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Bobaa Fett
Deep Axion
#41 - 2015-07-17 15:51:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Bobaa Fett
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Bobaa Fett wrote:
I never said dead, but it sure could use some beefing up, especially mechanics for those who don't choose to fly with masses. If they can tweak sov mechanics they could do the same for us, is all I'm saying.

Nullsec has been so broken for so long it needed a complete rewrite. Lowsec just needs a few tweaks. It's a mistake to treat different areas of space as independent from each other. Lowsec is already being impacted positively by the sov changes (Test/Brave restaging) and we'll probably see more movement once the peasants wake up and notice their huts are burning down.

It's more or less stating the obvious to say lowsec needs some tweaking and I doubt many people will argue that they don't want more content. But making vague 'please buff x ccp' requests and then muttering about risk-reward isn't particularly constructive, which is why I linked those Gorski articles earlier. Even without being a pure lowsec CSM he's already putting forward concrete ideas for changes which will benefit the residents and Sugar has been doing it for a while. If you have viable proposals for gameplay changes, write them up and post in F&I. Grumble threadnaughts in GD are usually just a massive waste of time for everyone involved. If a request for a rebalance or buff to increase player content hinges upon increased ISK faucets it's usually a sign it's a bad idea.
Bobaa Fett wrote:
This isn't about us. This all about the perspective of the new subscriber

It's always about the newbies. Except when it isn't, because dramatic changes to lowsec mechanics will affect everyone and the people most likely to benefit will be vets. There's an open topic inviting discussion about the NPE here.
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
I agree something should be done with low-sec although I'm really unsure what that would be.

I'm really unsure as to what CCP can do with low-sec but I do agree other than us organising stuff they need to 'iterate' on it in some way. I'll stop mumbling now. Smile

Tbh this isn't an unreasonable attitude and at least you''re honest enough to admit you'd like to see change but haven't got a clear idea what should be adjusted.


Dramatic changes are already happening that are meant to appeal to a new player, to include player-created gates and being able to anchor structures anywhere with small limitations, rather than just at a moon. They have some really great changes coming within the year and the next, That's not the problem.

This isn't meant as a negative attack, but to me it seems CCP has a track record for submitting to the masses so that they can keep subscriptions, just as any business should, but in my experience, focusing on changes for the masses has an adverse effect for the independent thinker, and in video games, everyone is an independent thinker to a degree. Everyone will eventually want to be able to do things on his/her own. There is a degree of content that is rewarding to that, but it sure isn't as glorified.

My point is that focusing on Sov space mechanics and advertising them is great, but they've been doing it for a long time now, and for those who don't play in Sov space, it won't have any appeal. Lowsec hasn't seem that kind of attention in a while. Why is this bad? Because it changes the sandbox mentality to "I'm going to play in a place that is getting attention from developers" - something linear.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2015-07-17 15:52:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
What lowsec needs is more people UNDOCKING ... we were on a public roam with T1 ships yesterday at EvE prime time and except snuff box nobody wanted to fight us .. shame on you Brave Ugh.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#43 - 2015-07-17 15:57:03 UTC
Bubba Ovaert wrote:
All lowsec needs is bubbles.


and Bombs
Bobaa Fett
Deep Axion
#44 - 2015-07-17 15:59:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Bobaa Fett
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Bobaa Fett wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
It's weird to see him talk about the lack of proper guidance, while at the same time he does not want to guide anyone.

The corpname adds a lot to the irony here.

We can put it on the community to help keep players in the game all we want, but last I checked, we didn't work for CCP and we're not getting paid to keep new player in the game.

Then I guess we should all stop recruiting and let CCP do that for us? How about caring more about the game? Because you do not. You want change to happen for your own good, but not for the game. If you really cared you wouldn't dismiss the most reasonable and efficient of all options: Doing it yourself!

Seriously, your excuse is shameful. You want change, you could change it, you do not want to put effort into it.

Evidence so far hints at you being nothing but a carebear.


Angelica Dreamstar

Bobaa Fett
that's after 6 months of pvp on this account. We live in lowsec and have always lived in lowsec.

The Board of Education
If small-gang pvp interests someone, then you can contactMaxemus Payne


I have helped new players with fits, I've even given players entire skill-training paths and possibilities. I've done more than my part to keep people in the game, but I'm one person. Even as a corp, we have 5 people active at any given time and like it that way. We might have 35 players total, bringing the corp ranking to 670. We don't have an opportunity to tag on high-isk super capitals frequently either so maintaining a decent ranking with...5 people in cruiser hulls isn't easy - but it is how we prefer to play because we have the freedom to role the way we want to role, and are confident that the person flying beside us knows what they're doing when things get hazy.

We shouldn't have to buckle to the recruit-hard, recruit-many mentality to have fun, this game is about choice. As of now, for a new player, there aren't very many perceived choices in lowsec, and that can be helped by in-game advertisement of lowsec mechanics - not changing mechanics that aren't broken.

What do you see when you log in? Sovereignty this, and sovereignty that. Well, guess what's going to draw the new player? Massive fleet battles? Or sitting and waiting for an optimal fight in a sector of space that will lessen your ability to move between systems? We need a slight touch to keep people interested in low-sec living. That is what I'm bringing fourth. Not suggesting massive changes, or really....any huge changes in mechanics! This is just basic marketing...
Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
#45 - 2015-07-17 16:15:39 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Bubba Ovaert wrote:
All lowsec needs is bubbles.


and Bombs


Lowsec already has bombs dawg
Niriel Greez
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2015-07-17 16:36:48 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
New player argument spotted. Stopped reading.

If you want more new players in low, then recruit and teach them. You can make a difference! That's the best way to go!


Why does HS miner trash feel the need to comment on LS?
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2015-07-17 16:56:19 UTC
Niriel Greez wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
New player argument spotted. Stopped reading.

If you want more new players in low, then recruit and teach them. You can make a difference! That's the best way to go!


Why does HS miner trash feel the need to comment on LS?


Because the new player argument is trash. Nothing will help new players into lowsec beside time and teaching. Time prevent them from being new players by definition and teaching them is something a **** load of people are just not willing to do because of whatever reason they think is good. OP for example seem to think his corp rank on Zkill is important which lead me to believe his corp don't want a red killboard which prevent them from recruiting more player who could learn from them and become low sec citizens. Best part of the issue is that MANY corp don't want to have to deal with new players making the new player mistakes. When you put that together, it means there are too many well setup hunter in the field and no new blood being brought to replace the one you completely over-killed.

As long as people are not willing to accept that the zone where you can but nearly as much pressure as you want on anyone entering in said zone, new players who weren't given the "how to" of this zone will fear it because it will always look hopeless to them. Mountain of ISK won't matter if they can't get the damn thing safe before getting blown up and even if many people go to low-sec without getting blown up, the newbie who never went before sure as hell don't know how he's supposed to manage that. For all he knows, there might be just as much circulation as in high-sec on gates and will get killed as soon as he steps in. If nobody teach him how different it is and how to deal with the reality of low sec as opposed to his bad beliefs, you are absolutely basing all your hope of him becoming a resident and part of the content on him potentially going against what would be the logic thinking based on what he knows.

Everyone who's been to low sec knows it's not as terrible as some people make it out to be. Gates aren't all camped 23.5/7, you don't get shot at every damn minutes and so on but we all have been there. The newbie by definition is fresh out of his spawning school. He hasn't seen anything from the game. All he know is when he try to jump some gate, he gets a poop up telling him player will be able to shoot him without regular support.

As long as the majority of low sec corp keep recruiting high SP player only to keep on their high end PvP venture, they are all **** out of luck for new "content" as they will always see the few they already are. People need to realise that saying "someone else will do it" also mean that other someone else might be thinking the exact same thing...
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2015-07-17 17:01:35 UTC
Bobaa Fett wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Bobaa Fett wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
It's weird to see him talk about the lack of proper guidance, while at the same time he does not want to guide anyone.

The corpname adds a lot to the irony here.

We can put it on the community to help keep players in the game all we want, but last I checked, we didn't work for CCP and we're not getting paid to keep new player in the game.

Then I guess we should all stop recruiting and let CCP do that for us? How about caring more about the game? Because you do not. You want change to happen for your own good, but not for the game. If you really cared you wouldn't dismiss the most reasonable and efficient of all options: Doing it yourself!

Seriously, your excuse is shameful. You want change, you could change it, you do not want to put effort into it.

Evidence so far hints at you being nothing but a carebear.


Angelica Dreamstar

Bobaa Fett
that's after 6 months of pvp on this account. We live in lowsec and have always lived in lowsec.

The Board of Education
If small-gang pvp interests someone, then you can contactMaxemus Payne


I have helped new players with fits, I've even given players entire skill-training paths and possibilities. I've done more than my part to keep people in the game, but I'm one person. Even as a corp, we have 5 people active at any given time and like it that way. We might have 35 players total, bringing the corp ranking to 670. We don't have an opportunity to tag on high-isk super capitals frequently either so maintaining a decent ranking with...5 people in cruiser hulls isn't easy - but it is how we prefer to play because we have the freedom to role the way we want to role, and are confident that the person flying beside us knows what they're doing when things get hazy.

We shouldn't have to buckle to the recruit-hard, recruit-many mentality to have fun, this game is about choice. As of now, for a new player, there aren't very many perceived choices in lowsec, and that can be helped by in-game advertisement of lowsec mechanics - not changing mechanics that aren't broken.

What do you see when you log in? Sovereignty this, and sovereignty that. Well, guess what's going to draw the new player? Massive fleet battles? Or sitting and waiting for an optimal fight in a sector of space that will lessen your ability to move between systems? We need a slight touch to keep people interested in low-sec living. That is what I'm bringing fourth. Not suggesting massive changes, or really....any huge changes in mechanics! This is just basic marketing...

THAT's a proper response, putting it into a completely different light. And my killboard is, from my memory, filled with awoxing idiots who shouldn't have ran corporations.

I can't disagree about what CCP currently is advertising for. I do know that they are baiting for the weak minded who want to hide behind big groups to feel powerful. Lowsec is for smarter people. Apparently it seems that smarter people aren't being attracted to the game, as we can see from the lowlifes of reddit coming here demanding it easier or whatever it is these people want.

Hell, I know no solution. The best I can come up with is "do it yourself" because that's proven to be effective. Throwing more ISK at lowsec is pointless, really, because that doesn't give reason to jump into what is being rumoured as "deathtrap".

On the other hand could it be as easy as rolling a new char and trying to gather new players with "hey guys I wanna go get somethrills and see what happens, who's with me?", though then the carebears come and grief you about how you want to get them all killed etc.

I guess there is one thing CCP could do. That's banning all those carebear assholes who grief new players.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Bobaa Fett
Deep Axion
#49 - 2015-07-17 17:02:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Bobaa Fett
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Bobaa Fett wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Bobaa Fett wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
It's weird to see him talk about the lack of proper guidance, while at the same time he does not want to guide anyone.

The corpname adds a lot to the irony here.

We can put it on the community to help keep players in the game all we want, but last I checked, we didn't work for CCP and we're not getting paid to keep new player in the game.

Then I guess we should all stop recruiting and let CCP do that for us? How about caring more about the game? Because you do not. You want change to happen for your own good, but not for the game. If you really cared you wouldn't dismiss the most reasonable and efficient of all options: Doing it yourself!

Seriously, your excuse is shameful. You want change, you could change it, you do not want to put effort into it.

Evidence so far hints at you being nothing but a carebear.


Angelica Dreamstar

Bobaa Fett
that's after 6 months of pvp on this account. We live in lowsec and have always lived in lowsec.

The Board of Education
If small-gang pvp interests someone, then you can contactMaxemus Payne


I have helped new players with fits, I've even given players entire skill-training paths and possibilities. I've done more than my part to keep people in the game, but I'm one person. Even as a corp, we have 5 people active at any given time and like it that way. We might have 35 players total, bringing the corp ranking to 670. We don't have an opportunity to tag on high-isk super capitals frequently either so maintaining a decent ranking with...5 people in cruiser hulls isn't easy - but it is how we prefer to play because we have the freedom to role the way we want to role, and are confident that the person flying beside us knows what they're doing when things get hazy.

We shouldn't have to buckle to the recruit-hard, recruit-many mentality to have fun, this game is about choice. As of now, for a new player, there aren't very many perceived choices in lowsec, and that can be helped by in-game advertisement of lowsec mechanics - not changing mechanics that aren't broken.

What do you see when you log in? Sovereignty this, and sovereignty that. Well, guess what's going to draw the new player? Massive fleet battles? Or sitting and waiting for an optimal fight in a sector of space that will lessen your ability to move between systems? We need a slight touch to keep people interested in low-sec living. That is what I'm bringing fourth. Not suggesting massive changes, or really....any huge changes in mechanics! This is just basic marketing...

THAT's a proper response, putting it into a completely different light. And my killboard is, from my memory, filled with awoxing idiots who shouldn't have ran corporations.

I can't disagree about what CCP currently is advertising for. I do know that they are baiting for the weak minded who want to hide behind big groups to feel powerful. Lowsec is for smarter people. Apparently it seems that smarter people aren't being attracted to the game, as we can see from the lowlifes of reddit coming here demanding it easier or whatever it is these people want.

Hell, I know no solution. The best I can come up with is "do it yourself" because that's proven to be effective. Throwing more ISK at lowsec is pointless, really, because that doesn't give reason to jump into what is being rumoured as "deathtrap".

On the other hand could it be as easy as rolling a new char and trying to gather new players with "hey guys I wanna go get somethrills and see what happens, who's with me?", though then the carebears come and grief you about how you want to get them all killed etc.

I guess there is one thing CCP could do. That's banning all those carebear assholes who grief new players.



I don't know a true solution either, but I did edit my main post to clarify my points and mitigate confusion. I don't want changes to mechanics that aren't broken. No one in lowsec wants that. What we do want is for lowsec to have more consistent activity, which means glorifying it more than it is - somehow. They have the right idea with sovereignty changes and advertisement. PvP and PvE in lowsec certainly isn't dead, but it sure as hell could use a kick in the arse.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2015-07-17 17:04:29 UTC
Niriel Greez wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
New player argument spotted. Stopped reading.

If you want more new players in low, then recruit and teach them. You can make a difference! That's the best way to go!


Why does HS miner trash feel the need to comment on LS?
Oh wow, I feel soooo attacked now! That was such a witty and hurtful comment, I really don't know what to do with myself now! Lol Am I forced to write a come-back? Is this how I should behave now? Feel insulted and counter with equal nonsense? Lol

Thanks for the laugh. *pats head* Big smile

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Bobaa Fett
Deep Axion
#51 - 2015-07-17 17:25:50 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
What lowsec needs is more people UNDOCKING ... we were on a public roam with T1 ships yesterday at EvE prime time and except snuff box nobody wanted to fight us .. shame on you Brave Ugh.


I have to agree with this entirely. Most people in lowsec will only fight when the fight appears in their favor. You just have to find ways to bait their attention IE not a bait drake. :/
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2015-07-17 17:28:36 UTC
Bobaa Fett wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
What lowsec needs is more people UNDOCKING ... we were on a public roam with T1 ships yesterday at EvE prime time and except snuff box nobody wanted to fight us .. shame on you Brave Ugh.


I have to agree with this entirely. Most people in lowsec will only fight when the fight appears in their favor. You just have to find ways to bait their attention IE not a bait drake. :/

Have you tried mining alts? Yes, seriously. Mining alt in belt + properly timed LogOn-trap = Win. That means testing, of course. Like counting the seconds a 3.0AU/s ship needs from the gate to the belt, for example, to time it properly with logging in.

I love this, because of all the thought that has to be put into it to make it work!

BUT HEY I AM ONLY A MINER RIGHT? Lol

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Bobaa Fett
Deep Axion
#53 - 2015-07-17 17:33:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Bobaa Fett
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Bobaa Fett wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
What lowsec needs is more people UNDOCKING ... we were on a public roam with T1 ships yesterday at EvE prime time and except snuff box nobody wanted to fight us .. shame on you Brave Ugh.


I have to agree with this entirely. Most people in lowsec will only fight when the fight appears in their favor. You just have to find ways to bait their attention IE not a bait drake. :/

Have you tried mining alts? Yes, seriously. Mining alt in belt + properly timed LogOn-trap = Win. That means testing, of course. Like counting the seconds a 3.0AU/s ship needs from the gate to the belt, for example, to time it properly with logging in.

I love this, because of all the thought that has to be put into it to make it work!

BUT HEY I AM ONLY A MINER RIGHT? Lol

Definitely a thing. That's why I'm always paranoid. You have to be in LS.

I've seen Siesta Inc. do just that firsthand before we became friends, but I knew what was coming from experience. I also fly skirmishers a lot so I can still engage safely and escape. Mining bait is very effective, especially against brawlers and inexperienced pvp pilots. They see mining ships as an 'easy, risk-free target' Lowsec pilots get bored easy, and boredom in EvE is a dangerous, self destructive thing Cry
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2015-07-17 17:40:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Dreamstar
Bobaa Fett wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Bobaa Fett wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
What lowsec needs is more people UNDOCKING ... we were on a public roam with T1 ships yesterday at EvE prime time and except snuff box nobody wanted to fight us .. shame on you Brave Ugh.


I have to agree with this entirely. Most people in lowsec will only fight when the fight appears in their favor. You just have to find ways to bait their attention IE not a bait drake. :/

Have you tried mining alts? Yes, seriously. Mining alt in belt + properly timed LogOn-trap = Win. That means testing, of course. Like counting the seconds a 3.0AU/s ship needs from the gate to the belt, for example, to time it properly with logging in.

I love this, because of all the thought that has to be put into it to make it work!

BUT HEY I AM ONLY A MINER RIGHT? Lol

Definitely a thing. That's why I'm always paranoid. You have to be in LS.

I've seen Siesta Inc. do just that firsthand before we became friends, but I knew what was coming from experience. I also fly skirmishers a lot so I can still engage safely and escape. Mining bait is very effective, especially against brawlers and inexperienced pvp pilots. They see mining ships as an 'easy, risk-free target' Lowsec pilots get bored easy, and boredom in EvE is a dangerous, self destructive thing Cry

Btw you really should take a look at my thread, which I linked further above. Maybe talk to people who live in low, people you do not know yet (!), about the situation. Gather a few more differing perspectives. Something. :)

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Darth Terona
Fancypants Inc
Pandemic Horde
#55 - 2015-07-17 18:05:31 UTC
After seeing what ccp did with sentry drones and sov, I want them to stay far far far far away from my home


This is a problem we lowsec peeps can fix ourselves
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2015-07-17 18:08:06 UTC
Darth Terona wrote:
After seeing what ccp did with sentry drones and sov, I want them to stay far far far far away from my home


This is a problem we lowsec peeps can fix ourselves

We agree! Smile
Do you need a hub-station with modules and ships set up somewhere? Big smile

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Darth Terona
Fancypants Inc
Pandemic Horde
#57 - 2015-07-17 18:14:32 UTC
Lowsec is the Wild West. Complete with outlaws and sheriffs, fortune and famine.
No need for government intervention or development.

We're not in the main stream news, or at the forefront of the latest and greatest.

And we don't need to be. The changes ccp makes elsewhere are felt enuff.
Spurty
#58 - 2015-07-17 18:33:15 UTC
There's not even decent rats in low sec.

Low sec needs to be its own thing.

Not "slighty tougher highsec" or "watered down null sec". It needs to have a purpose.

Could be "You only get rats that drop these mods / implants / pirate faction BPCs here". Anything that is worth the first 20 tries failing.

I'm on the fence with regards to bubbles. I think those should be allowed even in Highsec.

It's not as if dropping bubbles causes agro.

Biggest problem with lowsec is that it's really the first place you can go when you can "fly that nicer ship" where you really can't take it without some friends.

Making friends in EVE is actually very hard due to people working 'very hard' to not actually be your friend.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
#59 - 2015-07-17 19:03:17 UTC
Commander Spurty wrote:
There's not even decent rats in low sec.

Low sec needs to be its own thing.

Not "slighty tougher highsec" or "watered down null sec". It needs to have a purpose.

Could be "You only get rats that drop these mods / implants / pirate faction BPCs here". Anything that is worth the first 20 tries failing..


I could be wrong but I thought Mordu's Legion ships only spawn in low sec?

There are juicy rat areas in low, you just gotta figure out where they are. Some regions are better than others.

Speaking of, CCP turn the damn volume up on the Mordu's ship spawns in low sec, haven't seen one in weeks!
Darth Terona
Fancypants Inc
Pandemic Horde
#60 - 2015-07-17 19:06:45 UTC
Commander Spurty wrote:


I'm on the fence with regards to bubbles. I think those should be allowed even in Highsec.

It's not as if dropping bubbles causes agro.

Biggest problem with lowsec is that it's really the first place you can go when you can "fly that nicer ship" where you really can't take it without some friends.

Making friends in EVE is actually very hard due to people working 'very hard' to not actually be your friend.



What?

1. No bubbles in lowsec or highsec period.

2. Fancy ship first place what? Friends huh? What?

3. Easy as hell to make friends in eve. Try harder.