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Share your experiences with Fozziesov!

First post First post
Author
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#101 - 2015-08-03 21:49:26 UTC
Billy Bojangle wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
People that support the game becoming more boring are hardly the types of people CCP should listen to when making development decisions.

Hence, they're ignoring you and the rest of the "I CBA to chase a ceptor," crowd, because you're asking for a rollback to an even more stale and boring sov system.
Few people are asking for a rollback, most are just asking for action to be taken to make this system actually work.

And how is the old system more stale? We used to have fights most of the time. Now, even the russian blocks have called a cease fire to their unending war. Nobody wants a serious fight with anybody, and the only people bothering to play with the new sov system would rather run away than actually fight for it because even they don't want the sov. If you legitimately think this system is working and you're not just thinking "grr goons" then there's no helping you.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Kiandoshia
Likely Suspects
RAZOR Alliance
#102 - 2015-08-03 22:59:31 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Billy Bojangle wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
People that support the game becoming more boring are hardly the types of people CCP should listen to when making development decisions.

Hence, they're ignoring you and the rest of the "I CBA to chase a ceptor," crowd, because you're asking for a rollback to an even more stale and boring sov system.
Few people are asking for a rollback, most are just asking for action to be taken to make this system actually work.

And how is the old system more stale? We used to have fights most of the time. Now, even the russian blocks have called a cease fire to their unending war. Nobody wants a serious fight with anybody, and the only people bothering to play with the new sov system would rather run away than actually fight for it because even they don't want the sov. If you legitimately think this system is working and you're not just thinking "grr goons" then there's no helping you.


This is essentially true. No one is fighting anybody and the only people who are really playing the new sov game have no interest in actually playing it because they're the ones who keep going on about giving no ***** about sov.

They fly around generating timers, then the times get defended by those who give a **** about sov while those who don't give a **** about sov go haha, made you undock!
Billy Bojangle
Doomheim
#103 - 2015-08-03 23:35:34 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Few people are asking for a rollback, most are just asking for action to be taken to make this system actually work.

There's a whole lot of wiggle room there. I have not heard anyone but Gallowmere Rorschach articulate that the system would be OK if not for ceptors/garmur as they stand.

Lucas Kell wrote:

And how is the old system more stale? We used to have fights most of the time.

Are you seriously comparing the better part of a decade to a couple months time? Also, what the hell was INIT. doing dunking NC. like that? Surely they were told that nofights is the current buzzword.

Lucas Kell wrote:

Now, even the russian blocks have called a cease fire to their unending war. Nobody wants a serious fight with anybody, and the only people bothering to play with the new sov system would rather run away than actually fight for it because even they don't want the sov.

The russians are over-extended, it's not really surprising they're calling off hostilities to protect the motherland. If nobody wanted sov, we'd see blocs massively abandoning their sov. Or do you mean to tell me that everyone is just nostalgic?

Lucas Kell wrote:

If you legitimately think this system is working and you're not just thinking "grr goons" then there's no helping you.

"Working," is a loaded term. Fozzie wanted a more dispersed null and he didn't get it, yet. Is that a signal that it won't ever work, maybe, but after just a month in the oven I'd let it bake a while. You still have your space and apparently it's not worth anything no matter how you take or defend it, so what do you care?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#104 - 2015-08-04 03:57:44 UTC
Billy Bojangle wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:

Now, even the russian blocks have called a cease fire to their unending war. Nobody wants a serious fight with anybody, and the only people bothering to play with the new sov system would rather run away than actually fight for it because even they don't want the sov.

The russians are over-extended, it's not really surprising they're calling off hostilities to protect the motherland. If nobody wanted sov, we'd see blocs massively abandoning their sov. Or do you mean to tell me that everyone is just nostalgic?

More blue lists.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#105 - 2015-08-04 06:46:47 UTC
Billy Bojangle wrote:
There's a whole lot of wiggle room there. I have not heard anyone but Gallowmere Rorschach articulate that the system would be OK if not for ceptors/garmur as they stand.
Read better. There's loads of suggestions on improving this system so it works.

Billy Bojangle wrote:
Are you seriously comparing the better part of a decade to a couple months time? Also, what the hell was INIT. doing dunking NC. like that? Surely they were told that nofights is the current buzzword.
No, I'm saying that right up until they strated rolling out pieces of fozziesov we had decent battles frequently. And sure, there weill always be a few people still going for fights, but overall the system isn't generating them.

Billy Bojangle wrote:
The russians are over-extended, it's not really surprising they're calling off hostilities to protect the motherland. If nobody wanted sov, we'd see blocs massively abandoning their sov. Or do you mean to tell me that everyone is just nostalgic?
Whatever reason you want to put on it, the new system has made one of the oldest still running feuds end. It's not about them abandoning sov, it's about them stopping their fights. The new system has removed conflict.

Billy Bojangle wrote:
"Working," is a loaded term. Fozzie wanted a more dispersed null and he didn't get it, yet. Is that a signal that it won't ever work, maybe, but after just a month in the oven I'd let it bake a while. You still have your space and apparently it's not worth anything no matter how you take or defend it, so what do you care?
Yes, it's signal that it won't work because we've already been using it and can see the glaring flaws, hence the masses of posts from a whole variety of people with suggestions on how to make it so it does work. For the most part what it bouils down to is making sure that to contest sov you actually have to want the sov and commit a meaningful amount of resources to it. That gives you something to actually fight for. Having it like it is now where you just throw disposable ships at it will never promote actual conflict, no matter how long it bakes.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Anthar Thebess
#106 - 2015-08-04 08:09:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
For me the problem in current sov , is that it works in the base concepts:
- vast areas of space hard to defend/ easy to contest by small groups
- more time needed to maintain space
- people need to live , and operate in space they own to maintain it

but thats it.
There is one important thing missing :
- fights - this sov should encourage fights , and it is not doing this.

Currently base content generator are tower fights , or when the constellation you are contesting can be locked down by guarding 1 gate

In the space that i live in , no new groups are contesting space, because this regions ( not 1 region, but multiple ones) are so far from nearest lowsec connection that no one new even thinks about doing something there.
(create new gate connections ?)

Sorry CCP , but if i would like to chase some frigates, and orbit some bacons , while watching TV, i would join FW .

I know that PVP content is made by players, we decide if we want to play or not - and this is main problem, new sov don't encourages 2 groups to fight.

There is no easy fix to this situation, especially that you can "meta game" new sov so easy.
(for example)
Enemy brings full fleet to "entosis" the station , oh well we bring 2 people , and put a tower that have 500 ewar frigates - and we brake each cycle making all entosis pilots cry.

CCP WE NEED CONTENT GENERATORS.

Things that force 2 groups to fight and not evade one each other.

I was against moon mining in current form, but boost usage of r16/r32 or maybe even r8.
If sov will not generate fights ( and in current form it will not) at least fights over towers will keep people playing this game.
Icycle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#107 - 2015-08-04 09:33:24 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
For me the problem in current sov , is that it works in the base concepts:
- vast areas of space hard to defend/ easy to contest by small groups
- more time needed to maintain space
- people need to live , and operate in space they own to maintain it

but thats it.
There is one important thing missing :
- fights - this sov should encourage fights , and it is not doing this.

Currently base content generator are tower fights , or when the constellation you are contesting can be locked down by guarding 1 gate

In the space that i live in , no new groups are contesting space, because this regions ( not 1 region, but multiple ones) are so far from nearest lowsec connection that no one new even thinks about doing something there.
(create new gate connections ?)

Sorry CCP , but if i would like to chase some frigates, and orbit some bacons , while watching TV, i would join FW .

I know that PVP content is made by players, we decide if we want to play or not - and this is main problem, new sov don't encourages 2 groups to fight.

There is no easy fix to this situation, especially that you can "meta game" new sov so easy.
(for example)
Enemy brings full fleet to "entosis" the station , oh well we bring 2 people , and put a tower that have 500 ewar frigates - and we brake each cycle making all entosis pilots cry.

CCP WE NEED CONTENT GENERATORS.

Things that force 2 groups to fight and not evade one each other.

I was against moon mining in current form, but boost usage of r16/r32 or maybe even r8.
If sov will not generate fights ( and in current form it will not) at least fights over towers will keep people playing this game.



if you want content its easy. Deploy a pos on enemy system. Attack sov or station on capital region of your enemy.
Bubble their stations, hell camp them. It should be more than enough if they want to fight you. If they dont want, then nothing in the world will make them. Its very easy to find content. you just got to look for it and put a bit of effort.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#108 - 2015-08-04 09:42:02 UTC
Icycle wrote:
It should be more than enough if they want to fight you. If they dont want, then nothing in the world will make them.
That's pretty much the point. The new system should be encouraging fighting. If you don't want to fight you should have no input in the system whatsoever. The problem is that it's now far too easy for people who don't want to fight to troll. The commitment required to attack space should be drastically increased.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#109 - 2015-08-04 09:42:37 UTC
Timers lead to fights, thus: more timers lead to more fights.

As can be seen, fozziesov leads to many timers, this means it should lead to even more fights!


Just today I had an amazing fight... against wormholers. ncdot, pl and moa showed up but they ran away in their interdiction nullified (tengus, tengus, interceptors) after seeing our blob. Not sure why though, they could've generated so many timers (and therefore fights) but I think the time was wrong and our structures were all invulnerable to the sovlaser

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Anthar Thebess
#110 - 2015-08-04 10:26:30 UTC
Icycle wrote:


if you want content its easy. Deploy a pos on enemy system. Attack sov or station on capital region of your enemy.
Bubble their stations, hell camp them. It should be more than enough if they want to fight you. If they dont want, then nothing in the world will make them. Its very easy to find content. you just got to look for it and put a bit of effort.


I don't say you are wrong , or that new sov is totally bad - i only state that it current eve universe it lack good reasons to fight.
Maybe we need to wait , and see how new sov map will become .
I am sitting on the border , i have enemies in 3 directions ( "old sov groups").
No one cares much about contesting systems , big fights happen only when someone contest some "staging" , then groups are camping entry gates to constellation or a system - and i LOVE IT.

But this not happen often, most of the timers and fights we get is when some r64 moon needs to be hit or defended - and this is big fight - so 150 vs 150 , something that i and many players like, something that makes null different from FW.

This is good healthy nullsec , 300 man local is not a 1.5k blob from old days.
Even 50 vs 50 is nice , and i think that CCP need to focus on creating this kind of engagements , and currently only reason i see for this med scale fights are to happen are tower timers.

I hate this idea , if someone have better , then put it to CCP - but by boosting r16/r32 usage we can get this kind of fights.

This boost of r16 and r32 don't even need to be transferred to isk income, but to usefulness of the minerals mined in every day player operation.





Icycle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#111 - 2015-08-04 10:43:23 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Icycle wrote:
It should be more than enough if they want to fight you. If they dont want, then nothing in the world will make them.
That's pretty much the point. The new system should be encouraging fighting. If you don't want to fight you should have no input in the system whatsoever. The problem is that it's now far too easy for people who don't want to fight to troll. The commitment required to attack space should be drastically increased.



In the old system you fought if you really wanted to as well. You could disingage any time and jump out just like in the old system. Why should you not be allowed to disingage.
You say its too easy. You try and do this vs a 50000 coalition for a change. The killboard is full of failed attempts. Every night we lose a few doing this. Its not one sided as you make it up to be at all. Its that hard that so far we have had a hard time to destroy another TCU or IHUB. So its not as easy as you make it up to be otherwise we would have gotten more already.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#112 - 2015-08-04 10:52:12 UTC
Icycle wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Icycle wrote:
It should be more than enough if they want to fight you. If they dont want, then nothing in the world will make them.
That's pretty much the point. The new system should be encouraging fighting. If you don't want to fight you should have no input in the system whatsoever. The problem is that it's now far too easy for people who don't want to fight to troll. The commitment required to attack space should be drastically increased.



In the old system you fought if you really wanted to as well. You could disingage any time and jump out just like in the old system. Why should you not be allowed to disingage.
You say its too easy. You try and do this vs a 50000 coalition for a change. The killboard is full of failed attempts. Every night we lose a few doing this. Its not one sided as you make it up to be at all. Its that hard that so far we have had a hard time to destroy another TCU or IHUB. So its not as easy as you make it up to be otherwise we would have gotten more already.

Go attack renters in the east.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Icycle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#113 - 2015-08-04 10:57:10 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Icycle wrote:


if you want content its easy. Deploy a pos on enemy system. Attack sov or station on capital region of your enemy.
Bubble their stations, hell camp them. It should be more than enough if they want to fight you. If they dont want, then nothing in the world will make them. Its very easy to find content. you just got to look for it and put a bit of effort.


I don't say you are wrong , or that new sov is totally bad - i only state that it current eve universe it lack good reasons to fight.
Maybe we need to wait , and see how new sov map will become .
I am sitting on the border , i have enemies in 3 directions ( "old sov groups").
No one cares much about contesting systems , big fights happen only when someone contest some "staging" , then groups are camping entry gates to constellation or a system - and i LOVE IT.

But this not happen often, most of the timers and fights we get is when some r64 moon needs to be hit or defended - and this is big fight - so 150 vs 150 , something that i and many players like, something that makes null different from FW.

This is good healthy nullsec , 300 man local is not a 1.5k blob from old days.
Even 50 vs 50 is nice , and i think that CCP need to focus on creating this kind of engagements , and currently only reason i see for this med scale fights are to happen are tower timers.

I hate this idea , if someone have better , then put it to CCP - but by boosting r16/r32 usage we can get this kind of fights.

This boost of r16 and r32 don't even need to be transferred to isk income, but to usefulness of the minerals mined in every day player operation.


Every time we entosis something we have probably about 20 people and they come to us with 100+ in less than 40 minutes. And if comes out of reinforcement, they litterally bring everything =), you name it, its there! So to me thats healthy in numbers.
r16 and r32 are always an issue. The problem is that the big entities wont let you keep any that are worth. So you got to fight for them. Sorry to be so blunt but .. Thats not a game problem but more of an alliance problem not having secured the resources to wage war. I know its a harsh truth to accept, trust me cos I have been there so many times Evil. You will be outnumbered and with no srp. Althought we have some SRP atm, the reality is that only covers certain circubstances. So the majority comes out of what I make and not SRP.
Kiandoshia
Likely Suspects
RAZOR Alliance
#114 - 2015-08-04 10:59:50 UTC
Icycle wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Icycle wrote:


if you want content its easy. Deploy a pos on enemy system. Attack sov or station on capital region of your enemy.
Bubble their stations, hell camp them. It should be more than enough if they want to fight you. If they dont want, then nothing in the world will make them. Its very easy to find content. you just got to look for it and put a bit of effort.


I don't say you are wrong , or that new sov is totally bad - i only state that it current eve universe it lack good reasons to fight.
Maybe we need to wait , and see how new sov map will become .
I am sitting on the border , i have enemies in 3 directions ( "old sov groups").
No one cares much about contesting systems , big fights happen only when someone contest some "staging" , then groups are camping entry gates to constellation or a system - and i LOVE IT.

But this not happen often, most of the timers and fights we get is when some r64 moon needs to be hit or defended - and this is big fight - so 150 vs 150 , something that i and many players like, something that makes null different from FW.

This is good healthy nullsec , 300 man local is not a 1.5k blob from old days.
Even 50 vs 50 is nice , and i think that CCP need to focus on creating this kind of engagements , and currently only reason i see for this med scale fights are to happen are tower timers.

I hate this idea , if someone have better , then put it to CCP - but by boosting r16/r32 usage we can get this kind of fights.

This boost of r16 and r32 don't even need to be transferred to isk income, but to usefulness of the minerals mined in every day player operation.


Every time we entosis something we have probably about 20 people and they come to us with 100+ in less than 40 minutes. And if comes out of reinforcement, they litterally bring everything =), you name it, its there! So to me thats healthy in numbers.
r16 and r32 are always an issue. The problem is that the big entities wont let you keep any that are worth. So you got to fight for them. Sorry to be so blunt but .. Thats not a game problem but more of an alliance problem not having secured the resources to wage war. I know its a harsh truth to accept, trust me cos I have been there so many times Evil. You will be outnumbered and with no srp. Althought we have some SRP atm, the reality is that only covers certain circubstances. So the majority comes out of what I make and not SRP.


If sov null people had to pay the majority of it themselves, they wouldn't fly anything. If sov null alliances didn't have SRP, they'd cease to exist =p
Icycle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2015-08-04 11:04:54 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Icycle wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Icycle wrote:
It should be more than enough if they want to fight you. If they dont want, then nothing in the world will make them.
That's pretty much the point. The new system should be encouraging fighting. If you don't want to fight you should have no input in the system whatsoever. The problem is that it's now far too easy for people who don't want to fight to troll. The commitment required to attack space should be drastically increased.



In the old system you fought if you really wanted to as well. You could disingage any time and jump out just like in the old system. Why should you not be allowed to disingage.
You say its too easy. You try and do this vs a 50000 coalition for a change. The killboard is full of failed attempts. Every night we lose a few doing this. Its not one sided as you make it up to be at all. Its that hard that so far we have had a hard time to destroy another TCU or IHUB. So its not as easy as you make it up to be otherwise we would have gotten more already.

Go attack renters in the east.


But I like to have fun with you, not renters. CFC is my enemy, not a poor renter thats been sucked in to pay you. That does not mean that renters may get a bit of a slap every once in a while thought Blink
The truth been said I get joy from fighting out numbered and still making decent kills. If not, we would have joined another blobbing community already.
Icycle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#116 - 2015-08-04 11:12:59 UTC
Kiandoshia wrote:
Icycle wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Icycle wrote:


if you want content its easy. Deploy a pos on enemy system. Attack sov or station on capital region of your enemy.
Bubble their stations, hell camp them. It should be more than enough if they want to fight you. If they dont want, then nothing in the world will make them. Its very easy to find content. you just got to look for it and put a bit of effort.


I don't say you are wrong , or that new sov is totally bad - i only state that it current eve universe it lack good reasons to fight.
Maybe we need to wait , and see how new sov map will become .
I am sitting on the border , i have enemies in 3 directions ( "old sov groups").
No one cares much about contesting systems , big fights happen only when someone contest some "staging" , then groups are camping entry gates to constellation or a system - and i LOVE IT.

But this not happen often, most of the timers and fights we get is when some r64 moon needs to be hit or defended - and this is big fight - so 150 vs 150 , something that i and many players like, something that makes null different from FW.

This is good healthy nullsec , 300 man local is not a 1.5k blob from old days.
Even 50 vs 50 is nice , and i think that CCP need to focus on creating this kind of engagements , and currently only reason i see for this med scale fights are to happen are tower timers.

I hate this idea , if someone have better , then put it to CCP - but by boosting r16/r32 usage we can get this kind of fights.

This boost of r16 and r32 don't even need to be transferred to isk income, but to usefulness of the minerals mined in every day player operation.


Every time we entosis something we have probably about 20 people and they come to us with 100+ in less than 40 minutes. And if comes out of reinforcement, they litterally bring everything =), you name it, its there! So to me thats healthy in numbers.
r16 and r32 are always an issue. The problem is that the big entities wont let you keep any that are worth. So you got to fight for them. Sorry to be so blunt but .. Thats not a game problem but more of an alliance problem not having secured the resources to wage war. I know its a harsh truth to accept, trust me cos I have been there so many times Evil. You will be outnumbered and with no srp. Althought we have some SRP atm, the reality is that only covers certain circubstances. So the majority comes out of what I make and not SRP.


If sov null people had to pay the majority of it themselves, they wouldn't fly anything. If sov null alliances didn't have SRP, they'd cease to exist =p


Sorry thats not true. Eve has long history of people that have began without SRP and made it big. They have made it only their will, hard work, skills and numbers. The trick in this game is to strike this in balance against your enemy. Fail to do so and you wont get any where. Its a harsh truth but eve is cut throat. I can agree r16 "may" need a small buff but thats about it. But the buff is so small that its not a game changer by any means.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#117 - 2015-08-04 11:17:03 UTC
Icycle wrote:
The truth been said I get joy from fighting out numbered and still making decent kills. If not, we would have joined another blobbing community already.

Considering what happened the last time your group was in one...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#118 - 2015-08-04 11:30:28 UTC
Icycle wrote:
In the old system you fought if you really wanted to as well. You could disingage any time and jump out just like in the old system. Why should you not be allowed to disingage.
You say its too easy. You try and do this vs a 50000 coalition for a change. The killboard is full of failed attempts. Every night we lose a few doing this. Its not one sided as you make it up to be at all. Its that hard that so far we have had a hard time to destroy another TCU or IHUB. So its not as easy as you make it up to be otherwise we would have gotten more already.
Disengaging is fine, I have no problem with people being able to choose not to fight. But consider the old system. You send 1 frigate to shoot an SBU for 4 hours, then give up. Defenders need to do nothing as you didn't bring a sizable enough force to realistically take sov. Now, you send one frigate to mine a structure for 15-45 minutes and the defenders have to respond. With that happening constantly it means defenders are spending most of their time chasing around frigates from groups who have no intention of actually contesting sov.

Now if you had to commit a couple of battleships or a capital ship, and could still disengage if you chose to, I'd consider that a much more reasonable system.

And of course you lose a few, they are disposable ships. I lose a few gank ships to AGs too. They are consumables.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Anthar Thebess
#119 - 2015-08-04 11:33:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
SRP, what is that? Lol
Not having SRP is one of the fun things, as you have to do some effort.

For me entosis should be a cruiser only module.
Fitted T1 cruiser cost less than T2 interceptor , it also require less skills - most important part - it is not nullified.
Icycle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#120 - 2015-08-04 11:42:26 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Icycle wrote:
The truth been said I get joy from fighting out numbered and still making decent kills. If not, we would have joined another blobbing community already.

Considering what happened the last time your group was in one...


we did it I think was Friday...not sure of the day. You guys came with a scimitar + basi + other ships. It was 80+. You guys warped to us. We engaged and killed two but we could not make anymore damage . We retreated cos it was too many and began to hunt all your struglers. Got and scimi and some others. Then there was a domi fleet with caps which we started to pick off the straglers. Got 2 domies and other ships. Cap jumped out. We continued picking a few smaller ships. Eventually you guys warped to a pos and stayed there.