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Share your experiences with Fozziesov!

First post First post
Author
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#821 - 2015-08-18 18:09:49 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
active PvP pilots / # of systems would do. How many xed up for the last strat op?
Ask a diplo, I'm a line member. I neither know nor care for participation statistics. Either way it's still irrelevant as we would have lost systems if they had been too hard to defend with our numbers.

Sonya Corvinus wrote:
If it wasn't too hard (ie, already had PvP pilots in a system that is being lasered, you wouldn't be complaining in this thread. That's kinda the point.
Then your comprehension skills need work. Not only have I not once stated it's too hard, I've even stated the opposite multiple times. The reason I have an issue with it is it's boring. It's like if they made it so you have to do a captcha every time you jump between systems. Captchas aren't hard, but they would be insanely boring as a game mechanic.

Sonya Corvinus wrote:
It's my opinion that sov null is the safest and easiest way to earn ISK in the game ATM, so anything that moves us in the direction of nudging alliances to shrink is a positive.
Well you're wrong. Incusrions hold that one in the way of straight money making mechanics by a huge margin. I make most of my isk trading in highsec, far more lucrative than any nullsec activity could dream of being. Level 5s and faction warfare both beat nullsec income too and are relatively low risk.

On top of which, fozziesov encourages alliances to grow, not shrink. The more bodies you have in the alliance the more populated and more defended your systems become. You know how the new mechanics work, right?

Sonya Corvinus wrote:
The only challenging places left to live are LS and WHs. Anything that tries to make HS or null more difficult is a positive.
Lowsec is less challenging that nullsec. You can dock everywhere without being locked out of a station and if someone illegally engages you on a gate or a station you get NPC guns helping you out. The only reason nullsec is "safe" is because we mitigate risk. Any section of space I live in I would be just as safe as I would take steps to mitigate the risk. If I lived in lowsec I would be marginally safer than I am in nullsec, guaranteed.

Sonya Corvinus wrote:
You would have fights in current sov if you un-blue a few people. That's kinda the point.
Well I'm not changing the way I play, so nullsec can stagnate, die and take the game with it. These mechanics while boring are easier to ignore for the most part so we'll just make more non-invasion pacts and continue as is until CCP provides what they promised (an entertaining sov system) or until nullsec becomes such a wreck it gets removed or kills the game.

Like I said before though, CCP have made it pretty clear they agree that the current system doesn't do what it was supposed to which is why I'll be shocked if they don't put in many of the changes we've been suggesting anyway.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Seth Kanan
Exotic Dancers Union
SONS of BANE
#822 - 2015-08-18 18:15:49 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Seth Kanan wrote:
So far we got a lot of good fights with the new mechanics and there are more to come. It's sad to see that some represantitves of the big coalitions are seeding so many lies. That is poor. The new mechanics are great. CCPs move towards this gameplay is visionary.
Nullsec has an approximate 11% decrease in kills between this month and last month, and a 16% decrease on June. Compared to last year this August is 11% down there too. Consider that there will also be no more big capital fights that end up in international non-gaming news sites, and it's hard to see how this is a good thing. I'm Imperium though so obviously I'm lying just to keep on making all that isk that I make trading in highsec.



It seems you took two numbers from a statistic and made an argument out of it. A decrease in kills does not say anything about the mechanics or the people experiencing the new sovsystem. The decrease could have some very different reasons. Secondly there will be big capital fights. People can always escalate with capitals and they will. Your picture of the situation is one-sided and i call that lying. The new system is revolutionary and it will draw more people to this game in the long term. CCP is doing the right thing and lets people participate in sovwarfare. That is how you make a game fit for another decade.
Salvos Rhoska
#823 - 2015-08-18 18:17:46 UTC

Lucas Kell wrote:
clipped for space.

Some good and valid arguments there.
I appreciate your candour.

Sweet works better than sour, you know, for catching flies.

Perhaps instead of coming across as antagonistic (which is expected and anticipated anyways), try instead approaching from ground of mutual interest towards others, as we have.

Most of your opponents want the same thing as you do.

See what I mean?

They may be your opponents ingame, but here, they want a solution to both your problems as much as you do.

Use that. Align with them, towards that.

This whole shitstorm doesnt have to be "us vs them", when both want the same.

"(not that the opinions of a 2 year old NPC player mean much)"
Ouch!
Fair enough, considering I also called your talking head/forum rep position.
I can take as good as I give, thats ok.
Faenir Antollare
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#824 - 2015-08-18 18:22:45 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Lucas Kell wrote:
clipped for space.

Some good and valid arguments there.
I appreciate your candour.

Sweet works better than sour, you know, for catching flies.

Perhaps instead of coming across as antagonistic (which is expected and anticipated anyways), try instead approaching from ground of mutual interest towards others, as we have.

Most of your opponents want the same thing as you do.

See what I mean?

They may be your opponents ingame, but here, they want a solution to both your problems as much as you do.

Use that. Align with them, towards that.

This whole shitstorm doesnt have to be "us vs them", when both want the same.

"(not that the opinions of a 2 year old NPC player mean much)"
Ouch!
Fair enough, considering I also called your talking head/forum rep position.
I can take as good as I give, thats ok.


Did you not recently concede on all points ?

RiP BooBoo 26/7/1971 - 23/7/2014 My Lady My Love My Life My Wife

Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#825 - 2015-08-18 18:29:34 UTC
at the very least, restricting the sov dildos to command ships or something, would help fix some issues.

But overall its just un-fun. I think we want raw destruction to determine sov ownership, not some strange timer minigame

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP

Salvos Rhoska
#826 - 2015-08-18 18:30:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Faenir Antollare wrote:


Did you not recently concede on all points ?


Yes, but in another entirely unrelated thread (the one about Russians rioting).

You must be more drunk than I am!
*cheers!*

Lucas Kell is a hairs width from a position the majority could agree with.
Its soooo close to reaching a principle concensus and driving towards a mutual goal, together.
The problem here, is that the actual issue is superceded and obfuscated by politics and antagonism.

Instead of working towards a mutual solution, discussion invariably falls into grrGoons vs Others paradigm, and the same old thread destruction and pattern weve all seen time and time again.

Though that may be the real situation ingame, its not conducive to discussion on real solutions FOR the game, which invariably require amicable feedback from both parties.

Know what I mean?
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#827 - 2015-08-18 18:31:09 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:

stuff


You say it's boring because you have to fly around and chase people away constantly. If there were already active pilots in each system, you wouldn't have that boredom. That's kinda the point here.

If you think LS is easier to live in than sov null, you've apparently never lived there.

You aren't going to magically get a few thousand new accounts, so logic tells us that you need to shrink. You admitting you need more people under fozziesov is a good first step, though.

More people or less systems = the same thing. More alliances/corps in null instead of blue-ing everyone around you would drive content.

For the 17th time, you are causing stagnation. HTFU, change with the game or stop complaining.
Faenir Antollare
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#828 - 2015-08-18 18:39:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Faenir Antollare
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Faenir Antollare wrote:


Did you not recently concede on all points ?


Yes, but in another entirely unrelated thread (the one about Russians rioting).

You must be more drunk than I am!
*cheers!*



Different titles maybe yet strikingly similar subject certainly.



Edit.. adding stuff after original comment smacks of desperation to me and is very uncool, ****** tactics from a ****** poster.

RiP BooBoo 26/7/1971 - 23/7/2014 My Lady My Love My Life My Wife

Salvos Rhoska
#829 - 2015-08-18 18:55:10 UTC
Faenir Antollare wrote:

Different titles maybe yet strikingly similar subject certainly.

Quite different titles, subjects, and even moreso on my part as to the excellent post I conceeded to, in all its specific points.

This is a lame attempt at generalisation, when you yourself forgot which thread you are talking about.
Happens to me too, sometimes I get confused who said what and where, but I always own up to it.
Harry Saq
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#830 - 2015-08-18 18:59:17 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:

stuff


You say it's boring because you have to fly around and chase people away constantly. If there were already active pilots in each system, you wouldn't have that boredom. That's kinda the point here.

If you think LS is easier to live in than sov null, you've apparently never lived there.

You aren't going to magically get a few thousand new accounts, so logic tells us that you need to shrink. You admitting you need more people under fozziesov is a good first step, though.

More people or less systems = the same thing. More alliances/corps in null instead of blue-ing everyone around you would drive content.

For the 17th time, you are causing stagnation. HTFU, change with the game or stop complaining.

So much this^^
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#831 - 2015-08-18 19:06:10 UTC
Seth Kanan wrote:
It seems you took two numbers from a statistic and made an argument out of it. A decrease in kills does not say anything about the mechanics or the people experiencing the new sovsystem. The decrease could have some very different reasons. Secondly there will be big capital fights. People can always escalate with capitals and they will. Your picture of the situation is one-sided and i call that lying. The new system is revolutionary and it will draw more people to this game in the long term. CCP is doing the right thing and lets people participate in sovwarfare. That is how you make a game fit for another decade.
The stats are the stats. If the system promoted more fighting then they would be up. They aren't.

And while capital escalations might happen, they will be rare. None of the big groups want to play around with the dull mechanics enough to invade anyone and they certainly don't want to leave their systems with reduced defense so nullified frigates can come throw all of the timers, so you're unlikely to see many fights between two big groups escalating very far except for staged fights.

And can people really participate in sov warfare? Most small groups will be crushed by the bigger groups near them once the dust settles. Also, I don't know of many people that would say "a game where you can click a button then fly around a structure for 15 - 45 minutes? Count me in!"

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#832 - 2015-08-18 19:13:22 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Perhaps instead of coming across as antagonistic (which is expected and anticipated anyways), try instead approaching from ground of mutual interest towards others, as we have.
I don;t need to. It's clear that a vast number of players have issues with the system, it's also clear that people within CCP have similar worries about it. Fixes to the system are a matter of time, nothing more.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Most of your opponents want the same thing as you do.
Lol, no they don't. They want goons dead because "grr gons hat gons". My opinion would be the same regardless of my alliance affiliation, yt that's all this is seen as. I dislike the system and I'm Imperium therefore the system must be a good thing. Most of these people probably haven't tried the new system.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Lucas Kell is a hairs width from a position the majority could agree with.
Its soooo close to reaching a principle concensus and driving towards a mutual goal, together.
The problem here, is that the actual issue is superceded and obfuscated by politics and antagonism.
Read my blog. Full opinion on what should change and why right there. Judging by what I've seen on other blogs and reddit, it's a pretty similar set of changes to most. These forums tend to be more of a place for people to argue endlessly in circles which I enjoy as much as the next guy, but sometimes points do need to be made.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#833 - 2015-08-18 19:14:06 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Seth Kanan wrote:
It seems you took two numbers from a statistic and made an argument out of it. A decrease in kills does not say anything about the mechanics or the people experiencing the new sovsystem. The decrease could have some very different reasons. Secondly there will be big capital fights. People can always escalate with capitals and they will. Your picture of the situation is one-sided and i call that lying. The new system is revolutionary and it will draw more people to this game in the long term. CCP is doing the right thing and lets people participate in sovwarfare. That is how you make a game fit for another decade.
The stats are the stats. If the system promoted more fighting then they would be up. They aren't.

And while capital escalations might happen, they will be rare. None of the big groups want to play around with the dull mechanics enough to invade anyone and they certainly don't want to leave their systems with reduced defense so nullified frigates can come throw all of the timers, so you're unlikely to see many fights between two big groups escalating very far except for staged fights.

And can people really participate in sov warfare? Most small groups will be crushed by the bigger groups near them once the dust settles. Also, I don't know of many people that would say "a game where you can click a button then fly around a structure for 15 - 45 minutes? Count me in!"



Tisk Tisk, my dear Lucas Kell,. Your forum fu is weak.

For were you in top form, you would have pointed out that in this case what you believe is based on FACTS and EVIDENCE where as what your opponent believes is based on VAPOR and WISHFUL THINKING ie "well, one day in the future people will escalate to caps therefore the new sov system is fine".

You must return to the Mountain of General Discussion Wisdom and meditate to replenish your powers! It is then that you can come back to vanquish your foes, and by "vanquish" i mean keep posting till they die of old age...

*Jenn disappears in a puff of forum ninja smoke*

Twisted
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#834 - 2015-08-18 19:20:23 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
You say it's boring because you have to fly around and chase people away constantly. If there were already active pilots in each system, you wouldn't have that boredom. That's kinda the point here.
Again, comprehension. I'll say it reaaaal simple.

Even if you are in already living in a system, having to fly to a structure to chase away an evasion fit disposable frigate is boring.

Sonya Corvinus wrote:
If you think LS is easier to live in than sov null, you've apparently never lived there.
Mechanically it is. Station are NPC owned, you have station and gate guns helping you out if engaged there and other than that it's exactly the same as nullsec. Objectively it's safer than nullsec. It's not my fault if you don't take the same level or precautions as a null player.

Sonya Corvinus wrote:
You aren't going to magically get a few thousand new accounts, so logic tells us that you need to shrink. You admitting you need more people under fozziesov is a good first step, though.
We don't need more accounts, we just recruit people and pull in renters.

Sonya Corvinus wrote:
More people or less systems = the same thing. More alliances/corps in null instead of blue-ing everyone around you would drive content.
Except we'll just blue people or absorb them as renters and if they refuse we'll evict them, because that's the most optimal strategy for avoiding terrible sov mechanics. They might even keep their nametag on the space if we can't be bothered to structure mine it, but they won't get to use their space.

Sonya Corvinus wrote:
For the 17th time, you are causing stagnation. HTFU, change with the game or stop complaining.
I agree, but we're not going to change our playstyle any more than anyone else is going to change theirs. CCP were supposed to put in a mechanic that encourages people to CHOOSE to fight each other. What they released is an enormous pile of **** and there's no way we'll choose to use that to fight each other. Even the russians have cancelled their war.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#835 - 2015-08-18 19:29:02 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:

Even if you are in already living in a system, having to fly to a structure to chase away an evasion fit disposable frigate is boring.


And again, you chose to live there. If you find it boring to have to defend a system you chose to live in, then don't live in a system where you have to defend structures.

Rat in a PvP fit and jump over when a grey/red shows up. It isn't difficult.

Quote:
Mechanically it is. Station are NPC owned, you have station and gate guns helping you out if engaged there and other than that it's exactly the same as nullsec. Objectively it's safer than nullsec. It's not my fault if you don't take the same level or precautions as a null player.


Intel channels a few dozen systems out trump any docking mechanics. You know this as well as I do.

Quote:

Except we'll just blue people or absorb them as renters and if they refuse we'll evict them, because that's the most optimal strategy for avoiding terrible sov mechanics. They might even keep their nametag on the space if we can't be bothered to structure mine it, but they won't get to use their space.


Again, thanks for admitting setting everyone to blue is part of the problem. Stop bearing it up and set some people to red. How many times do you need to be told this?

Quote:

I agree, but we're not going to change our playstyle any more than anyone else is going to change theirs. CCP were supposed to put in a mechanic that encourages people to CHOOSE to fight each other. What they released is an enormous pile of **** and there's no way we'll choose to use that to fight each other. Even the russians have cancelled their war.


Why exactly aren't you going to change your playstyle? Stop trying to force the game to change just because you are too lazy to adapt.

"I want to live in the safest part of space with none of the effort that comes from defending where I chose to live" --Lucas Kell, using logic, apparently
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#836 - 2015-08-18 19:42:12 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
And again, you chose to live there. If you find it boring to have to defend a system you chose to live in, then don't live in a system where you have to defend structures.
Lol? So if CCP make boring mechanics, rather than say "hey, CCP your mechanics are boring", we should just move out and go do something else? In what reality is feedback bad?

Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Intel channels a few dozen systems out trump any docking mechanics. You know this as well as I do.
Which we put in place. Nothing stops you having intel channels. What you're saying is that we should be punished because we had the forethought to mitigate the risk of living in space with no restrictions on shooting each other. Mechanically, lowsec is safer. That's just the way it is mate.

Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Again, thanks for admitting setting everyone to blue is part of the problem. Stop bearing it up and set some people to red. How many times do you need to be told this?
No problem. I have no issues with stating that part of the problem is that we are all blue. That's not going to change though. We're not going to fake content into the game by splitting from our friends and having little battles just because CCP can't design entertaining mechanics that we'd choose over collaboration.

Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Why exactly aren't you going to change your playstyle? Stop trying to force the game to change just because you are too lazy to adapt.
Because why should I? Why don't you take up highsec mining? Or play fifa instead of EVE? Why should we be forced to play in a way that we don't want to just because you guys get sad when we slap our name on a system. You've already made it clear you prefer lowsec so why does it affect you how we want to play in our section of the game?

If CCP can come up with a compelling reason for us to abandon what we have, great. If they can't, don't expect us to go out of our way to resole their issues for them. We'll happily continue with adding more and more non-invasion pacts to avoid the use of these new mechanics.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#837 - 2015-08-18 19:52:08 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
the same old stuff


For the last time, they are only boring mechanics to your currently playstyle. Adapt. Adjust. That's EVE.

You purposely put channels in place that make life safe and easy. Change it to mix things up. I assume you've never docked and taken a cheaper ship out just to have a challenging fight, instead of stomping anyone who comes by too.

You need to change your playstyle because the current mechanics are enjoyed by other people. You aren't a special snowflake.

A compelling reason to abandon what you have is that you would get fights. You could spend time flying spaceships and shooting people instead of forum-warrior-ing complaining.

And what's the big deal with shooting friends? Its all in good fun. Shoot someone one day, fleet up with them the next. As long as fun is being had, who cares? This IS a game.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#838 - 2015-08-18 19:58:07 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
For the last time, they are only boring mechanics to your currently playstyle. Adapt. Adjust. That's EVE.
No, they are boring mechanics all round. That's why people from all over keep repeating this. Even MOA members have stated that in this thread, the most grr goons of them all. Right here, there's a Triumvirate member with the same issues. Head over to reddit and you can see heaps of people with the exact same issues.

Honestly, I don;t know how you can even suggest it's not boring. It's firing a mining laser at a structure for anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour. Defending is chasing down solo, near-uncatchable ships who can break through gatecamps and defenses with ease. There are even system that have been unclaimed for days where people simply can't be bothered to go and take them.

And mate, I get it. You don't like our playstyle. I do. Get over it. EVE is no more exclusively for you than it is for me. You're suggesting we aren't allowed to give feedback on changes to mechanics that directly affect us. You're wrong. You'll find out just how wrong when CCP make changes based on our feedback.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Salvos Rhoska
#839 - 2015-08-18 20:16:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
@Lucas Kell, Sonya Corvinus, Jenn aSide and other participating members of this honorable panel:

I submit this as evidence for your consideration towards the position Trollceptors are misrepresented in this debate.

What are your opinions and perspectives on this (slightly dated) vid below?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3uTVTBKb_E

Is this not content, fights and EVE at some of its finest?
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#840 - 2015-08-18 20:26:08 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
No, they are boring mechanics all round. That's why people from all over keep repeating this. Even MOA members have stated that in this thread, the most grr goons of them all. Right here, there's a Triumvirate member with the same issues. Head over to reddit and you can see heaps of people with the exact same issues.

Honestly, I don;t know how you can even suggest it's not boring. It's firing a mining laser at a structure for anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour. Defending is chasing down solo, near-uncatchable ships who can break through gatecamps and defenses with ease. There are even system that have been unclaimed for days where people simply can't be bothered to go and take them.

And mate, I get it. You don't like our playstyle. I do. Get over it. EVE is no more exclusively for you than it is for me. You're suggesting we aren't allowed to give feedback on changes to mechanics that directly affect us. You're wrong. You'll find out just how wrong when CCP make changes based on our feedback.


It isn't that I don't like your playstyle. It's that I don't understand why you would choose to live somewhere and not have active PvP-ers in every system you own to defend them. That's what you aren't understanding.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
@Lucas Kell, Sonya Corvinus, Jenn aSide and other participating members of this honorable panel:

What are your opinions and perspectives on this (slightly dated) vid below?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3uTVTBKb_E

Is this not content, fights and EVE at some of its finest?


I saw that a while ago. To me it looks like people who would previously hide behind POS shields/dock up when local isn't blue were forced to try and engage. More content than we had before.