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Collective petition about fozziesov

First post First post First post
Author
Shonion
FREE GATES
FREE GATES COALITION
#21 - 2015-07-31 21:48:48 UTC
I need a bigger dish to collect all of this...
The Slayer
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2015-07-31 21:50:08 UTC
Suck it nerds.
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#23 - 2015-07-31 21:54:56 UTC
UAxDEATH wrote:
Alliances signed petition




What wars have any of these people done with the new sov system that lets them make informed ideas on how to fix a sov system that’s just over two weeks old that will affect every single person in null sec?
What has any one done in the new sov system other than get some unused systems attacked?
None of these people speak for me.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-07-31 21:55:53 UTC
this is gonna be good

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#25 - 2015-07-31 21:56:14 UTC
UAxDEATH wrote:
We the renter coalitions of nullsec!

FTFY
Jabbrail
5.11
#26 - 2015-07-31 21:56:32 UTC
I d like to support the petition.
The situation where whole system can be influenced or better say harassed by 1 small interceptor is not going to bring additional people to claim sectors, but in opposite will be drawing them away from claims and from the game as well.

Another suggestion is to make the size of Entosis Links available to use them on Battlecruisers and Battleships only.
Another thing which can be added is to have a cycle for Entosis Link similas as a cycle for Cyno Unit - 10 min per cycle and ship can not be controlled and it will become very vulnerable to defenders.

The idea of it is to force the attackers to bring some additional vessels in order to protect a ship carrying the Entosis Link.

Right now there is no fun at all to have a multiple "catch my interceptor" atta
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-07-31 22:01:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
Jabbrail wrote:

Another suggestion is to make the size of Entosis Links available to use them on Battlecruisers and Battleships only.


Sounds like an easy enough fix for me.
Or, make Entosis Links remove the "Interdiction Nullified"- ability from any ship they are fitted on, no matter what.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

davet517
Raata Invicti
#28 - 2015-07-31 22:05:17 UTC  |  Edited by: davet517
Problem: You're trying to hold more space than you can defend, and in some cases, rent it out, when the mechanics don't favor that anymore.

Solution: Stop that.
Fafer
Tr0pa de elite.
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2015-07-31 22:08:40 UTC
Tappits wrote:
UAxDEATH wrote:
Alliances signed petition




What wars have any of these people done with the new sov system that lets them make informed ideas on how to fix a sov system that’s just over two weeks old that will affect every single person in null sec?
What has any one done in the new sov system other than get some unused systems attacked?
None of these people speak for me.


Its old more than two weeks, its been explained and analysed before, and its been on Duality, where some of the people mentioned won the sov competition, and also all of them have hands on experience at this moment, which gives them base to be informed.
None of this people ever claimed to speak for you, but for sure they don't need your informed approval to voice their opinion about the tweaks.

Paranoid Loyd
#30 - 2015-07-31 22:11:09 UTC
Is "collective petition" high or lower on the tears scale than "open letter"?

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Jabbrail
5.11
#31 - 2015-07-31 22:16:30 UTC
davet517 wrote:
Problem: You're trying to hold more space than you can defend, and in some cases, rent it out, when the mechanics don't allow that anymore.

Solution: Stop that.


There is no "stop" solution for this.
Cause if you want to get a claim - bring your fleet.
If your fleet wins - you ll get the claim.
Right now it is more like OMFGLOLZ type attack on multiple systems with 1-2 interceptors or even t1 frigs.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2015-07-31 22:17:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Stan
UAxDEATH wrote:
Alliances signed petition



I'd like to propose some questions to the above alliances:

What type of systems have you been defending? How many pilots are typically active in them, what do they do in those systems, and how far do they have to travel in order to mount a defense? Why do you want to retain those systems?

What type of systems have you been attacking? What made you want to have Sov in those systems?

Your goal should be preventing anything from being reinforced in the first place. If you cannot do that, you do not effectively hold Sov of that system and you deserve to lose it, or get burned out trying to win the capture events. You should stop fighting over those systems you can't hold on to. Getting burned out is your punishment for trying to operate in the Dominion Sov paradigm.

Interceptors are perfectly suited for effecting Aegis Sov - because the only Sov they can challenge for is unoccupied Sov, and unoccupied Sov isn't sovereignty at all. If you want to hold on to a system but can't be bothered to have pilots in it during its vulnerability window, you don't deserve to hold Sov there.

In NPC null, chasing off a lone Interceptor is incredibly easy. We simply undock. They never stay within 25km, the range of a T1 Entosis. If a hostile Interceptor is Entosing your Outpost, undock. Blap them if they stick around, enjoy the view of the stars for a little bit if fly off and ruin their Entosis cycle. If they're after a TCU or I-hub, simply warp a Navy Vex or Caracal or whatever to it. If this happens in an empty system four jumps away from anybody, you shouldn't have Sov there and it's your own fault you're burning yourself out. You need to adapt. That burnout is Aegis Sov working as intended.

And if that Interceptor is bait for a 100-pilot T3 gang on the other side of a wormhole - there's your large fleet fight you're looking for.

I do agree that there should be a sort of passive regen of defense index, so that simply going after hostile ships without bothering with your own Entosis ships is a valid defense tactic. That way defenders can put all their pilots into mobile offensive ships if they so desire. This passive regen should not happen if there is even a single node being Entosed by an attacker, so that it does not extend the time of an active attack effort.
meandeane651
The Red Island Foundation
#33 - 2015-07-31 22:20:43 UTC
As head diplomat and alliance command for Gentlemen'sClub, we support the reforms proposed by UAxDEATH.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2015-07-31 22:24:04 UTC
Jabbrail wrote:
davet517 wrote:
Problem: You're trying to hold more space than you can defend, and in some cases, rent it out, when the mechanics don't allow that anymore.

Solution: Stop that.


There is no "stop" solution for this.
Cause if you want to get a claim - bring your fleet.
If your fleet wins - you ll get the claim.
Right now it is more like OMFGLOLZ type attack on multiple systems with 1-2 interceptors or even t1 frigs.


Multiple systems that are so empty you can't even blap a single t1 frig? Sounds like the very definition of "holding more space than you can defend" to me. Even a lone Skiff can chase off or kill a single t1 frig.
davet517
Raata Invicti
#35 - 2015-07-31 22:25:21 UTC  |  Edited by: davet517
Jabbrail wrote:
There is no "stop" solution for this.
Cause if you want to get a claim - bring your fleet.
If your fleet wins - you ll get the claim.
Right now it is more like OMFGLOLZ type attack on multiple systems with 1-2 interceptors or even t1 frigs.


There is. Here you go:

1. Claim only the space that you intend to live in.
2. Live in it. Your indexes will rise.
3. If someone comes during your prime time to troll space that you are actually living in, kill them.
4. Profit.

Your days of being an absentee landlord are behind you. So are your days of holding an entire region of systems populated by one nullified tengu and a tower. Adapt.
Jabbrail
5.11
#36 - 2015-07-31 22:32:11 UTC
davet517 wrote:
Jabbrail wrote:
There is no "stop" solution for this.
Cause if you want to get a claim - bring your fleet.
If your fleet wins - you ll get the claim.
Right now it is more like OMFGLOLZ type attack on multiple systems with 1-2 interceptors or even t1 frigs.


There is. Here you go:

1. Claim only the space that you intend to live in.
2. Live in it. Your indexes will rise.
3. If someone comes during your prime time to troll space that you are actually living in, kill them.
4. Profit.

Your days of being an absentee landlord are behind you. So are your days of holding an entire region of systems populated by one nullified tengu and a tower. Adapt.


My point is, that I am absolutely for a Good Fight.
Have your fleets ready and claim everything you can claim!
I am not against the principles.
But it looks crazy then you start a war with a country, gather your troops and next day 1 spy is putting enemy flag on central square and you lose your capital.
WTF?!!!!
I want a fight, not "hide and seek" game. I have them enough in a kindergarden.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2015-07-31 22:36:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Stan
Jabbrail wrote:
Have your fleets ready and claim everything you can claim!


NO. No! You're still not getting it. Claim only what you can occupy. It is easy, by design, to claim something with Aegis Sov yet it's difficult to retain if - unless you live in it.

Quote:
But it looks crazy then you start a war with a country, gather your troops and next day 1 spy is putting enemy flag on central square and you lose your capital.


No big deal - simply attack a target that is vulnerable during your invulnerability window. Then they cannot attack you while you are on the offensive.
davet517
Raata Invicti
#38 - 2015-07-31 22:37:08 UTC
Jabbrail wrote:
[quote=davet517]I want a fight, not "hide and seek" game. I have them enough in a kindergarden.


You're joking, right? I used to live in your neighborhood, remember? Explain to me how what you are describing is any different from planting an AFK cloaker in a system 23/7. Hide and seek game, right?

If you live in the space, you can deal with the trolls. If you deal with the trolls, you will have no timers. If you have no timers, you will have no problem. The only time you will have to actually defend your sov in a capture event is when someone comes heavy, looking to take it.

PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#39 - 2015-07-31 22:41:41 UTC  |  Edited by: PAPULA
When CCP thinks it's ready, it' done.
It's the same thing with the new icons, players just don't like the new icons, what happened ?
Absolutely nothing, CCP will not go back to old icons, and so CCP doesn't care about sov anymore, it will stay no matter what we do.

What's super funny, we just took a station, and now our alliance owns a station, when i try to dock at that station it says: you're now allowed to dock, and it's our station, so yea fozzie sov really is stupid.

Anyone with a noob ship or t-1 cruiser can now go and take any system they wish in 10min.
Ugh
Marigo Silas
Ad Perpetuam Memoriam Heideran VII
Silent Infinity
#40 - 2015-07-31 22:46:17 UTC
Jabbrail wrote:
davet517 wrote:
Jabbrail wrote:
There is no "stop" solution for this.
Cause if you want to get a claim - bring your fleet.
If your fleet wins - you ll get the claim.
Right now it is more like OMFGLOLZ type attack on multiple systems with 1-2 interceptors or even t1 frigs.


There is. Here you go:

1. Claim only the space that you intend to live in.
2. Live in it. Your indexes will rise.
3. If someone comes during your prime time to troll space that you are actually living in, kill them.
4. Profit.

Your days of being an absentee landlord are behind you. So are your days of holding an entire region of systems populated by one nullified tengu and a tower. Adapt.


My point is, that I am absolutely for a Good Fight.
Have your fleets ready and claim everything you can claim!
I am not against the principles.
But it looks crazy then you start a war with a country, gather your troops and next day 1 spy is putting enemy flag on central square and you lose your capital.
WTF?!!!!
I want a fight, not "hide and seek" game. I have them enough in a kindergarden.


Well if that one spy drove up in a jeep and you didn't have any soldiers for miles to shoot him, then yeah, that could happen.

You're treating this like dominion sov: ignore the first attack and defend if necessary only at the reinforcement timer. The defender wins by making the attacker do the work 2 or 3 times to win, while the defender only has to show once. You win battles in this system by having lots of buffer systems and exhausting your opponent. It rewards holding more space, if only to make it more painful to attack you.

The goal of fozziesov is for you not to let them reinforce it in the first place. In fozziesov, holding space you don't need, don't regularly use, and don't defend, is DESIGNED to be painful. It's to tell you that you need to downsize a little bit.

You get to select a limited window, when you should have your maximum population on, as the only time you can be attacked. Furthermore, if you are actually using your systems, attackers have to orbit for silly amounts of time, uncontested, to do anything. If you can't deal with it in that amount of time, you probably have too many systems.

Now certain things I could see, certainly fixing any outright bugs like vulnerability timer issues, maybe bumping up the fitting or penalty requirements a *little* bit so that you can clearly counter an entosis ship with its mirror if its undefended. But your post just comes as someone basically wanting the entire basis of the changes reversed, because they liked the way it was. To be expected, since many of the alliances on that list of yours paid for lots of space and/or made lots of money renting it out. This system will no longer work, by design.