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Why would you NOT 0.01 ISK market orders?
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vccv
#21 - 2015-07-31 05:57:13 UTC  |  Edited by: vccv
Hate Myself wrote:
Jeronica wrote:
I think fact of the matter is, as long as the price is still higher than what you bought it for you're still making isk. If you want to put the effort in for a quick return on the stock then go for it. If you know the item will sell without .01'ing every 10min then why bother. You'll eventually get your requested sell price and won't lose sleep about it even if it takes an extra 6 hours.

I used to play the .01 game when I traded 2 years ago, but I think if I were to start trading again I'd do a less effort approach for supplemental isk. I can understand if your capital is low (<5-10bil) .01 isking would be enticing.



Ahhh, the air of smug superiority P

I am not talking about every 10 minutes (though I do know that some like to play like that, more power to them, you are not 'better' than they are).

I am taking when you lower yourself to go check your orders like us mere mortals.


I dont know who we would call "smug" in this situation.. Lol but 5-10b is not a lot. The fact remains, as long as there is profit, sometimes its not worth the trouble to play the pennywars. Of course as others have stated, it can be done for other reasons as well.

My guess is you posted this after growing weary. 01 isking and you werent giggling at all. Try not to overthink it so much.. just my advice.
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#22 - 2015-07-31 06:23:57 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
I as industrialist (actually building the stuff) pretty much only have the ISK investment of the production costs to worry about.

I have seen 0.01's do that to me on the market when i place things just below or even at their lowest sell order prices. Now what is funny is when i start dropping the price by 500k-5 million....they still keep dropping at .01

I dont place buy orders, i can build 100 destroyers at the cost of just under 100k, or some battlecruisers at the cost of 35 million for a stack of 10 of them and sell at 70-80 each, same with battleships, freighters, orcas, modules, and especially rigs.

And if i have enough stock of something i can destroy the market quite easily because of the nature of .01's
Like last November, talos were going for as much as 80-90 mill....when a 0.1 attempted to do his thing i just started dropping prices...i sold my last talos for about 70 mill when i was done.
The market however had dipped afterwards to avg 60-64 on buy orders and as low as 66 on avg in sell orders and di not recover till late Feb/early March to its former Nov pricing.

So I must ask, when you see this going on....why do you insist on 0.01ing the stuff when it becomes obvious your 0.01 does not affect me at all, ever?

*on side note* my CEO told me not to do that anymore, because we have the ability like every other serious indy guy to dump several categories.


There is no way to build destroyers at 100k each.

I build Catalysts quite often and depending on the market they cost 600-850k to build each hull. They are a basket of minerals and are as such sensitive to price fluctuations, mostly caused by fluctuations in supercapital demand.

IIRC the Mexallon alone is more than 100k even at the present historic low prices for Mex.

But if you can build Catalysts for 100k each, feel free to contract twenty thousand of them to me at 200k each tomorrow, and another quarter million to my alliance.


Had this discussion once a long time ago.....
whether i do it myself or pay some one to do it....1 hour of mining will net all the low end minerals for 85-90 cats.
a few missions and bam enough stuff to melt down takes care of the meg and zyd......
so yeah just paying the production costs....100 destroyers, cats/thrashers/corms are roughly about 40,000 isk per ship to build.
Hate Myself
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#23 - 2015-07-31 06:36:20 UTC
vccv wrote:
My guess is you posted this after growing weary. 01 isking and you werent giggling at all. Try not to overthink it so much.. just my advice.


Nope, I have been at it a few years (and yeah, 5-10b is not a lot).

I even spent most of the time feeling superior to everyone else by not 0.01 isking my orders & playing all sorts of 'tactical games' (my internal bias there, I thought what was pumped here was right).

I also once did the 0.01 ISK every 10 minutes or so. These days though, I 0.01 ISK everything when I check my orders and guess what? My turnover in items has not changed at all in terms of items but my profits are drastically increased. I now look back and wonder WTF I was thinking.
Cista2
EVE Museum
#24 - 2015-07-31 06:48:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Cista2
Because 0.01 isking is time-inefficient. It is the simplest of answers, yet you have still not realised it.

You make more isk than me per day, but I make more isk than you per minute that I spend in EVE, which is the parameter that I seek to optimise.
I bought item x for today's price minus 40% two weeks ago, I don't need to even look at today's market spread of 15% to make 25% profit. So I undercut you with 5%, then with 5% more, then you buy my order.

So we are both happy with the transaction, but unfortunately for you, I am the only one of us who understands why.

My channel: "Signatures" -
Hate Myself
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2015-07-31 08:01:46 UTC
Cista2 wrote:
Because 0.01 isking is time-inefficient. It is the simplest of answers, yet you have still not realised it.



Why?


It is probably quicker, I don't have to make any decisions, I just 0.01 ISK. Don't change how often you check your orders, just 0.01 ISK everything.... profit!
Etara Silverblade
Morex Group Inc.
Haven.
#26 - 2015-07-31 08:40:42 UTC
It's only a game and making isk isn't everything. I like certain numbers and dislike others so I make sure my orders don't end in even digits. Sometimes I want to make sure my order ends in .99 othertimes I'll play with the digits in the price to make a pattern. It's all to have fun with it and not worry about the actually making isk or being efficient. I still make my isk in the end and a little less or more doesn't really matter.

Your analysis of the practice looks like you are taking it way to seriously and you'll never have fun doing that. That's what RL is for, maybe.
Hate Myself
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-07-31 08:49:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Hate Myself
Etara Silverblade wrote:
Your analysis of the practice looks like you are taking it way to seriously and you'll never have fun doing that. That's what RL is for, maybe.



That is a fallacy, I have plenty of fun playing the markets, it is one of my favorite things to do in EVE.


Why do you do it if it is not for fun? Sounding a bit hypocritical there :P .
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#28 - 2015-07-31 10:30:43 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
I as industrialist (actually building the stuff) pretty much only have the ISK investment of the production costs to worry about.

I have seen 0.01's do that to me on the market when i place things just below or even at their lowest sell order prices. Now what is funny is when i start dropping the price by 500k-5 million....they still keep dropping at .01

I dont place buy orders, i can build 100 destroyers at the cost of just under 100k, or some battlecruisers at the cost of 35 million for a stack of 10 of them and sell at 70-80 each, same with battleships, freighters, orcas, modules, and especially rigs.

And if i have enough stock of something i can destroy the market quite easily because of the nature of .01's
Like last November, talos were going for as much as 80-90 mill....when a 0.1 attempted to do his thing i just started dropping prices...i sold my last talos for about 70 mill when i was done.
The market however had dipped afterwards to avg 60-64 on buy orders and as low as 66 on avg in sell orders and di not recover till late Feb/early March to its former Nov pricing.

So I must ask, when you see this going on....why do you insist on 0.01ing the stuff when it becomes obvious your 0.01 does not affect me at all, ever?

*on side note* my CEO told me not to do that anymore, because we have the ability like every other serious indy guy to dump several categories.


There is no way to build destroyers at 100k each.

I build Catalysts quite often and depending on the market they cost 600-850k to build each hull. They are a basket of minerals and are as such sensitive to price fluctuations, mostly caused by fluctuations in supercapital demand.

IIRC the Mexallon alone is more than 100k even at the present historic low prices for Mex.

But if you can build Catalysts for 100k each, feel free to contract twenty thousand of them to me at 200k each tomorrow, and another quarter million to my alliance.


Had this discussion once a long time ago.....
whether i do it myself or pay some one to do it....1 hour of mining will net all the low end minerals for 85-90 cats.
a few missions and bam enough stuff to melt down takes care of the meg and zyd......
so yeah just paying the production costs....100 destroyers, cats/thrashers/corms are roughly about 40,000 isk per ship to build.



You are a Minerals I Mine Are Free person?

In that case, my offer to purchase twenty thousand catalysts at 200k each stands. Or any smaller number.

I can provide BPCs if you do not own the relevant BPOs.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2015-07-31 11:04:21 UTC  |  Edited by: virm pasuul
This thread seems like a ego stroke "look how clever I am" post, but it paints the opposite picture to the intended one for me.
There is a time and a place for 0.01ing, however that is not all the time and everywhere.
Consideration of factors like daily volume, peaks and troughs, adjacent price density at certain points, awareness of market manipulation attempts, even market cost of raw materials versus market cost of finished item, can all make you more ISK for less effort.

That you cannot see something does not mean it does not exist, only that you cannot see it.

To answer the question that is the title of this thread.
"To make more ISK."
Cista2
EVE Museum
#30 - 2015-07-31 11:23:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Cista2
Hate Myself wrote:
Cista2 wrote:
Because 0.01 isking is time-inefficient. It is the simplest of answers, yet you have still not realised it.



Why?


It is probably quicker, I don't have to make any decisions, I just 0.01 ISK. Don't change how often you check your orders, just 0.01 ISK everything.... profit!

Ah, but you just said yourself, that if I undercut you in large percentages ("push hard"), then you or others will buy my stuff and relist it. This is exactly what i wanted you to do and what makes me happy. And you still don't get it.

If i 0.01 ISK you then you will 0.01 ISK me, and others will 0.01 ISk me, and my stuff won't sell for days or weeks, unless I spent as much time and energy in the game as you do. Which I don't.

So we are both happy, except only one of us aware of what is going on.

In a sense it works very much like this thread here. You have posted 15 times, I have posted just 2 times. But I have already embarassed you, due to the fact that my posts - like my price cuts - dig deeper.

My channel: "Signatures" -
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#31 - 2015-07-31 13:34:37 UTC
Cista2 wrote:


In a sense it works very much like this thread here. You have posted 15 times, I have posted just 2 times. But I have already embarassed you, due to the fact that my posts - like my price cuts - dig deeper.

I just bought the **** outta this listing.

TAUTX: Private Bank & Lending

TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items
Droodid
Antec Enterprises
#32 - 2015-07-31 14:37:03 UTC
Hate Myself wrote:
This has puzzled me for some time but I typically only see things from a 0.01 ISK’ers point of view.

Because I don't...Hate Myself!! (Badum-Tisch!). Sorry, couldn't resist.
0000000000ZERO0000000000
Zero Zentharis
#33 - 2015-07-31 15:10:30 UTC
Hate Myself wrote:

Nope, I have been at it a few years (and yeah, 5-10b is not a lot).

I'd think that large number of people in this thread make that much in profit each month, and I highly doubt they do so by .01 ISKing.
Makhpella
Bad Taste.
#34 - 2015-07-31 15:25:11 UTC
Hate Myself wrote:

So, yeah, I need educating, why do you NOT 0.01 ISK?

You might lose your sanity.
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#35 - 2015-07-31 17:08:32 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
I as industrialist (actually building the stuff) pretty much only have the ISK investment of the production costs to worry about.

I have seen 0.01's do that to me on the market when i place things just below or even at their lowest sell order prices. Now what is funny is when i start dropping the price by 500k-5 million....they still keep dropping at .01

I dont place buy orders, i can build 100 destroyers at the cost of just under 100k, or some battlecruisers at the cost of 35 million for a stack of 10 of them and sell at 70-80 each, same with battleships, freighters, orcas, modules, and especially rigs.

And if i have enough stock of something i can destroy the market quite easily because of the nature of .01's
Like last November, talos were going for as much as 80-90 mill....when a 0.1 attempted to do his thing i just started dropping prices...i sold my last talos for about 70 mill when i was done.
The market however had dipped afterwards to avg 60-64 on buy orders and as low as 66 on avg in sell orders and di not recover till late Feb/early March to its former Nov pricing.

So I must ask, when you see this going on....why do you insist on 0.01ing the stuff when it becomes obvious your 0.01 does not affect me at all, ever?

*on side note* my CEO told me not to do that anymore, because we have the ability like every other serious indy guy to dump several categories.


There is no way to build destroyers at 100k each.

I build Catalysts quite often and depending on the market they cost 600-850k to build each hull. They are a basket of minerals and are as such sensitive to price fluctuations, mostly caused by fluctuations in supercapital demand.

IIRC the Mexallon alone is more than 100k even at the present historic low prices for Mex.

But if you can build Catalysts for 100k each, feel free to contract twenty thousand of them to me at 200k each tomorrow, and another quarter million to my alliance.


Had this discussion once a long time ago.....
whether i do it myself or pay some one to do it....1 hour of mining will net all the low end minerals for 85-90 cats.
a few missions and bam enough stuff to melt down takes care of the meg and zyd......
so yeah just paying the production costs....100 destroyers, cats/thrashers/corms are roughly about 40,000 isk per ship to build.



You are a Minerals I Mine Are Free person?

In that case, my offer to purchase twenty thousand catalysts at 200k each stands. Or any smaller number.

I can provide BPCs if you do not own the relevant BPOs.


Hilarious, but no sorry...we dont sell cats, our alts use them. you will have to give us some better pricing, and also maybe guarantees....not limited to your entire Alliances API non-expiry for each account per player, a RL home number, maybe address, and a RL credit report before we do direct business with you.
Oh and btw, i just know the numbers from testing them out....otherwise my corp rarely mines itself, we are Indy as in mnaufacturing not a mining corp.
HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#36 - 2015-07-31 18:23:52 UTC
virm pasuul wrote:
This thread seems like a ego stroke "look how clever I am" post, but it paints the opposite picture to the intended one for me.
There is a time and a place for 0.01ing, however that is not all the time and everywhere.
Consideration of factors like daily volume, peaks and troughs, adjacent price density at certain points, awareness of market manipulation attempts, even market cost of raw materials versus market cost of finished item, can all make you more ISK for less effort.

That you cannot see something does not mean it does not exist, only that you cannot see it.

To answer the question that is the title of this thread.
"To make more ISK."


I think he's speaking what he knows from his limited experience. The reality is more evident to those of us who are more experienced traders. I have found that one of the biggest mistakes traders make is always wanting to get the maximum profit from their investment.
Many inexperienced traders fail to realize that time=isk.
Trouble with this philosophy is that it takes you a week to get rid of your position at 100% profit potential when you could have received 75% profit potential in one day and then had that much more free isk to trade with. The bottom line is that if you turn a profit you are succeeding but not all traders are created equal and this is something that takes time and experience to learn.
Aker Krane
OMEGADYNE LABS
Rising Darkness
#37 - 2015-07-31 18:46:24 UTC
HeXxploiT wrote:
I have found that one of the biggest mistakes traders make is always wanting to get the maximum profit from their investment.
Many inexperienced traders fail to realize that time=isk.



This ^
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#38 - 2015-07-31 18:48:09 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:

Hilarious, but no sorry...we dont sell cats, our alts use them. you will have to give us some better pricing, and also maybe guarantees....not limited to your entire Alliances API non-expiry for each account per player, a RL home number, maybe address, and a RL credit report before we do direct business with you.
Oh and btw, i just know the numbers from testing them out....otherwise my corp rarely mines itself, we are Indy as in mnaufacturing not a mining corp.


You can have all of my information if you'll sell me destroyers at 400k/unit Lol.

Free 3rd party services

Buddy link w/ bonus 250k SP, you keep the whole PLEX upon subscribing
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#39 - 2015-08-01 00:55:59 UTC
HeXxploiT wrote:


I think he's speaking what he knows from his limited experience. The reality is more evident to those of us who are more experienced traders. I have found that one of the biggest mistakes traders make is always wanting to get the maximum profit from their investment.
Many inexperienced traders fail to realize that time=isk.
Trouble with this philosophy is that it takes you a week to get rid of your position at 100% profit potential when you could have received 75% profit potential in one day and then had that much more free isk to trade with. The bottom line is that if you turn a profit you are succeeding but not all traders are created equal and this is something that takes time and experience to learn.


Part of it is understanding whether you are capital constrained or RL time constrained.

One of the hardest things to do, IMO, is to incur expenses to gain liquidity fast to seize a short term opportunity. Whether it be overpaying for a loan to get it filled within ten minutes, or selling trade stock below what you paid for it, to jump on something better.

I did this when the CovOps rebalance was announced - immediately looked for a loan and offered more than fair interest to get it filled fast, so I could run multiple lines vomiting out Lachesis hulls. Worked for me - I had to pay 300m for the loan (5b at 6%/month with decent collateral) but easily made more than that back.

I missed the opportunity to do this on Morphite. Once I'd established that it would go from 6.6k to (my projection) 10.5-11k, I should have panic sold *everything* semi-liquid and bought up three or four million units. Instead I only bought half a million with the ISK I had on hand.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Plato Idari
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#40 - 2015-08-01 03:30:10 UTC
I don't .01 isk because I value my time more than you do. It makes more sense for me to raise the price to the point where you wont/cant .01 isk me than it to stick around every 5 minutes to change my price. If I really care about an order I might check in on it once an hour.
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