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The Tragedy of Sana Clarret
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N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#61 - 2015-07-17 16:07:25 UTC
I must be, I don't know, passed out in a bowl of crash with blue pill sprinkles, but it looks like Angel Cartel podders are making arguments based on... legality?

Perhaps they even no longer cheat at billiards.

**Vherokior **
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#62 - 2015-07-17 16:34:22 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
I must be, I don't know, passed out in a bowl of crash with blue pill sprinkles, but it looks like Angel Cartel podders are making arguments based on... legality?

Perhaps they even no longer cheat at billiards.

If I remember, the Angels are pragmatists to a frequently brutal degree. You can maybe expect them not to take a principled stand on anything much, including which side of the law they're on.

Where they might seem to be taking a principled stand, it's likely to fit under the heading of "good business practices."
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#63 - 2015-07-17 19:33:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Samira Kernher wrote:


CONCORD makes it illegal. It also makes the drug trade illegal, and that also occurs on the SCC. The SCC is an unregulated free market, it allows business in things that are otherwise illegal in the name of "free trade". The fact that the SCC allows the trade of controlled items doesn't


Ah, we may be in disagreement on the interpretation of that specific message...

CONCORD wants to remind people that slave trade is strictly forbidden everywhere except within Amarr borders and that there are harsh penalties for engaging in human trade.

It only states that slave trade is illegal everywhere but in Amarr borders (they probably forgot the Khanid Kingdom, it is rather telling on the accuracy of that article...). Nowhere it states that CONCORD is actually at the source of that legislation. Actually, considering that every empire custom officerenforces it on its own while the SCC, CONCORD sanctioned, allows every good in existence to be traded, is telling.

However, I may grant that the mention that CONCORD ships are taking actions too is a bit baffling, because I have never seen them do so.

Also, this piece of news dates back from the very dawn of the era of freelance capsuleers, in YC105...
Goldfinch
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2015-07-18 03:48:34 UTC

Samira Kernher wrote:
CONCORD makes it illegal. It also makes the drug trade illegal, and that also occurs on the SCC. The SCC is an unregulated free market, it allows business in things that are otherwise illegal in the name of "free trade".


We will write an addendum to Ms. Farel's post.

The CONCORD statement is inaccurate or incomplete for many reasons:

  • The SCC had been established for decades by YC105, when the statement is made. Being a CONCORD division itself and being that the SCC earns taxes for each slave transaction, it stands to reason that not all of CONCORD wholly agree with the statement.

  • YC105 is followed by decentralization of CONCORD's market hub and then eventually large scale disconnection. So in YC117, the opinions of CONCORD from a trade volume system owner is much less relevant.

  • The present day legality of slave transport is not enforced by a shoot-to-kill policy, as noted in the linked YC105 statement. Instead a hefty fine is imposed by CONCORD and the offender, if they comply, is let go. All this only in systems with explicit CONCORD sovereignty, and nowhere else in the Cluster.

  • To say that SCC markets are unregulated is not accurate. There are many products that are restricted in SCC markets, Blueprints, select Boosters, and so on.


We are not contesting your opinion, Lt. Kernher, we agree with it. We hope you understand this humble Civic Court solicitor's nervous twitch for wanting to join in on a discussion of historical legality. Blink

\J/

veiled and bound

my origin story (on eve-backstage)
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#65 - 2015-07-18 04:01:39 UTC
I'm not going to comment further on CONCORD regulations. I do not have a CONCORD law book, I will not engage in any argument with regard to it.

The only thing that matters is that it is against God's Law. Whether or not CONCORD considers it legal, it is a crime against God and must be stopped.

The end.
Goldfinch
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2015-07-18 04:13:55 UTC

We regret for adding our unproductive opinion in this debate. Please accept our apology, Lieutenant.

\J/

veiled and bound

my origin story (on eve-backstage)
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#67 - 2015-07-18 12:01:02 UTC
Goldfinch wrote:

The SCC had been established for decades by YC105, when the statement is made. Being a CONCORD division itself and being that the SCC earns taxes for each slave transaction, it stands to reason that not all of CONCORD wholly agree with the statement.

Indeed, it does make you wonder how much of a cut CONCORD get from drugs and other illegal goods sold on the SCC markets, the cherry on top - same markets also work in pirate owned stations with whom CONCORD's other division so valiantly fight.

Well, I guess all those bounties have to go from somewhere, especially those that CONCORD put on soulless who "display anti-authoritarian personal pride".
Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2015-07-18 14:58:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinjin Mokk
Samira Kernher wrote:
I'm not going to comment further on CONCORD regulations. I do not have a CONCORD law book, I will not engage in any argument with regard to it.

The only thing that matters is that it is against God's Law. Whether or not CONCORD considers it legal, it is a crime against God and must be stopped.

The end.



Excellent. Keep to the things you are good at, like killing Nauplius. And do try to remember your place within the Empire when speaking in public to your betters.

My point is that we have situations like this where CONCORD "law" and treaties seem to supersede Amarr secular and temporal law. So if you, or anyone happens to disagree with Imperial or CONCORD interpretations of the law or how they can be circumvented, try to learn to live with it. Neither the Empire nor CONCORD seem inclined to change the laws or indeed, even care about your opinions.

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#69 - 2015-07-18 15:25:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
Excellent. Keep to the things you are good at, like killing Nauplius. And do try to remember your place within the Empire when speaking in public to your betters.

Augh! I am so sick of hearing this, and it's not even directed at me!

Sinjin, I'm going to be blunt. If she could only find her peace with herself and the universe, Samira Kernher would be one of the best of you. What really disgusts me is how hard many many Amarr seem to work to keep her from ever finding that peace. You crush her down under the weight of her own supposed menial state.

I've felt a little of that myself. The merest taste of the derision that's directed at her is a large part of why I left the Amarr. That's a luxury Samira doesn't have. She's trapped by chains your culture carefully layered into place.

If she's harsh, judgmental, cruel to others as she is to herself, that's something you people made her. No-- scratch that; it wasn't the Kingdom-- but if what I've been seeing from you and your dear cousin here is any example, you'd have done exactly the same, given the chance.

And I can't help thinking you'd do the same to me.
Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2015-07-18 15:59:54 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:


Sinjin, I'm going to be blunt. If she could only find her peace with herself and the universe, Samira Kernher would be one of the best of you. What really disgusts me is how hard many many Amarr seem to work to keep her from ever finding that peace. You crush her down under the weight of her own supposed menial state.

I've felt a little of that myself. The merest taste of the derision that's directed at her is a large part of why I left the Amarr. That's a luxury Samira doesn't have. She's trapped by chains your culture carefully layered into place.

If she's harsh, judgmental, cruel to others as she is to herself, that's something you people made her. No-- scratch that; it wasn't the Kingdom-- but if what I've been seeing from you and your dear cousin here is any example, you'd have done exactly the same, given the chance.

And I can't help thinking you'd do the same to me.


I did warn you before your sojourn to Amarr that this is exactly the kind of culture you would find there. That no matter how useful, dedicated or faithful you are, if you're not a Holder from one of the Great Houses, you're the help. Liking or hating it is irrelevant. It just is. Removing Amarr arrogance would be about as difficult as removing Amarr slave culture.

And to be equally blunt, if you could only find peace with yourself and the universe, you would be one of the best of us.

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."
Jev North
Doomheim
#71 - 2015-07-18 16:15:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jev North
It's quite endearing to watch you try to place yourself over others.

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#72 - 2015-07-18 16:19:58 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
Excellent. Keep to the things you are good at, like killing Nauplius. And do try to remember your place within the Empire when speaking in public to your betters.

Augh! I am so sick of hearing this, and it's not even directed at me!

Sinjin, I'm going to be blunt. If she could only find her peace with herself and the universe, Samira Kernher would be one of the best of you. What really disgusts me is how hard many many Amarr seem to work to keep her from ever finding that peace. You crush her down under the weight of her own supposed menial state.

I'm sorry, what again? You do know about Mokk's and Stillwater's loyalties, right?
"Best of you", yeah right. You should try a stand-up comedy.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#73 - 2015-07-18 16:35:30 UTC
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
And do try to remember your place within the Empire when speaking in public to your betters.


I do remember my place when speaking to my betters.

I am not speaking to any of them here.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#74 - 2015-07-18 17:49:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
I'm sorry, what again? You do know about Mokk's and Stillwater's loyalties, right?

"Best of you", yeah right. You should try a stand-up comedy.

Sinjin and his cousin were speaking as Khanid/Amarr nobility. Holders. Regardless of their present allegiances, it's your culture that this feudal hierarchy comes from, and your culture that enforces it with varying levels of vigor.

Their remarks are founded in their place in your culture. There's only so far you can disown that.

Sinjin Mokk wrote:
I did warn you before your sojourn to Amarr that this is exactly the kind of culture you would find there. That no matter how useful, dedicated or faithful you are, if you're not a Holder from one of the Great Houses, you're the help. Liking or hating it is irrelevant. It just is. Removing Amarr arrogance would be about as difficult as removing Amarr slave culture.

Liking or hating it is hugely relevant to (1) whether I will stay and (2) whether I'll tolerate it from people who should know better.

From the sounds of things, you don't actually even believe you are better than her. Which is worse, because then you're not even trying to enforce your position in the universe-- you're just trying to hurt her by playing on beliefs you know your culture impressed on her!

Quote:
And to be equally blunt, if you could only find peace with yourself and the universe, you would be one of the best of us.

Hm.

In general, it seems like people think I should be a lot more troubled than I am. Some people seem to think I'm an awful person because of it. I'm more or less at peace with who I am and what is asked of me ... and to some people I guess that's horrifying.

It's hard not to get angry when I see an injured person being hurt further, though.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#75 - 2015-07-18 19:13:34 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
I'm sorry, what again? You do know about Mokk's and Stillwater's loyalties, right?

"Best of you", yeah right. You should try a stand-up comedy.

Sinjin and his cousin were speaking as Khanid/Amarr nobility. Holders. Regardless of their present allegiances, it's your culture that this feudal hierarchy comes from, and your culture that enforces it with varying levels of vigor.

Their remarks are founded in their place in your culture. There's only so far you can disown that.

I see.
You spent some time with amarr soulless, heard some things, got drunk on amarrian wine a few times and now you think you understand amarr, that's cute. By your stellar logic Nauplius is a khanid/amarr prophet too.

I can only congratulate you on the things you learned in those two or so months, while you were here. So, good work there mrs. Jenneth, that was obviously a time well spent.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#76 - 2015-07-18 19:45:46 UTC
Respectfully, Ensign, you say a great many things, but you do not say I am wrong, or explain why or how.

If you believe I'm wrong, please correct me. Otherwise, I may continue to make incorrect observations.

Ashlar Vellum wrote:
By your stellar logic Nauplius is a khanid/amarr prophet too.

Did you mean to conflate criminals with heretics?
Anyanka Funk
Doomheim
#77 - 2015-07-18 20:04:21 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Leopold Caine wrote:
Kalaratiri wrote:
I would like to take a moment to assure readers that the views of the Stillwater corporation and its members do not represent the views of the wider Angel Cartel.

Carry on darlings!


I'd like to take a moment to remind readers that mercenaries collaborating with Nation sycophants should keep their mouth shut and know their place.


I'd like to remind readers that every time Vincent Pryce hears Leo here describe himself as an angel he pulls just the MOST humourous face, until we remind him that Leo is probably simply describing himself as a flamboyant homosexual.


I believe that would make Leopold's place kneeling in front of Sinjin, consequently, with his mouth open.
Odelya d'Hanguest
Order of St. Severian
#78 - 2015-07-18 20:11:01 UTC
In Light's Name


Ms Jenneth

The waters of Amarr are spoiled, but its source pristine. One cannot blame an aberration from the source on the source. Rather, one has to look for distorting circumstances—like an immature soul or insinuations of Molok. We cannot see how this—and what are you talking about in specific?—becomes a personal issue. After all, the ultimate goal is not to shine in the ongoing bonfire of the vanities, but salvation.

Yours sincerely
Odelya d'Hanguest, Begum etc. pp.
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#79 - 2015-07-18 22:07:19 UTC
Alizebeth Amalath wrote:
Sana Clarret was born on Mishi IV in YC89. The youngest of five brothers and sisters, she was at best described as a troubled girl. Not all people are perfect and some require some added help. After her third arrest for criminal behaviour, she was sentenced to a period of twenty years of slavery for rehabilitation under a proper holder. For most people in her position, this turns out well enough. Their holder will provide them with physical and spiritual care, a purpose and an environment where they will learn to be a valued member of society.
Sana never got to her holder. Instead, she was sold on the market by the Civic Court. A capsuleer purchased her on the SCC Market and she found her way into the possession of a Butcher named Nauplius. The Butcher subjected her and many of her fellows to obscene and horrendous blooder rituals that have permanently scarred her psyche. She is one of the lucky ones, saved when an Imperial loyalist fleet destroyed the tower that she and other slaves were held on. Still, she is a shattered individual when she should be on her way to a rehabilitated and meaningful life.
That CONCORD continues to permit the buying and selling of people to capsuleers on its SCC markets is a crime not just against scripture, but against humanity. It’s not enough that the Amarr stop selling their slaves on the open market, any capsuleer commerce in slaves, no matter how they were acquired, must end.


I do not remember the name Sana Clarret, but one whose slave population is in the tens of thousands could hardly be expected to learn the names of his chattel, even if he so wished. Which he does not.

I reject the wayward and liberal Empire's notion that slaves are to be rehabilitated. Slaves exist for two reasons —

  • As a source of disposable labor, one to be used up and then discarded when no longer functional.
  • To glorify God in their destruction, especially through torture and sacrificial rites.


Nearly all of my slaves are Minmatar, and the remainder comes from the wreckage of Pleasure Hubs, places that (like the Minmatar) God has given over to destruction. Any other non-Minmatar in past or present slavery under my lash would probably be the result of a clerical error or something. Although I sacrifice only Minmatar, I subject all slaves to maximum psychological torture and forced participation in sacrificial rites, and so I would expect anyone to survive my slavery to be "shattered" in more ways than one. God is glorified in this.

Nothing you say will alter my behavior. I will continue to "shatter" my slaves each and every day. Amen. Amarr Victor.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#80 - 2015-07-18 22:12:01 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Respectfully, Ensign, you say a great many things, but you do not say I am wrong, or explain why or how.

If you believe I'm wrong, please correct me. Otherwise, I may continue to make incorrect observations.

Why should I.
You didn't seek any explanations you just made your "blunt" assumptions and presented it like unquestionable truth. And to be frank it saddens me to see person who spent two and a half months in SFRIM, learned absolutely nothing about amarr.

No, actually scratch that, you did hear titbit here, read some scrap there and clamped everything you "learned" in one big mess - amarr Jenneth's edition. So you got this monstrous amalgamation where words of some cartel scum matters to amarr, but not only that you consider that filth and please do correct me if I'm wrong "one of the best of you". And that's only from one post which is probably just a tip of the iceberg of things you "learned" about amarr.

So with all due respect mrs Jenneth, I doubt I can explain anything to you in one post when even SFRIM failed to do so in two months.

tldr mrs Jenneth

Word of a pirate scumlord doesn't matter, and he can throw his fancy nobility title out of the window as soon as he becomes a criminal. If not for CONCORD's greed and corruption someone would have been re-enslaved by now for his crimes. Same goes for heretics, what they spew or think means jack.