Wormholes

Isn't it possible to set the vulnerability window?

Set it to your primetime, extra content if someone is griefing you.

win-win?

I'm probably missing something though.

Also predictable undocks, how does this affect anything? You will have to use one bubble to wrap a citadel instead of the 5 now?

Imho citadels will actually be good for small, new corps living in wspace because of asset security. They wont need to worry about loosing their stuff to corp thiefs or bigger groups, thus making recruitment less of a hassle.

Docking and undocks will hopefully be addressed by the invulnerability link mechanics that will stand in place of POS shields. Other mechanics we are discussing will prevent station games to a great extent. The dynamics of camping will also be different due to citadel weapons. There will be trade offs but it is not due to laziness, it is about designing systems that can be more easily tweaked and balanced for the long term.

how are your assets safe? they don't drop, but you're effectively locked out of them unless you can get another citadel in the same hole and let it sit for 5/6d.

I think it would be a mistake to make asset safety in wormholes significantly worse than in null or low. Asset safety is as important to our pilots as it is to pilots anywhere else for all the same reasons. More significantly it is important that our space be a vibrant busy place rather than a barren emptiness. If our assets are significantly less safe than everyone elses it is far more likely that our land will be empty than occupied. Higher stakes will also promote risk averse behavior such as long term blueing of everyone possible which is also not in a behavior that will make for a more vibrant space. So while it would be nice if assets everywhere were at risk it would in my opinion be a mistake to impose that only on our home. Instead we should encourage game design that will make our space busier and our neighbors less risk averse.

See, now that's a suggestion I could get behind. In addition to the raw materials and allegedly super expensive station modules dropping, the attacker also gets a nice raw ISK injection. The person who just got mugged doesn't care, because they are paying that fee regardless - and they still have a chance to recover assets, which as Kynric so eloquently posted above will hopefully lead to less risk aversion and an increase in people living in W-space. And the short sighted people crying about loot not dropping in the form that it does now still get some nice reward for their eviction efforts.... in addition to the tears, of course.

+1

At least half the recovery fee should go to the attacker (individual, corp, alliance?) in all spaces except wh. There must be some incentive to burn things down, especially in highsec where loot drops currently serve this purpose.

Wormholes should just drop loot imho.

Docking, the ability to trash all your items when loosing your citadel, no ability to Dscan what ships are active in the structure, personal hangers,

I mean, who the **** at CCP heard "No stations in W-space" and thought of suggesting stations in W-space?
Even with all the changes CCP is thinking about to accommodate us, it really just touches the surface of fixing a system that is fundamentally wrong.

Can we have CCP Soundwave back here so he can beat some sense into whoever is calling the shots at CCP?

Most of these notes were brought up by Corbexx, me, and possibly other people (it's been so long ago now it's hard to remember). What you see here today is the result of concessions and compromises, many of which specifically try (try) to address these concerns.

1. Docking will not be the same as current station/outpost docking for many, many reasons. It is a major design goal to not have cancerous docking games for either attackers or defenders. I know nobody here wants docking but docking was gonna happen no matter what so hopefully the way it functions here turns out much more reasonably.
2. The invulnerability link (name TBD) is designed to approximate shield functionality, allowing the owners to move and warp freely around their Citadel. Hopefully it will also prevent bumping. Regardless, it gives owners a very large positioning and mobility advantage.
3. Hell camping and trivial bubble tactics will be significantly harder to pull off than on a station/outpost for three reasons. One is that players in the citadel can see outside the citadel. Two is that players allied to the citadel can undock into invulnerability and navigate around these obstacles if not well-placed. Third is citadel weapons, which can be manned from inside the structure. If you anchor a bubble or put non-trivial forces outside the citadel, they will be in for a world of pain.
4. I have asked (as have others) that mechanics are put in place to commit people who drop their citadel link to a fight. That is, if you undock and get caught by someone because chose to drop link, that person can prevent you from docking back up.
5. D-scan will still work on anyone who is undocked and moored/linked to the citadel. As for anyone inside, there will be some kind of functionality, either passive or active, to let you view or scan the structure to learn who is in it or other info. Those details haven't been worked out yet.
6. Personal and corp hangars, there is certainly a big step up in safety there. However any individual can be denied structure access at any time, so if your dream is to collect tears and lock people out of their stuff, you certainly can. You can't really steal it, but they certainly will never get it back once you pod them.
7. Asset safety I agree is way too safe right now for w-space. It is being considered. That said it is still MUCH more dangerous in wormhole space than k-space for the person losing their stuff. People who lose will lose big. It's just that the winners right now won't win as big... but then again that depends just how expensive structure fittings are.

No matter what feedback was given, the reality is CCP has no interest in coming up with structures that only work in certain parts of space or only can be anchored in certain parts of space. I'm sure part of it is efficiency, simplicity, etc. I hope you understand none of these changes were made lightly. Some were certainly contentious, like the lack of auto guns etc. However the vulnerability settings and large number of entosis cycles placated some fears that a single trollceptor would show up and blap an XL in a day. That is functionally impossible, especially in w-space.

I am still hoping for partial/full asset looting in wormhole space, or full asset destruction, or that recovery fees are paid to the attackers and not NPCs. So it's not all perfect.

No more selfdestruct-parties.

If you break your invullink and can´t get it back up is still a big change from current forcefield mechanics. Defenders often decide to stick their nose out, but if cought they are able to retreat back under the FF without getting completely wiped. But it doesn´t depend on some random timer noone else can see but on the pilotskills to navigate or MJD back and the other parties abiliets to prevent that.

Assetsafety is such a huge point of discussion because people have different views on it, probably depending on what they are used to. Wormholers esp in lowerclasses are used to the thought that everything can be gone within a moment. In higherclasses, in case of eviction, you can at least fill your carriers and save those assets, but still loose a lot. In sov and FW low you can at worst get locked away from your assets for as long until you get it hauled out somehow or sell it on the market. Worst losses possible are production-POSses and if you are into supercapproduction loosing one is not fun but will also not make you poor.
Same goes for spies and thieves, but everybody agrees possafety needs to be upped. But stationlevel security is the other extreme and too much in my opinion.

You can already feel the difference when you see people complaining they´d loose their implants if they are docked in a destroyed citadel.

Edit: the mayor deterrent from invasions without capitals is the 20+ manhours you need to put in to RF stuff. Even with capitalmassed holes seeding takes time. That barrier will be gone, esp if you are able to pod the defenders at the moment active pilots out beforehand. There is no way to stop people from getting into their citadel in k-space when it is under attack, they can probably just jumpclone there or set it as homebase. Has CCP thought about that difference too?