if you want frigs orbiting stuff at 5m while your drake blob sits at 40 lobbing missiles, you'll have to speak to your FC
Daedalus Arcova
The Scope
#7 - 2011-12-08 17:31:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Daedalus Arcova
If you want more diverse fleets, create them.

Abaddon/Drake/Maelstrom/whatever blobs are ******* boring, and actually quite limited in their capabilities. They play right into the fallacy of rock paper scissors, instead of trying to remake the rules.

Hint: rock AND paper AND scissors will always beat rock OR paper OR scissors.
Omniwing
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#8 - 2011-12-08 17:32:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Omniwing
Well forgive me for wanting my fleet battles to be as sensational as a movie and not as boring as a sports game.... Geez...That's kind of the point of video games.

This is a request to CCP to do what they do, which is create new game mechanics and modify existing ones, to do just that.
Serene Repose
#9 - 2011-12-08 17:35:39 UTC
I like the idea of the independent recorder/journalist. If there were a way to have a solid neut on scene to shoot vid for both sides, that would be a fabulous take-away and keepsake for all concerned. The major problem would be DON'T SHOOT ME! I'M ONLY THE PHOTOGRAPHER! (Sorry Elton.)

If those directing these epic battles were insightful and understood value, they'd find a way to make it happen. Think of what a fabulous job that would be! I was an EVE war correspondent. I could almost volunteer!

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#10 - 2011-12-08 17:38:41 UTC
Omniwing wrote:
Please don't derail the thread, previous.

The type of battle that is being advertised is dynamic. Even in one fleet, there are multiple roles to be filled, against multiple enemy fleet roles. These subgroups in each fleet effect each other as they attempt to complete their tasks. There are greater opportunities for individual or sub-group leader creativity. These are the type of things that are lacking in real EvE. This is a request to CCP for what kind of gameplay we(or at least I) want.


I fly in a 4 man gang and its dynamic as hell. You are doing it wrong TBH.

If I watched it afterwards from all sorts of perspectives with the highlights only, it would look just like a trailer. When I play it it doesn't. Like any other game.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#11 - 2011-12-08 17:39:38 UTC
I had the custom title "War Photographer" for a while. What I was actually doing was looting.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2011-12-08 17:40:18 UTC
Omniwing wrote:
@previous

You're right, its fine. Large fleet fights in EvE are dynamic, engaging, and many pilots can show individual creativity in their piloting or tactics to ensure victory.

/end sarcasm


I typically don't like to use the disrespectful tone of sarcasm.


I have no idea, I've never even been near a fleet fight.

But I do like being right and disrespecting you.

Your argument is that battles in Eve look nothing like battles in the movies.
I'm saying that any battle can look like the battles in the movies if properly shot, dramatized and soundtrack'd.


If you're not okay with uniform fleet doctrines, invent another one that works better. The truth is that in a game like EVE, player skill has a very small effect compared to twitch shooters, and that effect is mitigated in huge fleets by the sheer number of ships present.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Torin Corax
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-12-08 17:40:50 UTC
OK non-troll reply:

In the videos they are ignoring basic Eve mechanics for more "realism". As you can see in the films, crashing your ship into another ship at high speed = death. They also portray line of sight firing.

Both of these mechanics would improve gameplay in my opinion, but they would need to go hand-in-hand. Unfortunately as I understand it, line of sight in particular would add massive load to the servers and is unlikely to happen in the near future.

As for "bumping" actually being fatal given the mass and speeds of the ships involved, I'd say we would need a far better control system in place before this could be implemented in any reasonable fashion. Some people may have excellent manual piloting skills, but most would crash and burn almost every time they undocked (probably at the undock point in fact...Jita 4-4 with fatal collisions would be hilarious).
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#14 - 2011-12-08 17:41:13 UTC
Omniwing wrote:
Can I get some (non troll) replies pulz!
That depends: do you intend to keep on posting or not?

The replies you've been given are not trolls; your answers to them are bordering on it, though. Roll

What you're asking for already exists and already happens — just go out and do it.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-12-08 17:43:31 UTC
Also, hire some professional voice actors to speak on teamspeak instead of your corp mates.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Jenshae Chiroptera
#16 - 2011-12-08 17:43:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
PVP is just fine. It might not be much to look at but try being in those fights - then it feels like the trailers.

P.S. Trailers are also obviously the highlights. No one details all the things that people do in a war such as how the supply line was put together and which administration team dealt with which squad and so forth. History and trailers are made up of the interesting things.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2011-12-08 17:49:41 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
PVP is just fine. It might not be much to look at but try being in those fights - then it feels like the trailers.


Well if those guys who post AWZUM FAIGHTS on youtube would sometimes zoom in and turn off the HUD instead of making us look at 360p resolution colored space dots, it might feel more like the trailers.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#18 - 2011-12-08 18:08:22 UTC
not to mention that CCP also has the ability to fix and add things to the finished video or even to create a battle entirely from scratch in the editor

since they have the 3d assets its fairly simple (if someone has the time) to export simple animations from the 3d development suite on a solid keyable background and just build the entire thing on a background screen shot

of course its much easier to film it live, but the idea is you can do pretty much anything in post with the right tools (FCP or Adobe CS) to make it look even better
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-12-08 18:14:15 UTC

I'll get flamed for this. ^^

It's not the fights that make are boring per se, it's the FCs.

Want more fun ? Remove FCs and teach pilots how to think in a collective.
Will never happen. For the same reason why people need FCs.

Too bad. Now flame away, i already know plenty of stupid responses that'll come. :)
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#20 - 2011-12-08 18:18:39 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:

I'll get flamed for this. ^^

It's not the fights that make are boring per se, it's the FCs.

Want more fun ? Remove FCs and teach pilots how to think in a collective.
Will never happen. For the same reason why people need FCs.

Too bad. Now flame away, i already know plenty of stupid responses that'll come. :)



BUT FLEETZ NEED SCAPEGOATS!
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