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War Dec System Needs To Change.

Author
Iam The Flash
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-07-29 08:28:25 UTC
Hello

Now before you all go off at me for being a "noob" and "getting ganked" - I have never been ganked in a barge, i have not been killed in empire except when fighting war targets. I am posting this for the benefit of bringing new players into EvE.

What's wrong with multiple war decs?

In short, a lot, but, this has a direct effect on Null Sec & Low Sec, to claim it doesn't is the height of stupidity, why go to null to find fights when u can join a high sec griefer alliance that has thousands of war decs and targets in every system, half of which can't fight back? Easy kills, easy money, let's do it! No. This needs to change.

Lol you think it effects Null Sec, You're An Idiot.

I'm afraid not, the direct proof is that Null Sec, is empty, we roam in there all the time and in low sec, the areas of the game are dead, because what's the point in risking ships in "actual pvp fights" with other pilots who are trying just as hard to kill you, when you can blow up faction fit newish player mission ships n make billions?

So what do u suggest?

I suggest that corporations and alliances are limited to 5 war decs available.

This in effect means that large alliances cannot turn high sec into there own personal Null Sec, it means they have to go to Null Sec to get a target rich environment. It would also mean less combat in market hubs and less strain on the servers.

So to the point i recommend thus:@

Each corporation and alliance has a 5 war dec limit. This means they can ONLY declare 5 wars at any one time.

Each corporation and alliance can only be declared war upon, 3 times. This prevents things like i.e Goonswarm being perma decked by every large griefer alliance in the game.

For a corporation to declare war, they must have no fewer than 7 active members i.e 7 numbers. This would stop the alts of people who just like to **** mining corps off.

This would in effect make "mercs" an actual play style as they would have to get out of hubs and look for their targets. I.e what real mercs do.

These changes would force so called high sec griefer "pvp pilots" out of high sec and into low/null and would enhance that side of the game. You can see my personal killboard and know i PvP in low/null. So this is not me whining. We have a low sec HQ and if people are stupid enuff to get caught by war targets, that's there issue. I am a PvP pilot, i do "real" PvP, not high sec griefing. Bottom line is, this needs to stop

I am just tired of new corps being slammed into the floor by griefer alliances and corps. It needs to stop and CCP need to do summit about it.
Kenrailae
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2 - 2015-07-29 08:35:42 UTC
War decs do need a limit.


Source: Marmite


+1

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Anthar Thebess
#3 - 2015-07-29 08:51:13 UTC
I was , WTF Roll
But yes limiting offensive war number is good - as long as you can "get" unlimited number of wars.

No limit on player count , or similar stuff.

Maybe , rly maybe - block ability to join to corporation if it have any offensive wars , to prevent jumping.
Iam The Flash
Doomheim
#4 - 2015-07-29 08:59:15 UTC
I just want to see CCP do something about this.

We roam in Null/Low all the time and 9/10 systems are dead, why bother with null when u have risk free pvp in empire against new players?

It needs to stop.
Valkin Mordirc
#5 - 2015-07-29 09:41:06 UTC
Quote:
What's wrong with multiple war decs?

In short, a lot, but, this has a direct effect on Null Sec & Low Sec, to claim it doesn't is the height of stupidity, why go to null to find fights when u can join a high sec griefer alliance that has thousands of war decs and targets in every system, half of which can't fight back? Easy kills, easy money, let's do it! No. This needs to change.



I shouldn't be forced to move to null if I want to PvP. Simple as that. Are Mass Wardecs a problem? Sorta kinda. Some limit needs to be placed, maybe. But when a corp is willing to put itself under the pressure of have over 5000+ Wartargets they are not really being Risk adverse as you imply.

5000+ players of a 300corps with little to no idea on what they are capable of can really bite Mercenary Alliances in the ass sometimes. Energy Alliance, Ultima Ratio, Stratagem, Nulli, Dredd- The Purification Project, all have proven to be a headache to many Mercenaries.


Also the only reason mass wardecs happen is due to the increased warcost added years ago. No longer was War cheep. People needed to ban together pool isk in order to keep the warfund going. As more people joined Marmite, Forsaken and the such, the bigger the wallet got. The more the alliance could dec. With more people in the corp Merc Alliance could make Poco holding corps and defend them when needed. And take Poco's, making it again, more money to go to war.


Next off, Highsec Mercs are not griefers. They paid isk to dec you. You were idiotic enough to think you could go mission in your battleship. If a pilot can afford a battleship how are they defenseless? How can they not 'fight back'?

Players who die in highsec in a Mission fit Battleships are not weak, they simply refuse to fight back, they are weak because they allow themselves to be weak. Highsec Mercs are not griefers, they simply use a mechanic in game. If that is griefing then PL taking BR is griefing because they ruined 'Hero's Game'.

Next off, Wardec is not profitable without a contractor to pay for services rendered, sometimes you get lucky and find a faction fitted Rattler or a Dead Space fitted Golem but those are far and few between and more often than not in my case, usally ger repurposed to my own ships rather than sold.


Quote:
Lol you think it effects Null Sec, You're An Idiot.

I'm afraid not, the direct proof is that Null Sec, is empty, we roam in there all the time and in low sec, the areas of the game are dead, because what's the point in risking ships in "actual pvp fights" with other pilots who are trying just as hard to kill you, when you can blow up faction fit newish player mission ships n make billions?


1. How is 'your' PVP different from mine? Why do you consider yourself so special? Because you targets shoot back? How is it my fault that some jackwagon would rather self-destruct than fight me when I catch him? He had every option to fit for PVP but he chose not to. He made the choice, took that risk, and was punished for it.

2. Claiming nullsec is empty because Highsec Wardeccers stay in highsec is ********. Highsec Wardeccers stay in Highsec because other people stay in highsec. If you want to force (Which ruins the sandbox environment) to leave highsec, take away the ability to make ISK in highsec. IE Nerfing incursion payouts

3. Not every player fits stupidly bling **** in highsec more often than not it's just a T2 fitted ****. Wardeccers fit FAR more expensive **** to their ships.



Quote:
I suggest that corporations and alliances are limited to 5 war decs available.

This in effect means that large alliances cannot turn high sec into their own personal Null Sec, it means they have to go to Null Sec to get a target rich environment. It would also mean less combat in market hubs and less strain on the server



Forcing players down a linear path is game breaking to a Sandbox type game. Which is what you're trying to do. You intentionally trying to break a very dedicated core of players.


Quote:
Each corporation and alliance can only be declared war upon, 3 times. This prevents things like i.e Goonswarm being perma decked by every large griefer alliance in the game.


Lol, So if I don't want to be decs I'll just make three alt corps and have them dec my corp so I can't be decced at all. Good plan bro.


Quote:
For a corporation to declare war, they must have no fewer than 7 active members i.e 7 numbers. This would stop the alts of people who just like to **** mining corps off.


Um, what? The Aggressing corp has to have 7 members in order to dec? Or the Defending corp needs at least 7 players to be dec? Either way is flawed beyond belief.

his would in effect make "mercs" an actual play style as they would have to get out of hubs and look for their targets. I.e what real mercs do.

These changes would force so called high sec griefer "pvp pilots" out of high sec and into low/null and would enhance that side of the game. You can see my personal killboard and know i PvP in low/null. So this is not me whining. We have a low sec HQ and if people are stupid enuff to get caught by war targets, that's there issue. I am a PvP pilot, i do "real" PvP, not high sec griefing. Bottom line is, this needs to stop

I am just tired of new corps being slammed into the floor by griefer alliances and corps. It needs to stop and CCP need to do summit about it.


Yeah, you are an idiot. I don't care that you 'Know how to PVP in Low and Null" I've gone into Low and blown **** up before, it was fun. Doesn't mean I have any right to demand ****. And yeah you are totally whining the amount of times you called Mercs griefers makes that horrendously apparent.


TL;DR No, you're an idiot, and no.
#DeleteTheWeak
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2015-07-29 09:53:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Iam The Flash wrote:
Hello

Now before you all go off at me for being a "noob" and "getting ganked" - I have never been ganked in a barge, i have not been killed in empire except when fighting war targets. I am posting this for the benefit of bringing new players into EvE.

What's wrong with multiple war decs?

In short, a lot, but, this has a direct effect on Null Sec & Low Sec, to claim it doesn't is the height of stupidity, why go to null to find fights when u can join a high sec griefer alliance that has thousands of war decs and targets in every system, half of which can't fight back? Easy kills, easy money, let's do it! No. This needs to change.

Lol you think it effects Null Sec, You're An Idiot.

I'm afraid not, the direct proof is that Null Sec, is empty, we roam in there all the time and in low sec, the areas of the game are dead, because what's the point in risking ships in "actual pvp fights" with other pilots who are trying just as hard to kill you, when you can blow up faction fit newish player mission ships n make billions?

So what do u suggest?

I suggest that corporations and alliances are limited to 5 war decs available.

This in effect means that large alliances cannot turn high sec into there own personal Null Sec, it means they have to go to Null Sec to get a target rich environment. It would also mean less combat in market hubs and less strain on the servers.

So to the point i recommend thus:@

Each corporation and alliance has a 5 war dec limit. This means they can ONLY declare 5 wars at any one time.

Each corporation and alliance can only be declared war upon, 3 times. This prevents things like i.e Goonswarm being perma decked by every large griefer alliance in the game.

For a corporation to declare war, they must have no fewer than 7 active members i.e 7 numbers. This would stop the alts of people who just like to **** mining corps off.

This would in effect make "mercs" an actual play style as they would have to get out of hubs and look for their targets. I.e what real mercs do.

These changes would force so called high sec griefer "pvp pilots" out of high sec and into low/null and would enhance that side of the game. You can see my personal killboard and know i PvP in low/null. So this is not me whining. We have a low sec HQ and if people are stupid enuff to get caught by war targets, that's there issue. I am a PvP pilot, i do "real" PvP, not high sec griefing. Bottom line is, this needs to stop

I am just tired of new corps being slammed into the floor by griefer alliances and corps. It needs to stop and CCP need to do summit about it.



You guys are crying because we spanked you massively yesterday using only 2 people?

If is nto the system fault that your guys undock procurers in system at the same time we are finishign killing your sleipnirs and maelstroms, and they warp those procures to the same belt as the fight is going on.

Learn the BASICS of the game before you complain of anything.

One thing that shoudl be limited instead is the incompetence of players before they come to post. Just check the fit on that sleipnir you guys sent to fight us... you really think that someone so clueless about the game should emit an opinion about anything?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#7 - 2015-07-29 09:53:56 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Iam The Flash wrote:

Each corporation and alliance can only be declared war upon, 3 times. This prevents things like i.e Goonswarm being perma decked by every large griefer alliance in the game.

For a corporation to declare war, they must have no fewer than 7 active members i.e 7 numbers. This would stop the alts of people who just like to **** mining corps off.


Not saying anything about the rest of your post, but these parts of your idea are simply not good. The first is a way to pay to avoid all war declarations. The second one is just plain arbitrary and worthless.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#8 - 2015-07-29 11:42:08 UTC
People using the freedom they are intended to have is not a problem. Nevermind that your cute little suggestion would permit groups to setup alt corps to dec them and be completely immune.

This is just another pathetic, self interested idea to functionally delete PvP from highsec. Reported for redundancy with the other pathetic self interested ideas to functionally delete PvP from highsec.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Anthar Thebess
#9 - 2015-07-29 11:50:29 UTC
No problem in altorps declaring additional wardecs, simply limiting insta corp changing can be benefit.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#10 - 2015-07-29 11:51:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
-1

Putting a limit does not fix the multitude of problems abs limits the game play of merchandise groups

Not to mention in your system I can just Dec my friends and they Dec me now I'm immune
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#11 - 2015-07-29 12:04:53 UTC
If they can afford the decs then let them have as many as they want.

Its a two way street. Increasing your number of targets increases the amount of people that can team up and kill you. Whos fault is it really that you are so helpless? Its not like marmite only Dec noob corps...

What I would like to see changed though:

- No Corp hopping/joining aggressors during Dec
- A way for defenders to end the Dec early by being not awful.
- allies for both defenders and aggressors

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Suneai
Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation
Holy Arumbian Empire
#12 - 2015-07-29 12:40:07 UTC
Iam The Flash wrote:
Each corporation and alliance can only be declared war upon, 3 times. This prevents things like i.e Goonswarm being perma decked by every large griefer alliance in the game.

For a corporation to declare war, they must have no fewer than 7 active members i.e 7 numbers. This would stop the alts of people who just like to **** mining corps off.
That there would completely break the war system in EVE to an unusable state...

Corporations that don't want to be declared upon by serious people will simply get a selection of their corporation/alliance members to make alt characters, a number of corporations with them with the assigned minimum number of pilots and then declare war enough times to lock their main corporation out of further declarations.


A more suitable requirement would be that the declaring corporation/alliance needs to be of a proportional size to the target they are waging war against with the allocation being spread across all declarations... perhaps with a 40% buffer or something of that sort of arrangement.
So if say you have a corporation with 500 members, the limit for who could declare on you is either a single corporation/alliance with up to 700 members or a selection of different aggressors that when combined are within that pilot limit.


...though honestly, I'm fine with how it is now and would rather not shake up the war system.


As for your statement of low-sec/null being empty and the high-sec PVP alliances not wanting to risk travelling out to fight... we've had members of PIRAT, Marmite, Jelly and xXPIZZAXx all come visit out little island in low-sec for fights with the wars they declared on us. Even though they have to deal with some of the local pirates at the same time, it doesn't seem to discourage anyone who's targeted us.

Sure with all the wars happening at once, we get blockaded into a station every now and then. When that happens most of us simply turn to having a nice bit of banter on TS and playing on our alts while it's happening, or jump clone over to another part of space.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#13 - 2015-07-29 16:10:50 UTC
There are already ways to avoid wardecs, inconvenient but not hard. If you have a 200 man corp and marmite or some other corp or alliance dec's you it isnt a secret you know about it and if you you dont take appropriate steps to protect yourself then the problem is you, not the system.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#14 - 2015-07-29 19:23:57 UTC
my problem with this is that currently there is no incentive for a player to fit for PVP when missioning generally, and as such - are stupidly easy targets for a HS gank, and that is what HS kills nearly always are - straight up ganks, doesn't matter whether you suicide or not, it's a gank if the other player is hopelessly out-classed/outgunned

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
#15 - 2015-07-29 20:11:02 UTC
The only idea i liked seeing posted in the past year so far about making any change to war decs was posted by Tor Bushido.

Make it so that its more expensive for larger groups to dec smaller groups, and less expensive for smaller groups to dec larger groups.

Start with the 50 million standard fee maybe, and use increments....
a posible example could be like:

Agressor has 100 members(active or inactive) decs a group 50 man or smaller and has to pay 100 million Isk instead of 50

Same agressor dec's someone that has 200(twice their number) so it only costs 50million.....

just a thought.

To the OP......
-1
Mag's
Azn Empire
#16 - 2015-07-29 20:23:07 UTC
Iam The Flash wrote:
I am posting this for the benefit of bringing new players into EvE.
As it does no such thing, I'll say no thank you.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#17 - 2015-07-29 21:18:40 UTC
I could support some sort of disincentive to make declaring multiple wars, or wars by large entities against smaller entities, more expensive, but I don't support hard limits.

-1

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2015-07-29 22:23:10 UTC
A huge load of crap and I'm going to take it down.

Valkin Mordirc wrote:
I shouldn't be forced to move to null if I want to PvP. Simple as that. Are Mass Wardecs a problem?
Sorta kinda. Some limit needs to be placed, maybe. But when a corp is willing to put itself under the pressure of have over 5000+ Wartargets they are not really being Risk adverse as you imply.

Hisec grief deccers are the most risk averse of all players, save maybe suicide wankers.
When I see a grief deccer fight anywhere further than undock "safety zone" I may reconsider this evaluation, but in 1.5 years there haven't been a single case of that. Which means they are... chickens, basically.

Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Also the only reason mass wardecs happen is due to the increased warcost added years ago. No longer was War cheep. People needed to ban together pool isk in order to keep the warfund going. As more people joined Marmite, Forsaken and the such, the bigger the wallet got. The more the alliance could dec. With more people in the corp Merc Alliance could make Poco holding corps and defend them when needed. And take Poco's, making it again, more money to go to war.

Gooby please, I can personally, as in single-handedly, keep half the marmite wardecs funded. War is not cheap, it's basically borderline free.

Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Next off, Highsec Mercs are not griefers. They paid isk to dec you. You were idiotic enough to think you could go mission in your battleship. If a pilot can afford a battleship how are they defenseless? How can they not 'fight back'?

Players who die in highsec in a Mission fit Battleships are not weak, they simply refuse to fight back, they are weak because they allow themselves to be weak. Highsec Mercs are not griefers, they simply use a mechanic in game. If that is griefing then PL taking BR is griefing because they ruined 'Hero's Game'.

That is the biggest bs in the whole post and the most cancerous line of thought seen ever.
Fundamentally, eve combat PvP is "bigger sp blob always win". It's kinda obvious that people will refuse to fight back when there is not even if they can afford to, because there isn't even a shred of chance to win. If you are even close to winning, the griefer gets 10 neutral logi on him, docks up, or burns and runs away sacrificing a neutral jammer on you. Those are options you cannot fit back against no matter what, so people don't, and they are smarter than you, idiot.

Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Next off, Wardec is not profitable without a contractor to pay for services rendered, sometimes you get lucky and find a faction fitted Rattler or a Dead Space fitted Golem but those are far and few between and more often than not in my case, usally ger repurposed to my own ships rather than sold.

"Getting free ships isn't profitable" (c) Idiot.


Valkin Mordirc wrote:

1. How is 'your' PVP different from mine? Why do you consider yourself so special? Because you targets shoot back? How is it my fault that some jackwagon would rather self-destruct than fight me when I catch him? He had every option to fit for PVP but he chose not to. He made the choice, took that risk, and was punished for it.

2. Claiming nullsec is empty because Highsec Wardeccers stay in highsec is ********. Highsec Wardeccers stay in Highsec because other people stay in highsec. If you want to force (Which ruins the sandbox environment) to leave highsec, take away the ability to make ISK in highsec. IE Nerfing incursion payouts

3. Not every player fits stupidly bling **** in highsec more often than not it's just a T2 fitted ****. Wardeccers fit FAR more expensive **** to their ships.

1. Because "jackwagon" has less SP and thus can't win no matter what he fits. Self-destruction is his only option when he's caught. He takes it, he's smart. He doesn't, he's an idiot. He can't win so he shouldn't fight.

2. "Nerf hisec" is already done. Many times, in fact. Not enough for the griefers though, having free CONCORD removal tool at their disposal they are just stupid and lazy.

3. Because they are guaranteed to win due to eve faulty combat pvp system, they can afford to superfit their non-profitable ships with their non-profitable wars income *sarcasm*

Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2015-07-29 22:26:46 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
People using the freedom they are intended to have is not a problem. Nevermind that your cute little suggestion would permit groups to setup alt corps to dec them and be completely immune.

This is just another pathetic, self interested idea to functionally delete PvP from highsec. Reported for redundancy with the other pathetic self interested ideas to functionally delete PvP from highsec.


hisec has too much, too free, and too easy griefing (it's not PvP when it's griefing).

When we remove griefing so it becomes actually PvP, then it will be redundant. Until then, we need hundreds more threads like this.
Alana Charen-Teng
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-07-29 22:58:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Alana Charen-Teng
Aww, Highsec too dangerous for you? The fact that you use the term "griefer alliance" to refer to highsec wardec organizations betrays your carebear bias and invalidates any opinion you have. But the tears are great.
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