Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Mara was not making an ad hominem attack. It was a legitimate question. If I were to say that you are being a thin-skinned jerk, that would be an ad hominem attack.

If all someone wants out of Eve is to kill other people, then the skill training system adds nothing too it. FPS games do not usually have skill training. That is not why I am in Eve, however, I want something more than just killing for fun and profit. The character progression is an important part of being committed to the world of Eve.

I agree with this part. The skills do provide meaningful progression.

Yep, I started off ninja looting....sigh those days were a blast.

@Mara Rinn So your reason for removing skills is that they are a barrier if you flying a certain fleet setup.

That is true and that is why any decent community has entry fits.
I see a lot of players who just take fits from some websites or use coalition fits and they have no basic understanding of what they do. You have to tell them everything when to use a propmod when to switch ammo where to put ewar.
Its annoying if you are in a fleet and someone flys a fastlocking highalpha hurricane and they have absoluty no idea what they are doing .They do not understand that they should not shoot the primary because they are fleet defence and they forget to kill the dictor which then bubles the fleet if bombers come in they warp away instead of killing them.
If they are in a dictor they bubble the own fleet and in an ewar ship they are utterly useless.
It makes want to kill them and 6years ago if you would have behaved that bad you would have been killed by your own fleet witout reimburstment.

Skills give you a reason to learn what modifiers are on ship and when they are important and then it is still a long way to learn how to fly the ship but at least you have a basic idea.

If you want to learn basic pvp combat for a fastmoving fight you need 100-200hours just to know all the important ships, their popular fitsytheir basic combat roles and have a basic idea of what they are capable of.
Most people will need 3month just to learn this and then they would know nothing about skills, how to fit for PVE or industry or even how to fly their ship properly.

Most fun fleet I ever boosted was a FYF fleet(EWAR fleet) with 150pilots we disabled two fleets at once with meta3 fitted T1 ships and got no kills but we turned the battle. In this fleet we had a place for everyone and it was great fun.

It takes time to learn EVE and the skills help by showing you how the game works.

Training is one of the main reasons why why this game has so little people playing it (PEOPLE, not ACCOUNTS).

What every one of us players needs to ask ourselves, is: "Would I recommend EvE to a friend?"


The answers will vary from person to person of course, but the main problem is knowing that the person to whom you would recommend this game simply doesn't want to wait for a whole YEAR of training before he can do anything meaningful in the game.

People who tell new blood that skill points don't matter are full of **** either because they suck themselves or they are telling them this for a reason (blob recruitment for example). How do you explain a potential EvE player that it will take 6 months of training just to sort the BASICS (engineering/armor/shield/electronics/navigation/drone/probing skills), AND STILL HAVE HIM INTERESTED in playing the game (decent levels, not perfect)?

If a new player had someone experienced to advise him when starting out, the character would have some rudimentary training for a single ship at the beginning (maybe two) before remapping to intelligence+memory to start the 6 month grind to sort the basics. During this period the player will either rage quit or fly one or two ships with rudimentary skills until his teeth go numb which also leads to rage quitting. The few that don't rage quit are mentally scarred and tend to stay in EvE for a while.

If a new player didn't have anyone to help him out at the beginning, his 2 remaps are used up within first 2 weeks in most cases, he desperately tries training for a multitude of ships with **** skills all around and most likely **** remap and he will be paying for this initial mistake for YEARS to come. Great reason to keep playing, right?

Remove attributes and attribute implants all together, set the skills to train at best possible speed (as if specifically remapped for it and with +5 implants) and update the career agents to give skill levels for completing them, skills that reflect the career agent type.

Add more missions to career agents to reflect the different things that they are teaching/showing a new player (combat - damage dealing, combat - Ewar, combat - Logi, combat - tackle, industry - mining, industry - salvaging... and do the same with all other). Make it so that these career missions reward specific skill levels in the things that they "teach" so that a new player who finished the combat career mission arc ends up with level 4 skills across the board for fitting skills, navigation skills, drone skills, Ewar skills specific to the faction where he started as well as L4 frigate, destroyer and cruiser skills specific to the faction where he started and L4 gunnery/missile skills specifics to the faction where he started.

Do the same for industry, trade and exploration that would lead to earning L4 skills related to the career being "studied" so that miners end up in a t1 mining barge for example...

Put a restriction to obtaining these skills so that trials don't get them until they subscribe to prevent trial account abuse.


What would happen if a player completed all of these new career arcs? The training of basics would be cut down considerably and the pilot who came out of this "school of careers" would be ready to set out into the world of EvE without being months away from anything and everything he wanted to do, would be free to try many different aspects of the game without wasting months of training JUST TO TRY IT OUT and possibly end up wasting that training time because it didn't feel fun or whatever the reason.

Such a pilot would still have to train to polish his non perfect skills, but the initial gap from getting into any aspect of EvE would be bridged and where ever this pilot went, he could be a productive member of his corp in every way opposed to the current state of new bros who discover very soon that they are months away from anything they want to do. Not to mention training times would be much more managable without having a 3 year remapping plan from the beginning with +5's plugged in as soon as possible (training cybernetics feels like an extent of the old learning skills training).

Yeah that's a great story and perfectly doable if you're playing 24/7 which is not the case with most people.

My 6 months benchmark is completely true. Go and make a training plan in Evemon for just basic stuff that I mentioned above, you will get a plan OVER 6 months long without even doing any spaceship command training.

The only rubbish thing here is you flapping your mouth without anything to back it up.

Actually I flapped my fingers and it isn't a story but rather my actual experience of the game. I don't know what you've put into your EveMon plan but it isn't the skills I worked out for myself without EveMon.

I also never played 24/7

Out of interest I just added Sabre into my manufacturing alts EveMon. A touch over 27 days to get into the tech II destroyer hull and I know that sabre's are an awesome tackle ship. You didn't state perfect skills so just train every other supporting skill to IV and I'm sure that'll come in way under 6 months.

Sorry, I thought you were doing a ghetto-Noctis impression.

Apparently it was an MTU.

So NPE has changed alot since I first started. For me the barrier of entry was isk, which I totally think was a better way to learn the game. I had most of the recommended skills to 4 well before I could afford the ship, and on my first bs, I could afford a fit after I got the ship.

These days, new players are handed millions of isk on the first day, given loads of free skill books, ships, and equipment. This then makes skills the barrier and often ends with new players losing ships they should fly and getting upset with basic game mechanics instead of themselves.

Even after the many years of playing and many friends introduced to the game, I still feel that the current system is great (especially with the skill queue). What other game allows you make progress while you are stuck in the office all day?

There are alot of jobs a person can do with little to no sp, and I actually dislike that. I actually feel like it's too easy to make progress in eve.

When a person could cloak in FW plexs we would leave a newer person in a bait ship with lots of tackle and sit next to them cloaked in recons. They are the ones that brought others to the site and the one that called tackle. This was very very useful because people like to think anyone under x age old is 100% scrub and would come in to get a easy kill.



it takes only a day to fit tackle and prop. Everyone is always looking for more hero tackle.


to train a T2 gun, a frig 5 AWU 3 and T2 light drones with most supporting skills 4, the really important ones 5 (cpu, power, cap) and the less useful ones 3 (target management, anchoring) takes 208 days at the remap that one starts the game with no remaps no implants. This would give access to all things T2 for tank (both buffer and active) also gives access to assault frigs lv 3 and interceptors lv 3.


6 months gets you a lot (the above is just shy of 7) and is well over kill for starting to be useful. 2 months get a T2 interceptor with decent skills to fly it.


this is why people say to specialist,