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We want your SOV little things!

First post First post
Author
Evelgrivion
Origin.
Black Legion...
#81 - 2015-07-23 05:43:19 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
You mean you want a free buffer defense multiplier in the time it takes to get your ratting/mining people rolling?


Something like that, but not exactly.

With sixteen hours of vulnerability, almost anyone can keep trading back and forth for quite some time, making it extremely difficult for people making a sov-grab to get any traction and security without going full no-life mode and calling friends. Starting off with the maximum window of vulnerability is unnecessary. The base vulnerability window in a newly captured system should be something closer to four hours, before it rapidly degenerates (long before you can grind the system into an even moderately invulnerable position) into the maximum 12 hour window.
Razor Z
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#82 - 2015-07-23 13:22:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Razor Z
Evelgrivion wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
You mean you want a free buffer defense multiplier in the time it takes to get your ratting/mining people rolling?


Something like that, but not exactly.

With sixteen hours of vulnerability, almost anyone can keep trading back and forth for quite some time, making it extremely difficult for people making a sov-grab to get any traction and security without going full no-life mode and calling friends. Starting off with the maximum window of vulnerability is unnecessary. The base vulnerability window in a newly captured system should be something closer to four hours, before it rapidly degenerates (long before you can grind the system into an even moderately invulnerable position) into the maximum 12 hour window.


Exactly, a very good point. One of the stated goals of the new sov system, and in particular the vulnerability window, is that alliances shouldn't have to feel that they need to work 23x7 just to hold a system. Right now it is incredibly difficult to take a system from a hostile entity and then HOLD that system long enough to get the indicies up to a level where the vulnerability window is actually down to where you can defend it. Right now all the enemy has to do is wait until you are sleeping or not very active and then a single elinking ceptor can reinforce everything you just took at 10 minutes a structure... and because your window is so large, the timer will be WAY out of your timezone.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#83 - 2015-07-23 15:45:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth Feld
Razor Z wrote:
Evelgrivion wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
You mean you want a free buffer defense multiplier in the time it takes to get your ratting/mining people rolling?


Something like that, but not exactly.

With sixteen hours of vulnerability, almost anyone can keep trading back and forth for quite some time, making it extremely difficult for people making a sov-grab to get any traction and security without going full no-life mode and calling friends. Starting off with the maximum window of vulnerability is unnecessary. The base vulnerability window in a newly captured system should be something closer to four hours, before it rapidly degenerates (long before you can grind the system into an even moderately invulnerable position) into the maximum 12 hour window.


Exactly, a very good point. One of the stated goals of the new sov system, and in particular the vulnerability window, is that alliances shouldn't have to feel that they need to work 23x7 just to hold a system. Right now it is incredibly difficult to take a system from a hostile entity and then HOLD that system long enough to get the indicies up to a level where the vulnerability window is actually down to where you can defend it. Right now all the enemy has to do is wait until you are sleeping or not very active and then a single elinking ceptor can reinforce everything you just took at 10 minutes a structure... and because your window is so large, the timer will be WAY out of your timezone.



OK, so going from 0/0/0 system

Sov index goes as fast as it goes....nothing can be done

Military index rate was INCREASED dramatically

You can go from 1 to 2 in a matter of a few hours while belt ratting, then you kinda have to wait for DT to have anomolies spawn.

After DT the anomolies doubled now, provide plenty of realistic chance to raise your index to 3 or 4 QUICKLY

When you go from 1-2 the ADM updates IMMEDIATELY

ADM
0/0/0 = 6H
0/0/1 = 5H
0/0/2 = 4H 17M
0/0/3 = 3H 49M

If getting the index from 1 to 3 in 2 days is too much for your alliance and having a 6H TZ coverage, then you are probably not the target for sov holders


I am assuming by the fact you talk about taking sov and bitching about 16H vunerability window you either:
A. Don't know how capital system work
B. Already own sov somewhere and have designated a capital system, in which case you should be acute aware how hard it is to hold sov (I looked on dotlan and you don't, so that leads me to believe you are clueless and A applies)

Either way, if you can't dedicate a few hours in the first few days to increase your index and raise your ADM, you probably don't deserve SOV
Evelgrivion
Origin.
Black Legion...
#84 - 2015-07-23 18:19:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Evelgrivion
Evelgrivion wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
You mean you want a free buffer defense multiplier in the time it takes to get your ratting/mining people rolling?


Something like that, but not exactly.

With sixteen hours of vulnerability, almost anyone can keep trading back and forth for quite some time, making it extremely difficult for people making a sov-grab to get any traction and security without going full no-life mode and calling friends. Starting off with the maximum window of vulnerability is unnecessary. The base vulnerability window in a newly captured system should be something closer to four hours, before it rapidly degenerates (long before you can grind the system into an even moderately invulnerable position) into the maximum 12 hour window.


After looking over the patch notes and reviewing the game mechanics, it looks like most of my fundamental concerns are already addressed by the system.
BogeyBomber
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#85 - 2015-07-23 20:00:36 UTC
Chase Hakoke wrote:
command nodes are awful. just have one node so we can have one fun concentrated fight.


I partially agree with chase's comment here. But instead of awful I would describe it as excessive and drawn-out. My experience with defending is that fights are mostly-avoidable because of the quantity of command nodes that are spawning. The opposing force doesn't need to hold the field because they can just find another node to hack. This has resulted in fleets mostly lying-in-wait until 1. a node is being hacked by the opposition or 2. our hacker is being aggressed. While this was fun for a while, it has grown boring.

I would like to offer two suggestions to help streamline and intensify the sov battle:

1. Reduce the quantity of commands nodes necessary to win. I'd recommend a Best of 5, 7, or 8... I like an even-number because, in the event of a tie, a Sudden Death node could spawn.

Or,

2. Add a countdown to the battle. 3 hour fleets consisting mostly of lying-in-wait, suck. A two hour countdown where the intensity climaxes toward the end is more tolerable. In this scenario the nodes would re-spawn but not on a 1:1 ratio. Later spawning nodes would become more and more important while simultaneously bringing the opposing forces into closer contact with one another.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2015-07-24 00:54:15 UTC
BogeyBomber wrote:
Chase Hakoke wrote:
command nodes are awful. just have one node so we can have one fun concentrated fight.


I partially agree with chase's comment here. But instead of awful I would describe it as excessive and drawn-out. My experience with defending is that fights are mostly-avoidable because of the quantity of command nodes that are spawning. The opposing force doesn't need to hold the field because they can just find another node to hack. This has resulted in fleets mostly lying-in-wait until 1. a node is being hacked by the opposition or 2. our hacker is being aggressed. While this was fun for a while, it has grown boring.

I would like to offer two suggestions to help streamline and intensify the sov battle:

1. Reduce the quantity of commands nodes necessary to win. I'd recommend a Best of 5, 7, or 8... I like an even-number because, in the event of a tie, a Sudden Death node could spawn.

Or,

2. Add a countdown to the battle. 3 hour fleets consisting mostly of lying-in-wait, suck. A two hour countdown where the intensity climaxes toward the end is more tolerable. In this scenario the nodes would re-spawn but not on a 1:1 ratio. Later spawning nodes would become more and more important while simultaneously bringing the opposing forces into closer contact with one another.



Probably the number and speed of spawn of nodes is the point ccp is most collecting data. We need to give them more time to colelct more data from the game live so then they can make adjustments as such.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#87 - 2015-07-24 12:46:40 UTC
The 3 sov badges (Ihub, TCU, Station) need a percentage indicator for capturing progress when nodes spawned. The bar and circle is nice and dandy, but it's usefulness is limited at best.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Evelgrivion
Origin.
Black Legion...
#88 - 2015-07-25 08:34:40 UTC
The need to inhibit agility in entosis-interceptors was recognized before FozzieSov went live, but it doesn't quite seem sufficient. What if fitting Entosis Links also broke bubble-immunity?

I don't think the system can achieve its end goals of diversifying the habitation of nullsec if security indices can be boosted up by absolutely anyone. There's no shortage of people who only want to use 0.0 space to PVE all day, and so long as they can go to one place to get it, that's the one place they will go. Perhaps a subtle change can be made that makes military and industrial indices unaffected by people outside of the sov-holding alliance?
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#89 - 2015-07-25 17:01:22 UTC
Evelgrivion wrote:


I don't think the system can achieve its end goals of diversifying the habitation of nullsec if security indices can be boosted up by absolutely anyone. There's no shortage of people who only want to use 0.0 space to PVE all day, and so long as they can go to one place to get it, that's the one place they will go. Perhaps a subtle change can be made that makes military and industrial indices unaffected by people outside of the sov-holding alliance?


Part of the intent of Fozziesov is to make people get out in space to do things. People out in space doing things provide content for others. It doesn't matter whether the ratters and miners have the same alliance ticker as the sov holder - as long as they are out in space to act as targets.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Evelgrivion
Origin.
Black Legion...
#90 - 2015-07-26 02:52:13 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Part of the intent of Fozziesov is to make people get out in space to do things. People out in space doing things provide content for others. It doesn't matter whether the ratters and miners have the same alliance ticker as the sov holder - as long as they are out in space to act as targets.


Sure, but who is going to go after an extremely painful, maximum defense index system, whose defense responsibilities have been outsourced to a renter group that's paying for the privilege?
Erika Mizune
Lucifer's Hammer
A Band Apart.
#91 - 2015-07-26 04:03:18 UTC
Well I made a post about this, but "technically" this is a sov little thing as it would take nothing to do it:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=430989&find=unread

SBU BPO's in-game, why are they even being "switched over" - I get the idea to give players the chance to redeem them for the isk they paid for them if they choose to, but if you don't, the dev blog states they will be moved over to a TCU BPO, but why? There were a few BPO's that remained in-game that have no use, but they remain and retain their collectors value to them.

Why not do the same for these? Make them so they are not seeded anymore (which is done), make them build-able, BUT remove their functionality (as it states in the dev blog, if they are anchored, they get destroyed), do this instead of just "switching them over" to TCU BPO's.

I ask this because I am a collector and I know I'm not alone in this when I say that I am sad to hear that a piece of my collection is just going to "vanish" essentially.

I post this here because this is still a SOV thing IMO.

Thanks,

Erika

Former DJ & Manager of Eve Radio | Blog | Sounds of New Eden | Twitch | Twitter

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#92 - 2015-07-26 04:42:16 UTC
Evelgrivion wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Part of the intent of Fozziesov is to make people get out in space to do things. People out in space doing things provide content for others. It doesn't matter whether the ratters and miners have the same alliance ticker as the sov holder - as long as they are out in space to act as targets.


Sure, but who is going to go after an extremely painful, maximum defense index system, whose defense responsibilities have been outsourced to a renter group that's paying for the privilege?


There is plenty of barely defended SOV for those people to try to grab if they are not willing to put in the effort of attacking someone who found a way to work their index up.
Evelgrivion
Origin.
Black Legion...
#93 - 2015-07-26 05:53:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Evelgrivion
Frostys Virpio wrote:

There is plenty of barely defended SOV for those people to try to grab if they are not willing to put in the effort of attacking someone who found a way to work their index up.


The fact that there are many more, much easier systems to entosis leaves very little incentive to pursue systems that the CFC owns, but does not directly use. In all likelihood, it follows that Fozzie Sov will fail to breathe life into many of the stagnant reaches of nullsec, while increasing the CFC's body count.
Okapist
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2015-07-26 20:25:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Okapist
Now we have a lot of uncontested timers. It's bad. I want to see all unused systems unclaimed with freeport stations. It will be better for nullsec. Anyone can travel through freeport stations to any null systems and live there.

It's very simple to reinforce needless system. Only 15 minutes. But 10 command nodes very boring.
I offer to decrease needed command nodes number to win timer.

For example: First 12 hours after start we need 10 command nodes like now, next 12 hours we need 5 command nodes and after day we need only one command node to win a timer. But to claim a freeport station we need 10 nodes in any time.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#95 - 2015-07-26 23:21:08 UTC
Evelgrivion wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

There is plenty of barely defended SOV for those people to try to grab if they are not willing to put in the effort of attacking someone who found a way to work their index up.


The fact that there are many more, much easier systems to entosis leaves very little incentive to pursue systems that the CFC owns, but does not directly use. In all likelihood, it follows that Fozzie Sov will fail to breathe life into many of the stagnant reaches of nullsec, while increasing the CFC's body count.


You can still take SOV for yourself elsewhere than the current imperium space. Hell there are timer that have stayed vulnerable for 10 DAYS. How about you start by taking those and generate content instead of trying to attack what is currently the biggest entity which kinda mean they will probably also be the one putting the most pilots in it's defense fleet?

IHub VVO-R6 Feythabolis Fraternity. 2015-07-16T08:29:51 -10d 14h 49m 39s 30%
TCU 9KE-IT Cobalt Edge Shadow of xXDEATHXx 2015-07-16T15:22:46 -10d 7h 56m 44s 60%
TCU GQLB-V Cobalt Edge Shadow of xXDEATHXx 2015-07-16T17:23:39 -10d 5h 55m 51s 55%

As of when I post of course, but that's already 3 timer you could of tried to win and proabbly build your index since the current holder more than likely don't care.

But nooooooooo, gotta take the imperium's space. Anything beside that is a waste of time to you I guess...
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#96 - 2015-07-27 06:50:09 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
But nooooooooo, gotta take the imperium's space. Anything beside that is a waste of time to you I guess...

Not surprising, Shadow of Death aren't the evil that will destroy eve...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Anthar Thebess
#97 - 2015-07-27 07:24:23 UTC
Make boosts to alliance capitol.
Not only buff timers, but also provide upgrades that will benefit operating only from this system.

This will affect greatly small groups , holding no or little space.
For example :
PVE
( industry based - so people will try to do something "stupid" there)
? production time reduced even more
? system wide mining boosts ( so no boosting ship needed)
? increased outcome of PI


Logistics:
(this is your capitol after all)
? Upgrade allowing longer jumps from this specific systems
? Reduce pos fuel usage even more ( pos wars!)

The overall idea is to persuade people not to change , and really fight/operate from this system.




Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#98 - 2015-07-28 14:07:34 UTC
Evelgrivion wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

There is plenty of barely defended SOV for those people to try to grab if they are not willing to put in the effort of attacking someone who found a way to work their index up.


The fact that there are many more, much easier systems to entosis leaves very little incentive to pursue systems that the CFC owns, but does not directly use. In all likelihood, it follows that Fozzie Sov will fail to breathe life into many of the stagnant reaches of nullsec, while increasing the CFC's body count.



Come to Delve: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Delve

Sov is available all over the place.....free to anyone who drops a TCU
Somal Thunder
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2015-07-28 20:26:15 UTC
Roll From a user of the new sovereignty system:


  1. Why can't we right click the notification of structures being captured? (to set destination, add waypoint...)

  2. Why can't we look at capture events on a map? (Like... maybe the new map even?Idea Give it a reason to be better than the old map?)
Aramis Rosicrux
Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris
#100 - 2015-07-30 16:42:05 UTC
I had high hopes for an improved Sov system. But this is soul-crushing. Small or even medium alliances can never chip away at a large entrenched alliance.

So my options are join the largest alliances or go back to hi-sec???

Hey!!! CCP???? Why should I pay for this every month?

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