These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[news] Vigilant Tyrannos assault on Safizon

Author
Arrendis
TK Corp
#61 - 2015-08-01 21:18:48 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Please. If you're going to engage in conspiracy-mongering, at least try to make it sensible.


Where's the fun in that?
Anslo
Scope Works
#62 - 2015-08-01 21:29:57 UTC
I don't see the Empress saying "I hereby decree that all loyalists are to attack" blah blah blah. I do see Amarr bashing others as cowards for not wanting to throw ship and crew on to the Drifters like some sick sacrifice.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

The Golden Serpent
A Drunken Squirrels' Conspiracy for Revenge
#63 - 2015-08-02 00:45:42 UTC  |  Edited by: The Golden Serpent
Yes the shuttles were there to provide signposts for the Bob Fundamentalists, they were given heretical Bob-affirming names so that they were very prominent on the overview, because there were a lot of them.

They are trying to convert the Drifters to the Religion of Bob because they know like I do that is what the Drifters are possibly looking for is religion and meaning in their lives.

That's why they've been seen all over the place, not just Amarr, but they are in Amarr more because we as an Empire know a lot more about God.

-:¦:-•:'":•.-:¦:-•* K H A N I D •-:¦:-•:''''*:•-:¦:-

Anyanka Funk
Doomheim
#64 - 2015-08-02 01:03:12 UTC
Anslo wrote:
I don't see the Empress saying "I hereby decree that all loyalists are to attack" blah blah blah. I do see Amarr bashing others as cowards for not wanting to throw ship and crew on to the Drifters like some sick sacrifice.

Empress is scared she will lose a titan to Drifters.
Aeon Amadii
#65 - 2015-08-02 01:11:08 UTC
At least it isn't a repeat of the Sansha Incursions that are still popping up all over. Don't think these Drifters have ground forces, but if they do we certainly haven't seen them on any of our deployments or contracts for the Federal Marines. We'll keep an eye out, either way, though I wonder about the Drifter crafts' susceptibility to boarding teams...

I've seen some Amarr Counter-Boarders work before. Brutal, to say the least. Wonder what kind of good they could do in all this...

(This character is the Eve version of Aeon Amadi since there is no cross-forum support)

Member of CPM 2

Max Singularity
House Singularity
Sixth Empire
#66 - 2015-08-02 01:29:38 UTC
The Golden Serpent wrote:

Something happened and an Oracle pilot announced they would be attempting to harass and kite a Drifter at the station. They form a circular formation and shoot laser-like beams at the target. This Oracle pilot ran back and forth at the station for over an hour I lost count. The beams are very strong they can obliterate a ship in seconds, but he was quite fast.



That bold Oracle pilot is one of my military attachés that responded to the emergency of behalf of The Amarr People of my Star Diocese. Pilot Meta Knite of the Black Legion Alliance engaged the Drifters in his two Oracles. His combat heroics were observed by non-combat witnesses as he found a technique to survive the Drifter fire power for hours. He also heroically led the Drifters off of the station.

Congratulation Meta Knite, in that your actions are so noticed.

Proud.

/s/
Max Singularity VI

Harbinger of Faith His Holiness Maximilian Singularity VI, Pope of New Eden

First Champion House Kador (defeated) - #MagnateGate

Viceroy Interview & Apostle In Amarr

Ravana 729
A Drunken Squirrels' Conspiracy for Revenge
#67 - 2015-08-02 02:10:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Ravana 729
Interesting. No diplomacy though. They are vastly superior and alien and yet people are treating them like some kind of vermin. By some accounts they are firing on the Amarr Navy, but no one really knows why or who fired the first shot. (It could have been off grid in a secret operation area)

The Drifters are unusually passive. They don't act like Sansha with blind aggression.

A few good points:

"There are more ways than one to defend the Empire. Observation, study and contemplation, both religious and scientific, are among these ways. As the Empress said:

"Jamyl Sarum I: We believe the threat posed by Drifter forces to be contained. We continue to study these... creatures. Their origins are unknown, but they are certainly no product of the Lord's work."



Was the Navy operation a "study"?


"It seems clear to me this is not a war we can win if the Drifters bring in the full force of their arsenal"

I think that might be true. No one really knows for sure, but for such an advanced race one cannot imagine they are not playing the long game.
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#68 - 2015-08-02 02:39:47 UTC
Ravana 729 wrote:
Interesting. No diplomacy though. They are vastly superior and alien and yet people are treating them like some kind of vermin. By some accounts they are firing on the Amarr Navy, but no one really knows why or who fired the first shot. (It could have been off grid in a secret operation area)

We tried diplomacy. Multiple times.

Didn't work out.
Aeon Amadii
#69 - 2015-08-02 03:08:32 UTC
Jaret Victorian wrote:
Ravana 729 wrote:
Interesting. No diplomacy though. They are vastly superior and alien and yet people are treating them like some kind of vermin. By some accounts they are firing on the Amarr Navy, but no one really knows why or who fired the first shot. (It could have been off grid in a secret operation area)

We tried diplomacy. Multiple times.

Didn't work out.


They're likely incapable of communication save for amongst themselves. They're no different than the Sleepers or the Drones, just aimlessly wandering about with some sinister purpose that doesn't necessitate talk. A diplomatic approach assumes the ability for both parties to delegate - that isn't the case here. The only thing these Drifters know is putting rounds down range.

(This character is the Eve version of Aeon Amadi since there is no cross-forum support)

Member of CPM 2

Ravana 729
A Drunken Squirrels' Conspiracy for Revenge
#70 - 2015-08-02 04:24:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ravana 729
So you attempted to talk to them. Maybe this presence is their way of talking back. They clearly don't like their homes being invaded, and that is really poor diplomacy in that example. Perhaps they're telling you all to step off.

Clearly they don't like some people. Must be a reason for them firing on some and then tolerating others to the point that you can bump shields with their ships.

The Drifters know when to act and when not to act. They are not random mindless things, even though we might be too stupid to understand them. They are not firing upon structures or people randomly, it just seems that way to us.

They have a hidden agenda, known only to them and it will be revealed in time. They may not be here for us at all.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#71 - 2015-08-02 07:28:31 UTC
Ravana 729 wrote:
They may not be here for us at all.


Then they should stop using our frickin' corpses. No, they're not mindless. If they were mindless, they'd be less of an obscenity against basic human decency. You want to know why they stopped firing? It's pretty damned obvious: they got what they wanted, and they're clearly a bloody hive mind that puts awareness into the meatsuits when it needs to.

They're an obscenity. I don't care who pissed them off, they're clearly not interested in a proportionate response. Half a dozen people did something that offends them? Go after those half a dozen people. Killing 30,000 people because they're in your way when you clearly have the technological advantage is cruel and sadistic. You really want to bet they couldn't just disable ships if they wanted to? Just neut them out?

No no, instead, they show up, and they slaughter. They fire first, and they fire to inflict maximum fatalities.

They need to be wiped out, and all their toys broken.
Yockerbow
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2015-08-02 08:25:56 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Ravana 729 wrote:
They may not be here for us at all.


Then they should stop using our frickin' corpses. No, they're not mindless. If they were mindless, they'd be less of an obscenity against basic human decency. You want to know why they stopped firing? It's pretty damned obvious: they got what they wanted, and they're clearly a bloody hive mind that puts awareness into the meatsuits when it needs to.

They're an obscenity. I don't care who pissed them off, they're clearly not interested in a proportionate response. Half a dozen people did something that offends them? Go after those half a dozen people. Killing 30,000 people because they're in your way when you clearly have the technological advantage is cruel and sadistic. You really want to bet they couldn't just disable ships if they wanted to? Just neut them out?

No no, instead, they show up, and they slaughter. They fire first, and they fire to inflict maximum fatalities.

They need to be wiped out, and all their toys broken.


Interesting choice to never use the word "Drifter" in your analysis. Your words could equally apply to a large number of capsule pilots, and equivalent statements about capsuleers have been made by many groups (notably the Sisters of EVE).

The Drifters possess technology almost incomprehensibly above ours, and have possibly had it for orders of magnitude more time. Rather than trying to model them in terms of "normal human" groups, it may be more appropriate to apply extreme extrapolations of independent capsuleer motives and actions.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#73 - 2015-08-02 09:08:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Why Amarr people do not dethrone already this stupid "Empress". She could get us all killed with her mindless, frivolous, reckless behaviours, like against peacefull Society. X
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2015-08-02 12:18:29 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Ravana 729 wrote:
They may not be here for us at all.


Then they should stop using our frickin' corpses. No, they're not mindless. If they were mindless, they'd be less of an obscenity against basic human decency. You want to know why they stopped firing? It's pretty damned obvious: they got what they wanted, and they're clearly a bloody hive mind that puts awareness into the meatsuits when it needs to.

They're an obscenity. I don't care who pissed them off, they're clearly not interested in a proportionate response. Half a dozen people did something that offends them? Go after those half a dozen people. Killing 30,000 people because they're in your way when you clearly have the technological advantage is cruel and sadistic. You really want to bet they couldn't just disable ships if they wanted to? Just neut them out?

No no, instead, they show up, and they slaughter. They fire first, and they fire to inflict maximum fatalities.

They need to be wiped out, and all their toys broken.


Without knowing the reasons for Drifter actions we cannot know if this is considered a reasonable response or not. If this is in reaction to the plunder of sleeper enclave to brutally extract implants from defenseless Jove in their stasis pods then I can imagine they would have a considerably different view on what constitutes 'proportionate'.

Having said that it could just as easily be that they detest slavery or even simply loathe shiny gold ships.
Aeon Amadii
#75 - 2015-08-02 12:45:25 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Ravana 729 wrote:
They may not be here for us at all.


Then they should stop using our frickin' corpses. No, they're not mindless. If they were mindless, they'd be less of an obscenity against basic human decency. You want to know why they stopped firing? It's pretty damned obvious: they got what they wanted, and they're clearly a bloody hive mind that puts awareness into the meatsuits when it needs to.

They're an obscenity. I don't care who pissed them off, they're clearly not interested in a proportionate response. Half a dozen people did something that offends them? Go after those half a dozen people. Killing 30,000 people because they're in your way when you clearly have the technological advantage is cruel and sadistic. You really want to bet they couldn't just disable ships if they wanted to? Just neut them out?

No no, instead, they show up, and they slaughter. They fire first, and they fire to inflict maximum fatalities.

They need to be wiped out, and all their toys broken.


Without knowing the reasons for Drifter actions we cannot know if this is considered a reasonable response or not. If this is in reaction to the plunder of sleeper enclave to brutally extract implants from defenseless Jove in their stasis pods then I can imagine they would have a considerably different view on what constitutes 'proportionate'.

Having said that it could just as easily be that they detest slavery or even simply loathe shiny gold ships.


It's a valid argument but I can't help but wonder why they don't come after those of us on the ground in retaliation. We're the benefactors of the technology, first and foremost. Sure, there are those Capsuleers who accumulated the implants in the early days that we used before they were reverse engineered but why go after the Empire exclusively? Why not the capsuleers as a whole, or we - the infantry - that utilize this technology that came from the genocide of their kind?

No, I think there's more to this story. There is something about Safizon, perhaps. Wasn't the Keelaying ceremony recent..? The new Flagship? Look there and perhaps we'll find the answer.

(This character is the Eve version of Aeon Amadi since there is no cross-forum support)

Member of CPM 2

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2015-08-02 13:21:27 UTC
Aeon Amadii wrote:
...
It's a valid argument but I can't help but wonder why they don't come after those of us on the ground in retaliation. We're the benefactors of the technology, first and foremost. Sure, there are those Capsuleers who accumulated the implants in the early days that we used before they were reverse engineered but why go after the Empire exclusively? Why not the capsuleers as a whole, or we - the infantry - that utilize this technology that came from the genocide of their kind?

No, I think there's more to this story. There is something about Safizon, perhaps. Wasn't the Keelaying ceremony recent..? The new Flagship? Look there and perhaps we'll find the answer.


True enough, I was just trying to provide examples. What is seemingly clear though is that at least for now the Drifters are focused solely on the Amarr Empire for some reason. If the Amarr Empire want assistance from other areas then they need to be more forthcoming with their reasons why. Simply claiming that the Drifters are a threat to all without providing evidence why isn't going to cut it.
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#77 - 2015-08-02 13:25:35 UTC
Max Singularity wrote:

That bold Oracle pilot is one of my military attachés that responded to the emergency of behalf of The Amarr People of my Star Diocese. Pilot Meta Knite of the Black Legion Alliance engaged the Drifters in his two Oracles. His combat heroics were observed by non-combat witnesses as he found a technique to survive the Drifter fire power for hours. He also heroically led the Drifters off of the station.


He fit a 500mn mwd and 2 beam lasers to his Oracle. While this certainly makes him fast, it also makes him completely useless in a combat situation, as his lasers cannot track as fast as he moves. Not that two guns are going to do any kind of appreciable damage anyway.

If his aim was to act as a glorified camera drone then he did an excellent job.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim

Aeon Amadii
#78 - 2015-08-02 13:33:37 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Aeon Amadii wrote:
...
It's a valid argument but I can't help but wonder why they don't come after those of us on the ground in retaliation. We're the benefactors of the technology, first and foremost. Sure, there are those Capsuleers who accumulated the implants in the early days that we used before they were reverse engineered but why go after the Empire exclusively? Why not the capsuleers as a whole, or we - the infantry - that utilize this technology that came from the genocide of their kind?

No, I think there's more to this story. There is something about Safizon, perhaps. Wasn't the Keelaying ceremony recent..? The new Flagship? Look there and perhaps we'll find the answer.


True enough, I was just trying to provide examples. What is seemingly clear though is that at least for now the Drifters are focused solely on the Amarr Empire for some reason. If the Amarr Empire want assistance from other areas then they need to be more forthcoming with their reasons why. Simply claiming that the Drifters are a threat to all without providing evidence why isn't going to cut it.


They can claim that long-limb roe isn't the single best tasted delicacy in the universe or that Sansha Kuvakei is the rightful heir to the throne, wouldn't make much difference to me as long as the ISK winds up in my account. I'll shoot anything if you pay for the rounds. Reasons why aren't important, honestly.

(This character is the Eve version of Aeon Amadi since there is no cross-forum support)

Member of CPM 2

Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2015-08-02 13:58:52 UTC
Aeon Amadii wrote:


They're likely incapable of communication save for amongst themselves.



Untrue.

Obviously they are an advanced society. This means they speak the language of math. They are not incapable, they just choose not to.

Except for CONCORD. They seem to be able to communicate with them on some level...

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."

Aeon Amadii
#80 - 2015-08-02 14:18:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Aeon Amadii
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
Aeon Amadii wrote:


They're likely incapable of communication save for amongst themselves.



Untrue.

Obviously they are an advanced society. This means they speak the language of math. They are not incapable, they just choose not to.

Except for CONCORD. They seem to be able to communicate with them on some level...


An interesting theory, but still just.

EDIT: I equate Drifter communication to that of a pack animal, honestly... Insect, more like... Fact of the matter is they can't, or won't, communciate with us and that is all that matters in the end. This pacifist, sympathetic approach to them is going to end up causing more fatalities than necessary. Diplomacy does not interact well with primordial, instinctual thinking.

(This character is the Eve version of Aeon Amadi since there is no cross-forum support)

Member of CPM 2