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More Content for Lowsec players/corporations/alliances? Advertise it.

Author
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-07-17 13:57:08 UTC
Bubba Ovaert wrote:
All lowsec needs is bubbles.


no it doesnt, leave them in null

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#22 - 2015-07-17 14:10:35 UTC
Bobaa Fett wrote:
So in the past months I've noticed that only more established and experienced players, corporations, and alliances, live in lowsec space.


Not entirely true, but lowsec is actually pretty good for midsize alliances. L5s and FW can be vastly more profitable than anomalies, you just need the standings/alts/know how to exploit them as opposed to just being given a secure trickle of ISK.

Given how much work FozzieSov is turning out to be, only the largest entities are going to have enough people to make holding space almost worth it. With that in mind, Lowsec ends up being a sanctuary for smaller entities. The logistics of living there aren't as bad as deep null, and moving and using caps is arguably easier.

Brave is probably better off in Placid than they were in Fountain, for example.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Captain Awkward
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2015-07-17 14:24:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Awkward
Bobaa Fett wrote:

...

What I think can improve this experience is additional incentive to live in lowsec, something that makes a new player say to him/herself "I want to live and play in lowsec" from the very beginning that outweighs their fear of the high risk -
...

I think what players (espacially older ones) often forget is how bad a T1 ship with T1 high-mid-lows and T1 drones in combination with bad skills actually is.

PvP wise, its easy to find some role in a fleet that a new player can do even with low skills. And since PvP isnt about ISK/hour its no burden to bring a new player who is only of little benefit to the group. The more the better.

But I think you are refering to PvE content to lure players into lowsec. Losing a BC is a major loss for a newb. But what is he going to do in a Cruiser that is barely able to bring 150 dps to the grid and cant tank anything.

PvE wise, there is not mutch a new player can do but stay in highsec for the first couple of month. Unless he finds someone who is willing to carry him.
Bobaa Fett
Deep Axion
Honorable Third Party
#24 - 2015-07-17 14:29:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Bobaa Fett
Baaldor wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
all the time ive lived in lowsec ive never had an issue finding content, maybe you should move to a different area? the most capital kills i ever had were in lowsec, some of the best fleet fights were in lowsec, solo is great and i usually holiday in lowsec for solo frig fights, i personally think lowsec is fckin awesome


This^^^

I read this kind of threads stating lo-sec is dead, solo is dead, and wonder where this is coming from. Truly I am thinking I am missing something and get all sad panda because the area I had a lot of fun living in lo-sec off and on over the years is ..dead?

From the days of October snow, Tiller, Miz etc etc to the present, you have some quality folks like Neg10, MOD, Black Rabbits just to name a few that seem to find content and maintain their presence for years. Now I know for a fact, these folks just don't live there to be bored. They are like any of us that need some sort of engagement to get the blood flowing and justify the time and money to play this game.

I would like to see some folks that are firmly established inlo-sec to chime in. I am far from an seasoned lo-sec dweller, but have hit the -10ish a few times and lived that way for a while.


I never said dead, but it sure could use some beefing up, especially mechanics for those who don't choose to fly with masses. If they can tweak sov mechanics they could do the same for us, is all I'm saying.

We've been in lowsec for years too. https://zkillboard.com/corporation/989705986/ we don't do too badly with 5 people online at a given time.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#25 - 2015-07-17 14:40:37 UTC
Captain Awkward wrote:

I think what players (espacially older ones) often forget is how bad a T1 ship with T1 high-mid-lows and T1 drones in combination with bad skills actually is.

PvP wise, its easy to find some role in a fleet that a new player can do even with low skills. And since PvP isnt about ISK/hour its no burden to bring a new player who is only of little benefit to the group. The more the better.

But I think you are refering to PvE content to lure players into lowsec. Losing a BC is a major loss for a newb. But what is he going to do in a Cruiser that is barely able to bring 150 dps to the grid and cant tank anything.

PvE wise, there is not mutch a new player can do but stay in highsec for the first couple of month. Unless he finds someone who is willing to carry him.

Exploration. Both Data/Relic and small gang exploration of combats. There are still 1/10's - 4/10's in low sec also.
Belt ratting in a gank fit destroyer (Coercer was turning 10/hour, pays for itself the first large rat you kill)
There are low level mission agents in low sec, some of which are very lucrative LP (Try Thukker for example?)

The issue is not risk/isk.

The issue is time investment. Very few new players are going to dive deep into a game and invest massive amounts of time till they have learnt and experienced it for a while. Yet that time investment is what low sec (& partly null also) require. Since you can't just log in and instantly undock, you might have to wait an hour for people to clear the area.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
Villore Accords
#26 - 2015-07-17 14:44:16 UTC
Just a couple things that I think are worth mentioning:

FW Lowsec has a high percentage of new/young players.
BRAVE just moved back to lowsec
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#27 - 2015-07-17 14:48:41 UTC
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Just a couple things that I think are worth mentioning:

FW Lowsec has a high percentage of new/young players.
BRAVE just moved back to lowsec

Given Braves AVERAGE character age is roughly two years.... They aren't really a 'new/young' alliance in any true sense of the word. They are just young compared to some of the ancient null groups who have an average character age of about 10 years.
See Fanfest presentation on characters/alliances/retention/etc for that graph.
Bobaa Fett
Deep Axion
Honorable Third Party
#28 - 2015-07-17 14:49:27 UTC
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Just a couple things that I think are worth mentioning:

FW Lowsec has a high percentage of new/young players.
BRAVE just moved back to lowsec


I am happy about brave moving back. Last I killed one of their members they threatened to camp our systems - more content is a good thing.
Cyber SGB
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#29 - 2015-07-17 14:49:32 UTC
There are a couple of things I know for certain that keep players away from Low Sec.

1. Fear of the unknown. Players that have never been to Low Sec believe it to be a death trap. That fear is compounded by propaganda spewed by High Sec dwellers.

2. The risk of losing isk. Players that play the game to make isk do not want to risk losing that isk. Their only thoughts are how to make more isk. So, there is no reason to go to Low Sec and risk the isk.

I know this, because I use to be this way. There was no way in New Eden you could get me to go to Low Sec. Eventually, I got bored of playing for isk and I decided to play the game for fun. I was recruited by some good folks and took my first travels into Low Sec.

Everything I thought about Low Sec was shattered in one day. It was by far not the death trap I had been conditioned to believe. Have I lost a lot of isk? Yes, but it has mostly been by my choice. If you go there intending on fighting and having fun, you will lose isk. If you just intend to live there and not fight all the time, you will lose much less isk.

I now fear High Sec more. There are much more unknowns in High Sec than I realized.

I write Kindle books. Visit my author page. http://amazon.com/author/sgbynum

Cyber SGB
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#30 - 2015-07-17 14:54:39 UTC
Quote:

Since you can't just log in and instantly undock, you might have to wait an hour for people to clear the area.



Not true at all. This is the type of misinformation I am talking about. I undock everyday with reds and neutrals in the same system. I have never been attacked on station.

I write Kindle books. Visit my author page. http://amazon.com/author/sgbynum

Bobaa Fett
Deep Axion
Honorable Third Party
#31 - 2015-07-17 15:03:27 UTC
Captain Awkward wrote:
Bobaa Fett wrote:

...

What I think can improve this experience is additional incentive to live in lowsec, something that makes a new player say to him/herself "I want to live and play in lowsec" from the very beginning that outweighs their fear of the high risk -
...

I think what players (espacially older ones) often forget is how bad a T1 ship with T1 high-mid-lows and T1 drones in combination with bad skills actually is.

PvP wise, its easy to find some role in a fleet that a new player can do even with low skills. And since PvP isnt about ISK/hour its no burden to bring a new player who is only of little benefit to the group. The more the better.

But I think you are refering to PvE content to lure players into lowsec. Losing a BC is a major loss for a newb. But what is he going to do in a Cruiser that is barely able to bring 150 dps to the grid and cant tank anything.

PvE wise, there is not mutch a new player can do but stay in highsec for the first couple of month. Unless he finds someone who is willing to carry him.


Thank you that is exactly what I'm referring to, and I'm glad you took the time to actually read into this! The PvP aspect is just fine (the "risk")is right where it needs to be. The PvE aspect could use some fine tuning to be more appealing to new players. (The "reward") to keep the content busy, not just active. Eve is what you make of it, but that doesn't mean the experience couldn't be made better.

FW is alright in its present state but as someone mentioned it will get improvements which is a definite plus!
And I like the idea of additional WH leading to more dangerous parts of the universe.

I suggested more consistent yield for lower-end combat sites in lowsec so that those T1 **** fit noob hulls can make somewhat a profit outside of the usual high sec gameplay. Otherwise new players are going to have a very linear route for a long time and grow bored before they even learn more about the game.

New players need a skill-plan before they even start playing otherwise they will have sub-optimal skillpoints spread all over the place - to me, that is where the community can influence new players. We're not there to tell them how to play or what to do, otherwise we don't live in a sandbox, but we sure can tell them what they can do to make their experience efficient and worthwhile with skill training.


Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#32 - 2015-07-17 15:04:05 UTC
I agree something should be done with low-sec although I'm really unsure what that would be. Low-sec has the Factional Warfare which I have never gotten into even though I like the RP side of things and lore/empires etc. I don't think the datacores should have been added to FW or that adding them as a passive generator to POS/structures is a good idea either. The way FW is farmed is not a good situation either. But as CCP says often we the playerbase think outside of the box and find other ways to play the game that they do not realise. 'Hyperdunking' being the most recent of these occurances.

I'm really unsure as to what CCP can do with low-sec but I do agree other than us organising stuff they need to 'iterate' on it in some way. I'll stop mumbling now. Smile

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2015-07-17 15:06:31 UTC
Low sec doesn't need anything rewards wise, it already has the second or 3rd most lucrative forms of income in eve (lvl 5 missions that can be blitzed in less than 2 minutes and faction warfare missions that pay ridiculously well even with the extreme market saturation they cause.) The only PVE in all of EVE that pays more per hour are capital escalations in wormhole space and maybe (depending on conditions) blitzing pirate faction burner missions (the angel cartel in curse has loads of lvl 4 mission agents)..

Hell, when you know what you are doing you can make ridiculous isk with cheap ships in low sec lvl 4s. I have an alt that flys a talos for an npc corp with good mining implants in it's LP store in low sec, it's crazy isk and damn near no one does it.

People should stop asking for new stuff when they don't even use the stuff that exists already.
Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2015-07-17 15:16:56 UTC
Cyber SGB wrote:
There are a couple of things I know for certain that keep players away from Low Sec.

1. Fear of the unknown. Players that have never been to Low Sec believe it to be a death trap. That fear is compounded by propaganda spewed by High Sec dwellers.

2. The risk of losing isk. Players that play the game to make isk do not want to risk losing that isk. Their only thoughts are how to make more isk. So, there is no reason to go to Low Sec and risk the isk.

I know this, because I use to be this way. There was no way in New Eden you could get me to go to Low Sec. Eventually, I got bored of playing for isk and I decided to play the game for fun. I was recruited by some good folks and took my first travels into Low Sec.

Everything I thought about Low Sec was shattered in one day. It was by far not the death trap I had been conditioned to believe. Have I lost a lot of isk? Yes, but it has mostly been by my choice. If you go there intending on fighting and having fun, you will lose isk. If you just intend to live there and not fight all the time, you will lose much less isk.

I now fear High Sec more. There are much more unknowns in High Sec than I realized.
It's definitely compounded by the fact there's no conceptual kickoff point for High > Low operations.

I know that in High Sec I can run my missions, and make my ISK, and as long as nobody thinks I'm in a 2B ISK Officer fit Paladin - I'm almost completely safe.

In Low Sec? I guarantee you any carebear looks at the idea of trying to run those same missions in Low Sec and sees inevitable, perpetual, unavoidable ganking. Why give up 60M ISK/hour in High Sec to get 0.0 ISK/hour running them in Low (and lose all my ships on top of that)? Or why would I give up my profitable missions to go pop belt rats for 10M/hour?

But what about High Sec even tries to teach you what's actually going on in Low?
Bobaa Fett
Deep Axion
Honorable Third Party
#35 - 2015-07-17 15:17:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Bobaa Fett
Cyber SGB wrote:
There are a couple of things I know for certain that keep players away from Low Sec.

1. Fear of the unknown. Players that have never been to Low Sec believe it to be a death trap. That fear is compounded by propaganda spewed by High Sec dwellers.

2. The risk of losing isk. Players that play the game to make isk do not want to risk losing that isk. Their only thoughts are how to make more isk. So, there is no reason to go to Low Sec and risk the isk.

I know this, because I use to be this way. There was no way in New Eden you could get me to go to Low Sec. Eventually, I got bored of playing for isk and I decided to play the game for fun. I was recruited by some good folks and took my first travels into Low Sec.

Everything I thought about Low Sec was shattered in one day. It was by far not the death trap I had been conditioned to believe. Have I lost a lot of isk? Yes, but it has mostly been by my choice. If you go there intending on fighting and having fun, you will lose isk. If you just intend to live there and not fight all the time, you will lose much less isk.

I now fear High Sec more. There are much more unknowns in High Sec than I realized.


This is a perfect example of what I'm explaining. Most of you are established and knowledgeable so you understand that lowsec is actually lucrative and fun, and that there is plenty of content for as long as you MAKE it happen. Escalations provide great pve content and great pvp opportunities...a new player probably won't even know what an escalation is until they're told what it is, so generally they're not making the best of their eve experience because they are only provided with basic and tedious options from the start, they have to rely on a chance that someone with experience and the willingness to teach them will pick them up.
DED sites for instance, you can run the lower end variants with t1 very easily if you know what you're doing- if more new players knew this, they'd travel there more and risk everything for them, AND still come back after dying if they do die.

This isn't about us. This all about the perspective of the new subscriber who will only be getting limited and biased guidance. It's about tweaking ways of advertising a method of gameplay that is high risk and decent yield. Developers, in my opinion, can help fuel that to make it APPEAR more viable, again, for the new solo pilot that just subscribed to the game - on the PvE aspect of the game. We, in lowsec, need that community base just as much as the PvP community base. Personally I don't PvE, when I did I felt it was abysmally boring - a job, but a necessary one. Lowsec PvE was a bit more exhilarating and challenging and you actually learn from it. Still boring though.

You can tell a new player that if he trains a few months for incursions, then he can make billions of isk in a few hours throughout the duration of the day - he'll jump that and get burnt out fast

But no one tells a new player that if he trains combat skills properly, he can run an escalation and get a billion+ isk in much less time, because it's "too dangerous" and not consistent enough to be as reliable.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2015-07-17 15:23:19 UTC
It's weird to see him talk about the lack of proper guidance, while at the same time he does not want to guide anyone.

The corpname adds a lot to the irony here.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Bobaa Fett
Deep Axion
Honorable Third Party
#37 - 2015-07-17 15:24:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Bobaa Fett
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
It's weird to see him talk about the lack of proper guidance, while at the same time he does not want to guide anyone.

The corpname adds a lot to the irony here.

We can put it on the community to help keep players in the game all we want, but last I checked, we don't work for CCP and we're not getting paid to keep new players in the game. That's not the communities' job, although we can help it happen.

There are games out there with absolutely **** communities that can still keep players subscribing because of content and gameplay.
EvE has a better community than most, but can't seem to accomplish the latter. To me that's as simple as giving content a more appealing (not easier, not less risky) appearance so that they, at the very least, can experience it before they plan out 6 months of skillpoints.

I do what I can when I find a new pilot who is willing to do what we do, but because of the ever present stigma of lowsec, those are few and far between.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2015-07-17 15:28:06 UTC
Bobaa Fett wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
It's weird to see him talk about the lack of proper guidance, while at the same time he does not want to guide anyone.

The corpname adds a lot to the irony here.

We can put it on the community to help keep players in the game all we want, but last I checked, we didn't work for CCP and we're not getting paid to keep new player in the game.


Except it's pretty much proven that newbies will only go to low-sec if they have a helper to guide them in there. No matter how much ISK you can make in low-sec, it will be syphoned by veteran if it's worth it or left to rot because newbie will get over-farmed in their ****-fit ship that takes 3x as much time to complete the site.

It's a sandbox but too few people are willing to lend their shovels to the newcomers to encourage them to bring their own shovels tomorrow.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2015-07-17 15:30:32 UTC
Bobaa Fett wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
It's weird to see him talk about the lack of proper guidance, while at the same time he does not want to guide anyone.

The corpname adds a lot to the irony here.

We can put it on the community to help keep players in the game all we want, but last I checked, we didn't work for CCP and we're not getting paid to keep new player in the game.

Then I guess we should all stop recruiting and let CCP do that for us? How about caring more about the game? Because you do not. You want change to happen for your own good, but not for the game. If you really cared you wouldn't dismiss the most reasonable and efficient of all options: Doing it yourself!

Seriously, your excuse is shameful. You want change, you could change it, you do not want to put effort into it.

Evidence so far hints at you being nothing but a carebear.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Marsha Mallow
#40 - 2015-07-17 15:31:00 UTC
Bobaa Fett wrote:
I never said dead, but it sure could use some beefing up, especially mechanics for those who don't choose to fly with masses. If they can tweak sov mechanics they could do the same for us, is all I'm saying.

Nullsec has been so broken for so long it needed a complete rewrite. Lowsec just needs a few tweaks. It's a mistake to treat different areas of space as independent from each other. Lowsec is already being impacted positively by the sov changes (Test/Brave restaging) and we'll probably see more movement once the peasants wake up and notice their huts are burning down.

It's more or less stating the obvious to say lowsec needs some tweaking and I doubt many people will argue that they don't want more content. But making vague 'please buff x ccp' requests and then muttering about risk-reward isn't particularly constructive, which is why I linked those Gorski articles earlier. Even without being a pure lowsec CSM he's already putting forward concrete ideas for changes which will benefit the residents and Sugar has been doing it for a while. If you have viable proposals for gameplay changes, write them up and post in F&I. Grumble threadnaughts in GD are usually just a massive waste of time for everyone involved. If a request for a rebalance or buff to increase player content hinges upon increased ISK faucets it's usually a sign it's a bad idea.
Bobaa Fett wrote:
This isn't about us. This all about the perspective of the new subscriber

It's always about the newbies. Except when it isn't, because dramatic changes to lowsec mechanics will affect everyone and the people most likely to benefit will be vets. There's an open topic inviting discussion about the NPE here.
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
I agree something should be done with low-sec although I'm really unsure what that would be.

I'm really unsure as to what CCP can do with low-sec but I do agree other than us organising stuff they need to 'iterate' on it in some way. I'll stop mumbling now. Smile

Tbh this isn't an unreasonable attitude and at least you''re honest enough to admit you'd like to see change but haven't got a clear idea what should be adjusted.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day