These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Public Journal and Witness of Shaddam Daphiti
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Arrendis
TK Corp
#81 - 2015-09-01 02:08:23 UTC
Alizebeth Amalath wrote:
The issue of her return is that she will be able to do something due to her Divinely appointed position that we will not be able to do for ourselves. We can defeat the drifters, with effort and God's grace.


What I referred to was:

Quote:

Blessed Empress Jamyl I returned in the time of her people's greatest need to dispatch the Elder Fleet
Alizebeth Amalath
Doomheim
#82 - 2015-09-01 03:33:03 UTC
At that time, there was no Emperor, which is a very important position in the Empire and faith. The Blooder Chamberlain was in charge and had let the Empire atrophy to the point where we were not capable of beating the Elder fleet. Her Majesty has ascended into Paradise and left behind a strong Empire, one that is capable of dealing with this threat and will chose a new Emperor soon.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#83 - 2015-09-01 04:13:24 UTC
Alizebeth Amalath wrote:
At that time, there was no Emperor, which is a very important position in the Empire and faith. The Blooder Chamberlain was in charge and had let the Empire atrophy to the point where we were not capable of beating the Elder fleet. Her Majesty has ascended into Paradise and left behind a strong Empire, one that is capable of dealing with this threat and will chose a new Emperor soon.


At this time, there is no Emperor. And it doesn't look like the Amarr Navy is dealing with much of anything.
Shaddam Daphiti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2015-09-01 05:26:49 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Alizebeth Amalath wrote:
At that time, there was no Emperor, which is a very important position in the Empire and faith. The Blooder Chamberlain was in charge and had let the Empire atrophy to the point where we were not capable of beating the Elder fleet. Her Majesty has ascended into Paradise and left behind a strong Empire, one that is capable of dealing with this threat and will chose a new Emperor soon.


At this time, there is no Emperor. And it doesn't look like the Amarr Navy is dealing with much of anything.



Not to lend credence to ressurectionist teachings, but you are actually mistaken. The drifter incursion that immediately followed her Majesties murder was turned and repelled.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#85 - 2015-09-01 05:42:06 UTC
Shaddam Daphiti wrote:
Not to lend credence to ressurectionist teachings, but you are actually mistaken. The drifter incursion that immediately followed her Majesties murder was turned and repelled.


Don't believe that for a moment. Mokk was reporting from the combat zone that the Navy's forces were being slaughtered without appreciable resistance.

The Drifters pulled back. You don't know why. I don't know why. But they weren't 'turned and repelled' any more than they were in Safizon.
Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#86 - 2015-09-02 00:42:37 UTC
Lunarisse Aspenstar wrote:
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:

Even though God is beyond being strictly proven or disproven, that doesn't mean there are no reasons to believe in the existence of God (in fact, there are). I won't go into the details of fundamental theology and apologetics here, so indicating those two filed which deal with such reasons and the defense of them on rational ground has to suffice.


The Blessed Amarr know God is proven through his active involvement in our history. From the very earliest days from the journey of the Blessed Dano Gheinok to Athra the assistance and guidance of the Sefrim in the days of Amash-Akura and the signs therewith, the physical gifts of the Sefrim in the form of the Ametat and the Avetat, the witness of St. Junip of Aerui and the Prophet Anoyia and his other multitudes of Saints and Prophets - who we venerate but do not worship - miracles over the ages all the way through to the Divine Miracle where the late and Blessed Empress Jamyl I returned in the time of her people's greatest need to dispatch the Elder Fleet with a weapon that, much like the Hand of God, needed only one sweep. To trust and hope that the Living God will act with his Hands once more does not strike me as heresy so long as the Faithful also do their own share and work in furtherance of his ends and do not fall into complacency or error from established Scriptures and precepts of the Faith.


Strictly speaking, that is not proof: It's evidence, but not to the extant that any strict proof has been provided. To prove God, you'd have to give reason why he exists that is incontrovertible. As God is the reason for everything that exists and is itself uncaused, you'll have a hard time to give a strict proof of His existence. As it is, all those historical incidents do not necessitate anyone to assume the existence of God: There are other interpretations available. Thus, faithful and educated Amarr don't take those historical happenings blindly as evidence for God but rather in the light of the reasons to assume an uncaused first cause, that is God, in the first place.

To trust and hope that God will act once more isn't heresy. But that's not the point: The 'resurrectionist' error doesn't consist in that hope and trust, but rather in treating a mere possibility of how God will act as a fact about how God will act. God is free in how he will act in the future and unless there is good reason to assume that God promised any specific action, it is better and more divine to simply trust that God will stand by the faithful in the best way, rather than ascribing to him headlessly specific future actions simply because we would like to see them in our imperfection.
Shaddam Daphiti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#87 - 2015-09-02 07:21:41 UTC
Laying aside questionable doctrine for the moment I find myself at a difficult point of choice in the matter of Supporting an heir.
I have said before that doing so was vanity, and I confess, based largely on my expiriance prior to being Capsuleer.

I try not to dwell on the past, I have left much of it behind but... Having my birth and upbringing on Amarr Prime, Athra in it's original name... Has colored my views.

Our world was the seat of the Emperor... We have no favored family because to have such might cloud service to God's Chosen. Sarum, Tash-merkon, and the other great families intentionally keep to the other nearby systems... Thus dubbed the Throne Worlds.

Now that I am capsuleer I have finally seen that I do have a role to play in God's selection... But with whom do I cast my lot.. And if I choose wrongly is that a sin?

I pray for guidance.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#88 - 2015-09-02 08:36:48 UTC
Shaddam Daphiti wrote:
Now that I am capsuleer I have finally seen that I do have a role to play in God's selection... But with whom do I cast my lot.. And if I choose wrongly is that a sin?

I pray for guidance.


God has made his choice, pilot. He knew which of these Heirs was going to win before he created the universe. That's what it means to be omniscient.

You cannot sin in your choice - for in this, God's choice has already been made, and that Heir will win. But the Heirs who lose will still need Champions in order to compete. Thus, if you support a candidate who is not victorious, your choice was not a violation of God's will, but an action necessary to its fulfillment. For if capsuleers only support the candidate God has chosen, then God's Chosen cannot win, because the others cannot lose. They must have supporters, and Champions, that their part in unfolding events can be played to their destined ends.

I mean, if you believe in God'n stuff. I believe in GoonScout Cookies™. We've still got.... lemme see... one... two... that's a stack...

... several million boxes of ChreMoas and Blue Donuts, just waiting for someone who can appreciate them.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#89 - 2015-09-02 09:25:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
I would like it if atheists stopped attempting to speak with authority on things they know nothing of. Whether or not God has already chosen is not and cannot be known to us.

We only know what He has commanded of us as His servants, and that is to carry out His will and prove that we are worthy of ruling in His name. The succession is dictated by Him, but the argument is made by us. There is no sin in choosing wrongly. The only sin is in passively sitting back and doing nothing. It is our duty to prove to God that our heir is worthy of being His voice. This is the purpose of the succession trials. If you truly believe that your heir is the one who will most faithfully and capably carry out God's will, then invest yourself fully in them and fight with all your devotion. God will hear your conviction.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#90 - 2015-09-02 19:12:31 UTC
Of course, Lieutenant. I apologize for the presumption.

I'll send some cookies as an apology.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#91 - 2015-09-02 19:17:31 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
I would like it if atheists stopped attempting to speak with authority on things they know nothing of...

Of course, it's not like you zealots never come unbidden into one of our threads to offer up your opinions. Roll

Also, so much for trying to convert through peaceful means. Here you have a perfect opportunity to teach about the glory of your god and golden empire but, instead you choose to mock and moralize. Duplicity and hypocrisy thy name is Amarr.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#92 - 2015-09-02 19:28:50 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Also, so much for trying to convert through peaceful means. Here you have a perfect opportunity to teach about the glory of your god and golden empire but, instead you choose to mock and moralize. Duplicity and hypocrisy thy name is Amarr.


I'm confused. I'm speaking honestly, but you're saying I should be speaking dishonestly. And then you're calling us the duplicitous and hypocritical ones?

Hm.
Shaddam Daphiti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#93 - 2015-09-02 21:00:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Shaddam Daphiti
Anabella Rella wrote:

Of course, it's not like you zealots never come unbidden into one of our threads to offer up your opinions. Roll

Also, so much for trying to convert through peaceful means. Here you have a perfect opportunity to teach about the glory of your god and golden empire but, instead you choose to mock and moralize. Duplicity and hypocrisy thy name is Amarr.


There is nothing wrong with offering ones thoughts, so long as one does not offer them with pretense of being more than that with out support.

A Member of the Goon-swarm can see that, can it be that you are so full of hate you cannot see it yourself?
Quote:

so much for trying to convert through peaceful means


here again you show your ignorance... God uplifts all, it is the Will of God That ALL be reclaimed. That Amarr is closest to reclamation makes it Amarr's task to aid others as they are reclaimed themselves. We do not convert anyone.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#94 - 2015-09-02 21:25:58 UTC
You don't convert anyone.... RIGHT. Then your love of slavery is an economic thing?

* waits for the generic "we show them suffering to get closer to God argument *
Shaddam Daphiti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#95 - 2015-09-02 21:46:32 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
You don't convert anyone.... RIGHT. Then your love of slavery is an economic thing?

* waits for the generic "we show them suffering to get closer to God argument *


Your bitterness shows in your willful ignorance. The Empire has not taken new slaves since before you were conceived, those kept now by Holders are 8th generation or lower. It is possible you are confusing the Empire with heathen groups such as the Angel Cartel, which does take slaves regularly.

Even then enslavement does not uplift, that action occurs only between the slave and God.

There is no debate that there are some who take a perverse enjoyment of applying the whip... and as far as I'm concerned Vitox and chipping are disgusting. Being apart from God creates it's own suffering... there is no need to inflict more apart perhaps from mastery of the flesh.

I am not a Holder so I cannot claim to have full knowledge of their duties to their slaves .. but feel free to ask one.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#96 - 2015-09-02 22:03:45 UTC
Shaddam Daphiti wrote:
Your bitterness shows in your willful ignorance. The Empire has not taken new slaves since before you were conceived, those kept now by Holders are 8th generation or lower.


So no prisoners of war or criminals have been enslaved in almost three decades? No children have been born to 8th-gen slave parents in the last seven years?

Fascinating. I wonder how they went and sterilized so many...
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#97 - 2015-09-02 22:10:52 UTC
Willfully ignorant? Ignorant when it involves Amarrian, well, anything, yes. Willfully? I'm more than willing to hear about who I fight, the problem? Most questions I ask are met with reiteration of my question or "my faith says so," followed by some fancy words and then some name and number. If not that then sarcasm. Really there is only one person of your faith who (more than likely sarcastically) explained a question I've asked in a way that actually made me stop and think. So I will ask if it doesn't offer "upliftment" or whatever, if its not an economic move why does it still exist? Eighth gen, seventh gen or newly enslaved is irrelevant.
Shaddam Daphiti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#98 - 2015-09-02 23:10:59 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
Willfully ignorant? Ignorant when it involves Amarrian, well, anything, yes. Willfully? I'm more than willing to hear about who I fight, the problem? Most questions I ask are met with reiteration of my question or "my faith says so," followed by some fancy words and then some name and number. If not that then sarcasm. Really there is only one person of your faith who (more than likely sarcastically) explained a question I've asked in a way that actually made me stop and think. So I will ask if it doesn't offer "upliftment" or whatever, if its not an economic move why does it still exist? Eighth gen, seventh gen or newly enslaved is irrelevant.


What it offers is guidance, guardianship, and counseling during what is arguably the most difficult phase of the reclaimation process. As to the question of why it was not abolished entirely by her Holiness, those under the 8th generation were not ready. You would not release a toddler child to the wild... In the same way slaves are not released until they are mature. You would need to ask a Holder what the signs of such readiness were.
Shaddam Daphiti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2015-09-02 23:18:49 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Shaddam Daphiti wrote:
Your bitterness shows in your willful ignorance. The Empire has not taken new slaves since before you were conceived, those kept now by Holders are 8th generation or lower.


So no prisoners of war or criminals have been enslaved in almost three decades? No children have been born to 8th-gen slave parents in the last seven years?

Fascinating. I wonder how they went and sterilized so many...


A prisoner is a prisoner, though some may choose to commit to slavery to better themselves it is not forced upon them to make that commitment. The child of a slave is a slave at birth, reclaimation is as much a cultural process as it is personal.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#100 - 2015-09-02 23:20:49 UTC
So, they're not ready to go forth and do what countless people before them have? People have existed and led fulfilling lives without "being ready" in the Amarrian sense. Did your people need to be cultivated as such? If not then how can you be sure you don't need to be in chains next to them. This faith you have seems to have a clause that omits you all from your own rules. Maybe I just don't get it. But I'm sure its not hard to have faith in a system that doesn't apply to you.