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[news] Vigilant Tyrannos assault on Safizon
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Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#81 - 2015-08-02 14:36:48 UTC
Aeon Amadii wrote:
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
Aeon Amadii wrote:


They're likely incapable of communication save for amongst themselves.



Untrue.

Obviously they are an advanced society. This means they speak the language of math. They are not incapable, they just choose not to.

Except for CONCORD. They seem to be able to communicate with them on some level...


An interesting theory, but still just.

EDIT: I equate Drifter communication to that of a pack animal, honestly... Insect, more like... Fact of the matter is they can't, or won't, communciate with us and that is all that matters in the end. This pacifist, sympathetic approach to them is going to end up causing more fatalities than necessary. Diplomacy does not interact well with primordial, instinctual thinking.



Well, hardly a theory given things like binary.

The word you're looking for is "alien." Now mind you, as far as we know the Drifters, Sleepers, what have you appear to be an offshoot of humanity. But they are far enough advanced and have been separate for such a long time that they are very much like a non-human alien society. The differences are so profound, that understanding even basic aspects of their society are exceedingly difficult.

Now what tends to happen when a society encounters a society that is more technologically advanced?

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."
Ichinumi Tsukaya
Desi Beanz
Pandemic Horde
#82 - 2015-08-02 15:24:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ichinumi Tsukaya
CONCORD is presently a benign growth that cannot be trusted to remain. The secrets they hold would serve any of us well yet they sit on them and say nothing more. It is long past time that steps are taken to force them to pay their dividends.

The Amarr fight on tenaciously, not even counting their losses, while CONCORD do nothing.
Aeon Amadii
#83 - 2015-08-02 15:27:19 UTC
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
Aeon Amadii wrote:
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
Aeon Amadii wrote:


They're likely incapable of communication save for amongst themselves.



Untrue.

Obviously they are an advanced society. This means they speak the language of math. They are not incapable, they just choose not to.

Except for CONCORD. They seem to be able to communicate with them on some level...


An interesting theory, but still just.

EDIT: I equate Drifter communication to that of a pack animal, honestly... Insect, more like... Fact of the matter is they can't, or won't, communciate with us and that is all that matters in the end. This pacifist, sympathetic approach to them is going to end up causing more fatalities than necessary. Diplomacy does not interact well with primordial, instinctual thinking.



Well, hardly a theory given things like binary.

The word you're looking for is "alien." Now mind you, as far as we know the Drifters, Sleepers, what have you appear to be an offshoot of humanity. But they are far enough advanced and have been separate for such a long time that they are very much like a non-human alien society. The differences are so profound, that understanding even basic aspects of their society are exceedingly difficult.

Now what tends to happen when a society encounters a society that is more technologically advanced?


I don't question what ants are thinking, not because I am uninterested but because I simply don't care. You can argue that because the Drifters are more technologically advanced they would have this standpoint in regards to humanity but frankly I think it is quite the opposite. We're capable of communication and diplomacy between one another and if the Drifters are capable of that they have shown, without a shadow of a doubt, that they simply do not care to try. You could even say that I, myself, operate on a very binary basis:

Has the enemy attacked? (True)
Has the enemy made any effort to make peace? (False)

You can say that we are the aggressors and that we overstepped our bounds with the sleeper implants, but they have made absolutely no effort with which to negotiate and diplomacy is not a one-way street. They either stop infringing on empire space, attacking, and collecting bodies, or they don't.

(This character is the Eve version of Aeon Amadi since there is no cross-forum support)

Member of CPM 2
Borascus
#84 - 2015-08-02 15:40:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
Makoto Priano wrote:


I-- what?

Alright. In the first place, this is a bit of a tangent from the thread.

In the second place, reports at the time of the footage's release indicate that it was at least six months old at that time, which would put the latest Tukoss could have been killed at YC116.11.15 or so, but possibly as long as a year before the release.

Considering that the messages from Hilen Tukoss began at YC116.10.24, continuing at YC116.11.04, and then took a strange turn at YC116.11.04, I think it's fairly safe to say that if Tukoss's infomorph did somehow manage to survive the destruction of his body, that it is not free. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the Vigilant Tyrannos method of suborning his access to CONCORD-mediated services required-- well, to be honest, I can't theorize. I just won't be surprised at anything the Tyrannos do with infomorphs, I suppose.

In any case, considering that we haven't so much as seen a member of the Directorate in the better part of a decade, I'm not exactly sure how you're laying this at their feet.

Please. If you're going to engage in conspiracy-mongering, at least try to make it sensible.


It's nice of you to think that I'm trying to lead this down a path of my own choosing. However, please assess the context of the message body and review the quotation in my post.

It was a direct response, not a theory.

The answers to my questions to Verdis deMosays are no.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#85 - 2015-08-02 16:24:03 UTC
Yockerbow wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Ravana 729 wrote:
They may not be here for us at all.


Then they should stop using our frickin' corpses.


Interesting choice to never use the word "Drifter" in your analysis. Your words could equally apply to a large number of capsule pilots, and equivalent statements about capsuleers have been made by many groups (notably the Sisters of EVE).

The Drifters possess technology almost incomprehensibly above ours, and have possibly had it for orders of magnitude more time. Rather than trying to model them in terms of "normal human" groups, it may be more appropriate to apply extreme extrapolations of independent capsuleer motives and actions.


What the screaming fark are capsuleers using our corpses for? And don't give me the trophy crap. That's sick, but this is literally building their bodies out of our remains. What capsuleer group is doing that? They're not? Oh. Well, then I guess I meant DRIFTERS.

Is that enough times for a few sentences? Or when I'm talking about The Drifters should I always say The Drifters and never use pronouns when discussing THE MOTHERFRAKKING DRIFTERS?
Ichinumi Tsukaya
Desi Beanz
Pandemic Horde
#86 - 2015-08-02 16:34:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ichinumi Tsukaya
You bring the stereotypical Gallente approach, Amadii... Always ready to 'civilize' and impose upon more people, no foresight, no understanding. Just zeal, driven by 'righteousness'. This is why the Federation must be destroyed, in due course.

You may be surprised to see that the Empire is still holding its best cards closely. I hope they are at least filling the void with blood and bodies for a good reason. Funayūrei are Jove presently, yet if this keeps up they may increasingly become Amarr and Caldari, from those of us eager to try to save the Empire. Or Minmatar, if these Imperial Navy ships have been crewed by slaves - which leads me to wonder, are you fighting alongside the meat shields of the Empire, my kin?

There must be a reason that CONCORD has yet to comment on this collision course for so long. Are they trying to bring the Empire into a more manageable size... Is this their revenge for Jamyl Sarum attempting to garner favor with us capsule pilots with 'restricted' technologies?
Aeon Amadii
#87 - 2015-08-02 16:40:20 UTC
Ichinumi Tsukaya wrote:
You bring the stereotypical Gallente approach, Amadii... Always ready to 'civilize' and impose upon more people, no foresight, no understanding. Just zeal, driven by 'righteousness'. This is why the Federation must be destroyed, in due course.

You may be surprised to see that the Empire is still holding its best cards closely. I hope they are at least filling the void with blood and bodies for a good reason. Funayūrei are Jove presently, yet if this keeps up they may increasingly become Amarr and Caldari, from those of us eager to try to save the Empire. Or Minmatar if these ships have been crewed by slaves.

There must be a reason that CONCORD has yet to comment on this collision course for so long. Are they trying to bring the Empire into a more manageable size? Is this their revenge for Jamyl Sarum attempting to garner favor with us capsule pilots with 'restricted' technologies?


I'm quick to dismiss racism. I'm an Intaki, and I will be regarded as such and with equal respect that I have given. Until then, I'll assume that the remainder of whatever you had to say was just bigoted trash.

(This character is the Eve version of Aeon Amadi since there is no cross-forum support)

Member of CPM 2
Ichinumi Tsukaya
Desi Beanz
Pandemic Horde
#88 - 2015-08-02 17:05:16 UTC
I hope you haven't misunderstood. I regard you as an Intaki, bringing a stereotypical Gallente approach to this conversation; that said approach has been played out throughout the history of the Federation.
It may be I need to be reminded of what 'racism' is.
The Golden Serpent
A Drunken Squirrels' Conspiracy for Revenge
#89 - 2015-08-02 17:25:16 UTC
Ichinumi Tsukaya wrote:
I hope you haven't misunderstood. I regard you as an Intaki, bringing a stereotypical Gallente approach to this conversation; that said approach has been played out throughout the history of the Federation.
It may be I need to be reminded of what 'racism' is.


I know, they are the biggest know-it-alls. People are just making stuff up about the Drifters based on their political angle.

-:¦:-•:'":•.-:¦:-•* K H A N I D •-:¦:-•:''''*:•-:¦:-
Arrendis
TK Corp
#90 - 2015-08-02 17:41:47 UTC
The Golden Serpent wrote:
People are just making stuff up about the Drifters


Such as?
Aeon Amadii
#91 - 2015-08-02 17:56:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Aeon Amadii
Ichinumi Tsukaya wrote:
I hope you haven't misunderstood. I regard you as an Intaki, bringing a stereotypical Gallente approach to this conversation; that said approach has been played out throughout the history of the Federation.
It may be I need to be reminded of what 'racism' is.


I am a mercenary, I only ever worked with the Federal Marines because they paid me. Beyond that I was born on Intaki, which if you aren't aware is probably the loosest definition of 'Gallente' as one could muster. If your intent is to completely disregard the arguments given because of my bloodline's affiliation with the Federation or because my angle reminds you of the Federation - which itself is entirely nebulous and convoluted, being that it is a Federation - than you're going to have a real hard time in life and you're going to make a lot of enemies.

Who I am, or what you think my 'approach' is has absolutely nothing to do with what I am saying - argue that and I may not pull you writhing, wriggling, and whining from that pod of yours. No 'civilized' or 'righteous' reasonings behind it, guaranteed.

(This character is the Eve version of Aeon Amadi since there is no cross-forum support)

Member of CPM 2
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#92 - 2015-08-02 18:07:08 UTC
We have no means to leverage peace with them. We have yet to score a meaningful victory over them in combat without losing an embarrassing amount of life in the process, anything they want they have the means to take, and we have no idea what it is they want.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Aeon Amadii
#93 - 2015-08-02 18:12:21 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
We have no means to leverage peace with them. We have yet to score a meaningful victory over them in combat without losing an embarrassing amount of life in the process, anything they want they have the means to take, and we have no idea what it is they want.


And it would seem they're not too keen on informing us.

(This character is the Eve version of Aeon Amadi since there is no cross-forum support)

Member of CPM 2
Matar Ronin
#94 - 2015-08-02 18:27:01 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Vigilant Tyrannos and Amarr naval forces are engaging in Safizon on all gates. Currently, the Drifters control grids for two of five.

More news as it unfolds.
Pilot Makoto any verification that the Drifter forces engaged the station with weapons fire or engaged non-military non-capsuleer vessels in the space they invaded?

Sitting by watching the imperial navy, p.i.e., & c.v.a. fight and take heavy loses on one level is good entertainment, but if the Drifters are targeting civilians or facilities with large civilian and sadly slave work forces Drake Ashigaru may not be able to sit on the sidelines much longer.

The enemy of my enemy's civilians is my enemy also.

A line has to be drawn.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#95 - 2015-08-02 19:11:05 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Makoto Priano wrote:
Vigilant Tyrannos and Amarr naval forces are engaging in Safizon on all gates. Currently, the Drifters control grids for two of five.

More news as it unfolds.
Pilot Makoto any verification that the Drifter forces engaged the station with weapons fire or engaged non-military non-capsuleer vessels in the space they invaded?

Sitting by watching the imperial navy, p.i.e., & c.v.a. fight and take heavy loses on one level is good entertainment, but if the Drifters are targeting civilians or facilities with large civilian and sadly slave work forces Drake Ashigaru may not be able to sit on the sidelines much longer.

The enemy of my enemy's civilians is my enemy also.

A line has to be drawn.


As much as ill admit I enjoy seeing their forces pulled to fight the Drifters, I think its time to start worrying about them more so than sitting idly by enjoying the show. I've been hearing from one of my friends back in Eram they have, from what he noticed, been increasing their presence there as of late there. I believe he said he saw five seekers on the Core Complexion station there, and three battleships around the Vullat gate yesterday. It might be time to worry about fighting them there so we don't have to fight them at home. If they in fact did attack their civilians, what's to stop them from attacking ours, if they didn't, what's to say they wont start.
Matar Ronin
#96 - 2015-08-02 20:21:21 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
Makoto Priano wrote:
Vigilant Tyrannos and Amarr naval forces are engaging in Safizon on all gates. Currently, the Drifters control grids for two of five.

More news as it unfolds.
Pilot Makoto any verification that the Drifter forces engaged the station with weapons fire or engaged non-military non-capsuleer vessels in the space they invaded?

Sitting by watching the imperial navy, p.i.e., & c.v.a. fight and take heavy loses on one level is good entertainment, but if the Drifters are targeting civilians or facilities with large civilian and sadly slave work forces Drake Ashigaru may not be able to sit on the sidelines much longer.

The enemy of my enemy's civilians is my enemy also.

A line has to be drawn.


As much as ill admit I enjoy seeing their forces pulled to fight the Drifters, I think its time to start worrying about them more so than sitting idly by enjoying the show. I've been hearing from one of my friends back in Eram they have, from what he noticed, been increasing their presence there as of late there. I believe he said he saw five seekers on the Core Complexion station there, and three battleships around the Vullat gate yesterday. It might be time to worry about fighting them there so we don't have to fight them at home. If they in fact did attack their civilians, what's to stop them from attacking ours, if they didn't, what's to say they wont start.
Indeed I have seen them in systems that do not have Jove Observatories that we can see. My concern level is escalating.


‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2015-08-02 20:26:34 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
.... If they in fact did attack their civilians, what's to stop them from attacking ours, if they didn't, what's to say they wont start.


We have no idea what their rwasoning is but jumping to conclusions and escalating a conflict to other areas without reason would be entirely irresponsible. By all means help the Amarr if you feel you must but do it in the name of Amarr and no-one else until the Drifters attack other regions.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#98 - 2015-08-02 21:07:58 UTC
They've been in Eram since the very beginning, almost like there are ties that cause them to pay attention to that area a little, something called..... site one perhaps?
As for 'They attacked first'. Need I remind people of the Seekers that were slaughtered that DIDN'T EVEN FIRE BACK IN SELF DEFENCE. If that's not attempting diplomacy may I ask what is, when you are so passive as to not even defend yourself. Yet capsuleers continued to kill them despite no Concord bounties and no valuable items. Just for the fun of it.

Finally, why should Concord be involved? Concord are not a force to rule everything, they exist to keep semi peace between the Empires and to manage capsuleers. They are not responsible for taking care of everything in New Eden. Concord are carrying out their jobs exactly as they should be. If you are getting shot by Concord then you have engaged another capsuleer in combat illegally. And they darn well should be responding to that. It's not rocket science.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#99 - 2015-08-02 21:13:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Deitra Vess
Your right, there were like two or three of them on average, not eight. I said increase not sudden appearance.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#100 - 2015-08-02 21:15:15 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
As for 'They attacked first'. Need I remind people of the Seekers that were slaughtered that DIDN'T EVEN FIRE BACK IN SELF DEFENCE. If that's not attempting diplomacy may I ask what is, when you are so passive as to not even defend yourself. Yet capsuleers continued to kill them despite no Concord bounties and no valuable items. Just for the fun of it.


Are we arguing for Drone Rights now?