Crime & Punishment

I just want the 1v1 with Vimsy. It's a side thing. I've been chasing her across several threads. When she talks like a hard core mercanary - she gets invited into thunderdome. She can either accept or bleed credibility until there isn't any left. I just want the thrill of solo combat with a true professional. It's just that simple.

CODE is a self healing wound. I think you're way off base with your rank and file member direction. What they do is too easily done to disrupt. The rank and file are already -10 darting around under concord's nose. There is no group of pilots that can outdo cocord against a group of -10 gank characters. Concord is always on duty and always just a few seconds away. Humans can't compete with 23/7 coverage and those response times.

CODE will burn out when a couple of things happen. They have to realize they are doing more harm than good (this box has already been checked). The next step (and this is the big one for them) is to come to terms with letting go of the machine they are running for the greater good of the game. It's the giving up what they created part that they are stumbling over. The leadership has to be big enough to let go of a bad thing while they are personally deriving good things from it. That's no easy task for anyone - in a game or otherwise.

I don't see the line members all catching the same epiphany at the same time and moving on to other parts of the game. Once subscription numbers suffer enough they will have to let it go. Not all of their leadership has the maturity to do this, so there will also need to be a rift and a falling out. Then the cascade. We'll miss a crop or two of new blood as they unwind, but my bet is that eve is good enough to outlast this failing experiment.

They are safe from external forces by virtue of the unique nature of what they do. You can't count on the line members - new recruits are just too easy to pull into the machine. They need to burn out due to lack of targets or internal strife.

Mining in skiffs and minding your freighters is the best any outside influences can do to help them on their way.

It's my opinion based on my experience as a sentient human being. I've never seen Bill Gates carrying a stack of money equal to a million dollars, yet (without quantifieable proof) I still believe he is a millionaire. I can only show you pictures where he isn't burried in money so my proof is lacking.

My though process goes something like this:

Folks don't like to get suicide ganked. In 10 years the closest I've come to hearing that is the occaisional sigh/chuckle from very rich veteran players when it happens to them. I have no recollectin of any movement where the 'yeah we've been ganked' super happy fun crowd gathers to celebrate getting clubbed to death while they were bent over tieing their shoes. It's just not there.

There is only so much someone is willing to invest in time and effort to avoid getting clubbed to death while pulling up thier socks. The newer the player - the less they have invested in the game. The newer the player the more the loss impacts them - financially and socially.

No one likes getting kicked in the junk. Many folks get over it. Some folks look back at it as a turning point / right of passage or whatever, but again NO ONE LIKES GETTING KICKED IN THE JUNK. So, (try to stay with me here) 100 dudes running around kicking guys in the junk on a daily basis isn't good for the game because.... (drum roll please) no on likes getting kicked in the junk.

There are 2 sides. Kickers are alts and guys that aren't really on the block for quitting the game - they aren't subs that are going to walk away from the game.

Kickees - some get it. some buck up and move on. some go to null like the theory says. some quit.

Here's my opinion on suicide ganking. Just like pvp - it has a couple of flavors.
1. The 'it's personal' gank - super good for the game. It adds depth and meaning. A guy gets kicked in the balls for some reason. Sure it hurts, but it's also understood by both sides why it happened.
2. The 'for profit' gank - still good for the game. There is still an understandable reason that both sides can get their arms around. The guy that got kicked in the nuts had something of value, so he's been in the game long enough to have a clue.
3. The 'for a good cause' gank - this is where ganking botters and that sort of thing comes into play. Again there is a REAL reason and both sides understand it. This is where players keep the game healthy. Self policing is good for the game.
4. The 'you took a risk and paid for it' gank - this is where zydrine megacyte and his ilk zip around and gank pods on auto pilot. Ganking an overloaded hauler on auto pilot also falls in here. Auto pilot has it's risks - suicide ganking is the major one. I think pushing the autopilot button is totally consent to come back to the computer and find your pod in an unplanned place. Hard knocks - yes. Bad for the game - no.

--------------------------the line------------------------------- (ok not 'the line' but Serendipity's line)

5. Players making poop up and then running around suicide ganking large numbers of players whose only 'crime' is to be out mining is a healthy definition for internet bullying. Justifying these actions with terms like 'bot aspirant' (though a clever and initially funny term) doesn't give enough meaning to the gankees. This is where there is meaning to the one side and not the other. This is where it gets bad for the game. This is where suicide ganking does more harm to the targets than good for the game.

I gank mission cream puffs. I've never spoken out against groups like the freight club or bat country (I have spoken out against freighters having beach ball mechanics - which could be easily fixed without removing freighter ganking from the game). I've reshipped several guys that have earned. I've actually been a part of 1,2 and 3. I've tried to do 4, but I don't have the patience to wait on a goog hauler. I'm not against suicide ganking. In my opinion the whole mining permit, miner ganking and bot aspirant stuff is just bad for the game. My 'proof' is a combination of listening to folks on comms for 10 years and a basic understanding of what folks will and won't put up with while paying $15 dollars/month to have a good time.

I've never seen a picture of common sense, but I do know what it looks like.

We both know that's not what I said, but to be clear and focus any interpretations:

I think that what code does to miners is bad for the game. I don't think most types of suicide ganking are bad for the game.

@Serendipity Lost
Tldr
What little I did read suggested you don't have any backing statistics or proof of any kind and only the worst analogy I've ever seen on these forums. With basic research you can find out that bill gates is worth 78.9bil us. With basic research I can tell you suicide ganking new players has the highest rate of retention of the 3 categories of players who didn't die in their trial, people who got killed legally and people who got suicide ganked. So at this point I say you are just wrong and that's the end of it unless you can find facts and figures to refute my own

Not quite. I'm using a study while serendipity used the think of the children line. I take issue with stating facts supported by only your own opinion...

I'm pleased you put your thoughts down, thxs for the reply, so many have understood already but I will spell it out for you "yes we will be ganking".

Just like to add I'm not talking about real merc that do a job, just the one's that hide under that title ,so if we get this group together I'll look forward to seeing you

You left out a 3rd reason: curiosity. How good is she in comparison to you? CAN she take you? what lessons will be learned by it and can be taken away from it wether she wins or loses? the experience of fighting a skilled merc 1v1 is surely going to improve her skill set regardless of the outcome. Plus gdamn it sometimes you just NEED to know.

the 4th reason is ofc the sheer fun of it: anyone can gank a miner. or smart bomb a frig a low sec gate. Atron to Atron though? nows thats fun. Can I go ten rounds please XD (yeah yeah I know go join RvB...)

you said "I wouldn't stand to gain anything by accepting your challenge", well thats not true shes offering to pay you a merc contract to take it :P

I was using common sense and general knowledge of how life works. No charts studies or graphs.

You do like winning. Winning to you just doesn't fit the easily understandable kb norm. Me and the guys 'won' a fight last night. Look at our kb and you may scratch your head a bit. A little detail. It's been a busy summer and work has kept 'the group' kind of scattered. The guys we had on last night wanted to get in a fight. We caught a mega rolling a wh, but got there late. WH was verge of collapse and they had way more fleet on the other side than we could reasonably have a chance at fighting. We had a quick vote and 'screw it let's go' won the discussion. We jumped what would fit through the wh, watched it close behind us and got pwnd. The win was jumping in together and executing the plan. The win was a small group of guys playing eve the way we like to play it. We took a really really bad fight, knew we would lose and it played out as expected.

https://zkillboard.com/corporation/164893220/

Looking at the kb I think the operative word would be 'ouch'. The funniest part of the whole thing. After 10 years or so of playing eve I bought my first set of high grade pirate implants. They lasted 3 days before I tossed them for a few laughs. Now I'm sure of the reason I never get high grade anything. I always thought I knew why, but now.... now I know why. I will say it was pleasing to not have to update my actual clone though.

Anyway Leto, you like to win - it's just that most folks don't understand the scale you use to measure winning. When you say 'ships are ammo' - most guys probably understand what you are saying, but few will ever actually live in that mindset.

Meh. Truths.

You might not be risk averse or whatever, and you might think this makes you cool or something, but from where I am standing, and the fact that you haven't dropped this, continuing over multiple threads, just makes you look like a completely uncool attention seeker!

I'm almost tempted to say I admire Vimsy more, for being honest, and not really caring what others think.

GO VIMSY!!!!!! NEVER 1v1 FTW