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Where are our PermaDeath 20mill SP toons? Any updates/info?

Author
Jenshae Chiroptera
#21 - 2015-07-21 15:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
stoicfaux wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
"Hey Code buddy, pod me."
"Why?"
"Need a new name and character those carebears don't know."
Meh, just ban these characters from hi-sec. ....
...
"Why?"

- "I need a new toon not KOS to Provi"
- "I need a new spy toon that hasn't had its cover blown"
- "I need a new toon unknown to Low Sec ratters"

On and on.
It quickly evades reputation. So, expect most of the corps recruitment requirements to start at 30M+ SP. Then watch how miserable newbies become.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-07-21 15:26:38 UTC
I never understood the concept and how this would benefit EvE or players. Death and immortality are the foundation of EvE.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Velarra
#23 - 2015-07-21 15:46:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Velarra
Earlier in this thread someone mentioned the fanciful idea of second servers. Which can only be genuinely and seriously boo-hissed vehemently on account of Eve being single server based, baring test servers and CEVE.

That said, for the sake of throwing darts at a wall bereft of even an actual target.

Anyone remember https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetarion ?

Yeah. If you really wanted to fantasize about something involving a second server, - I'd suggest randomizing every system in eve on a new short cycle server. Re: locations, resource levels, disparity levels. Every 6-8 months? Reset it again. Keep score relative to various silly metrics. Hell, remove stargates during 1 cycle, and give people the option to use only WH's and cyno's.

Small problem: The off chance it might compete with Eve and bleed/split the TQ population. ;)
stoicfaux
#24 - 2015-07-21 15:54:37 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
"Hey Code buddy, pod me."
"Why?"
"Need a new name and character those carebears don't know."
Meh, just ban these characters from hi-sec. ....
...
"Why?"

- "I need a new toon not KOS to Provi"
- "I need a new spy toon that hasn't had its cover blown"
- "I need a new toon unknown to Low Sec ratters"

On and on.
It quickly evades reputation. So, expect most of the corps recruitment requirements to start at 30M+ SP. Then watch how miserable newbies become.

Just flag perma-death toons as perma-death toons. I imagine most folks would automatically reject perma-death toons from recruitment, or at least limit their access to corp/alliance positions, intel, etc. They would be KoS to most everyone in null on principle (NBSI is a bit defacto so not much change there.) Marking perma-death clones as obvious perma-death clones would (partially) address your concerns, no?

There could also be "gray" perma-death clones. Clones linked to "mains". Newbies could play the game in static clones while leveling up their main. Established players could dabble in risky null activities, etc. It would help prevent reputation avoidance techniques. Lore wise, given what the Broker was able to do with clones, there's not a real limit here.

Another idea is that these perma-death clones can only be created by Sov holders (e.g. special clone vats in stations) instead of from pirate factions. Thus such clones would automatically become members of the owning corp/allance which would reduce reputation avoidance to a degree (and no, they can't leave the alliance/corp except feet first.[1])


OTOH, the game already has a history of spies, so would disposable perma-death clones really change anything?



[1] Given the nature of space death, "leaving feet first" would probably have been replaced with a more applicable metaphor.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

stoicfaux
#25 - 2015-07-21 16:06:40 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
I never understood the concept and how this would benefit EvE or players. Death and immortality are the foundation of EvE.


True.

Perma-death clones are basically a way for people to get their feet wet in null with low risk, i.e. a carebear can risk getting their perma-death clone podded in null without losing any skill training time on their main, which should encourage carebears to make the jump to null corps/alliances, and the social aspect of player orgs would help make the subs sticky."

Perma-death clones (with no or capped skillpoints) could replace trial accounts as well. When you sub a trial account, your perma-death clone becomes a real clone and is able to gain skillpoints normally.

From the player perspective, keeping a perma-death clone alive would be an Ironman challenge that some people might enjoy. CCP could have certain content that is only available to perma-death clones. (Space radiation prevents normal capsuleers from entering a particular system (due to sci-fi magic reaons,) thus you're forced to use perma-death clones which are hardened against the radiation. People who can keep their perma-death clones alive longer to skill up, would have an advantage (but could just as easily lose that advantage permanently.)

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Velarra
#26 - 2015-07-21 16:16:25 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Perma-death clones (with no or capped skillpoints) could replace trial accounts as well. When you sub a trial account, your perma-death clone becomes a real clone and is able to gain skillpoints normally.



So anyone could make a fresh 20m SP alt account rather then train up a Power of 2 / buddy account for their alt?
stoicfaux
#27 - 2015-07-21 16:26:52 UTC
Make perma-death clones immune to jump fatigue. It would be a boon for logistics types, but aggressors could attack enemy logistics to real effect.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#28 - 2015-07-21 18:15:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
"Hey Code buddy, pod me."
"Why?"
"Need a new name and character those carebears don't know."


Yeah the core concept is so ridiculously open to abuse that it would have to hedged about by such an equally ridiculous number of special rules and exceptions to stop abuse that it makes the concept basically unusable.

Presumably CCP have decided to prioritise ideas that might actually work instead.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#29 - 2015-07-21 18:59:49 UTC
Wacktopia wrote:
I want to dislike this idea but part of me likes the thought of new players rolling some toons to practice things and throw away.

People say "you can fly tackle and be effective in week 1" - and it's true - but I'm not sure new players always see it that way. Perhaps if they could yolo into the action with some serious skillpoints, even if the result is to die in a fire they would care less about dying and more about playing.

I can see the obvious abuse cases of rolling toons to gank with, throw away, rinse repeat - that would need to be handled in some way.

Perhaps.... perhaps this is The Thing New Player Experience Needs.

I don't even like to imagine it's intended purpose is meant to just be a benefit for a newbie... let alone calling it a "toon".
If it's designed around the idea it'll be some newbie play thing, it'll likely just be fail and not worth anyone's time.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#30 - 2015-07-21 22:12:14 UTC
They can do this but liven up the game a little bit.

Give every account a 4th slot for the permadeath toon.

And make that slot disappear from the account forever when that permadeath toon gets killed.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#31 - 2015-07-21 22:40:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
You know what. I feel opposed to this idea, but maybe let it be a thing. Just don't give new permanent accounts up to ******* cruiser 4 like some numbnut asked for. Maybe the racial frigate and weapons/ewar to a point. The only reason someone suggests cruiser 4 is because they want an alt for the current meta but just don't want to bother to train it.

Give someone cruiser 4 to start and they will wonder "well why don't I already have a cruiser??" Next thing you know people are requesting instant into battleships. We already have it better than when the game started, smart people (like me) who find deals for free crap when they start the game for the first time and even getting cerebral accelerators (works on newbros only) to speed training.


Handouts are given if you read before you start the game and find the starter deals instead of just buying a month. Then there are buddy codes and more freebees.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2015-07-21 22:48:04 UTC
Im actually surprised this hasnt been mentioned/thought of.

Guys


You really think ccps gonna let us just recycle the permadeath toons and give them to us for free??

Lol


I see these costing about 2 PLEX for each. 20mill sp. Greed is good.

Tell me im wrong
Jenshae Chiroptera
#33 - 2015-07-21 22:57:19 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
... Just flag perma-death toons as perma-death toons. ...
You seem to be coming up with a lot of band-aids for a bad idea that feels contrived ... are you a Fozzie alt? P

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#34 - 2015-07-22 04:52:41 UTC
there was never a plan it was just an idea. though there might be a plan.. the drifter thing could easily be setting this up

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

OverlordY
Interspan
#35 - 2015-07-22 09:48:31 UTC
Just what eve needs...... more suicide alts in catalysts... ...
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#36 - 2015-07-22 10:58:14 UTC
OverlordY wrote:
Just what eve needs...... more suicide alts in catalysts... ...

I don't know. It depends how they limited it quite honestly. They really didn't mention much about intention, soo...
I'm all for permadeath, have played games with it before, it works, just depends how it's done. To help newbies somehow experience this game, it'll likely be bad. But access by newbies is fine I would think. But really it would need to be something that works with EVE, not just a crutch for something, nor grandiose in intent. There is no real dialog with CCP about it, so no idea.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#37 - 2015-07-22 11:28:34 UTC
Just bring back SP loss upon death, but don't tie it to upgrading the clone like the old system. The complaint I remember seeing most was that people didn't like to have to pay and remember to upgrade their clone each time.

Also then make the pods interdiction nullified and give them a slower align time as mentioned by Rise in that video.

If your going to bring back consequences for death, then have the confidence to apply this to everyone; this half method suggested will be a terrible idea and open to all kinds of abuse. Bring back consequences for pod death to everyone.
stoicfaux
#38 - 2015-07-22 12:11:07 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
... Just flag perma-death toons as perma-death toons. ...
You seem to be coming up with a lot of band-aids for a bad idea that feels contrived ... are you a Fozzie alt? P

Of course not. But there will be a 35 day cycle time before you can reload a dead perma-death toon slot, assuming you a use a scripted Medical Growth Clone station module (MGC).

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

stoicfaux
#39 - 2015-07-22 12:14:22 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
"Hey Code buddy, pod me."
"Why?"
"Need a new name and character those carebears don't know."


Yeah the core concept is so ridiculously open to abuse that it would have to hedged about by such an equally ridiculous number of special rules and exceptions to stop abuse that it makes the concept basically unusable.

Presumably CCP have decided to prioritise ideas that might actually work instead.

Abuse would be the least of their worries. The storm to weather would be the first time CCP does a perma-death clone reimbursement that changes the outcome of a sov war.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

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