Crime & Punishment

I agree with the friends part. There are so many things you can do to not be ganked.

I'm only speaking to the beachball characteristics of freighters (and other capitals) being dumb. I've pounded more than 1 freighter off a gate w/ my trusty enyo back in the day. It's funny as all get out, but it's still kind of dumb. I'm no proponent of applying reality to the game. I'm just saying that capital ships shouldn't act like beach balls.

As to my idea, I was doing my best to describe a higgs rig w/out saying higgs rig. I guess it didn't translate as well as I thought.

Sounds like you want to take the thing that makes EVE interesting, fun and dangerous and basically scrap it and make EVE like all the other MMOs I don't play because they don't have that thing.

There are tons of games out there where non-aggression is enforced arbitrarily through the game mechanics rather than a choice / consequence model like CONCORD. You are free to play any of those games. Leave this one the way it is.

2-3: That isn't possible. The mach pilot has to predict the freighter's warp path. Probes are not involved in 90% of ganks. The only time they are used is if the freighter escapes to a safe spot or logs off while being bumped.
6. Anyone using stealth bombers to gank is an idiot or is encountering fits tanked against specific damage types with specific holes. Even in that instance it would be more effective to move to a thrasher or tornado setup that bombers. The vast majority of freighter ganks are done by catalysts, brutix and/or talos.
9. Unlike other forms of ganking, podding the gankers, stealing/blowing up their ships, and having counter-bumpers on grid are all effective against globbydunking. All normal anti-ganking strategies still work, and remote reps are even more effective because of the down time between waves.

Hyper dunking has been used for years. I don't understand why the bowhead suddenly made it a big deal.

That sure is a lot of words.

I can and have done it several times back in the day. The difference between what I did and what you do is pretty large. I didn't have to bump it off grid to gank it. I just had to bump it enough to keep it from jumping through a gate while I kept it pointed. I've never suicide ganked freighters - I've only taken them down as war targets.

What you do and what I've done are similar, but different. I'd like to be clear here. I admire what you guys do. It takes skill, planning and effort. That doesn't mean I think it's good for the game. We'll have to agree to disagree on that. It's a tough subject to weigh in on. No one should get a free pass doing anything in eve. I truely believe that.

On the other hand if the only way to get goods from A to B in a frieghter is to fit it for max tank instead of max cargo, limit the amount of value in the hold and 2 or 3 other things - then something is out of balance.

Here's my feelings on it. There is no way in hell a gang of cats or bombers should be able to routinely take down a capital ship in empire under concords nose. 100 mil in t1 scrub ships shouldn't be able to do that every time. Should a gang of 10 BS be able to trade for a freighter that is just too good to pass up? - heck yeah. The math is just off. I'll say that an underlying problem is with the concord AI. They 3 volley every ship that crosses the line. That could use a tweak. If a concord response fleet can cut through my gank mega in 3 vollies then they should be able to alpha a catalyst. I've gotten a 3rd volley off w/ 1400 arty during ganks. If it's too much work on the AI to alpha things, then tweek the lock times and how soon concord puts a jam on smaller ships.

CCP just needs to balance out a few things. I'm really not a fan of a hard -10 player being able to warp around HS all day in a properly fit ship. That's also tough. I think it's OK for a -10 guy to get to jita, grab an implant or what ever and make a run back to LS. Spending all day trading thrashers for pods is not ok (again - my opinion).

Keep in mind none of this is butthurt show me on the doll crap. We're discussing game balance as it relates to suicide ganking - so I'm giving my opinion as a gal that laughs when she gets ganked and occaisionally ganks folks.

You don't have to bump it once it's pointed. It sounds like what you're saying is you would aggress before they jump through their out-gate... but if they're a WT, you would want to aggress when they attempt to warp from the in-gate to their next out-gate.

Why would you want to stress keeping them from jumping through a gate? It's a Freighter and a WT, it's already dead.



It honestly doesn't sounds like you admire what we do.

It's all about risk. Is Bob the Highsec Freighter pilot willing to risk 2b/isk worth of stuff in his triple Expanded Freighter? For this example let's say he is. He should then take the necessary steps to ensure the trip is as safe as possible. The Star Map comes to mind. +1 scout comes to mind. Webbing comes to mind.

Unfortunately, most players don't plan ahead and end up losing their Freighter/s because of it.



Isk tanking is a terrible idea. Also, I believe CCP is in favor of a fleet of players being able to take down a single target (blobbing). Something about being a community of players working together, or something, I don't remember where I saw it.

Also, a random destroyer vs. a random Freighter. Notice the difference in guns? A fleet of destroyers should be able to take out a single Freighter. If you don't agree with the price differences, then change the market.

It should be the players putting forth the effort to stop piracy and ganking, not NPCs, NPCs punish and that's it. Stopping the gank starts with the player.



If by properly fit ship, you mean a ship that must have travel mods and possibly even WCS so that it can run away from Police and other players, then okay. Frigates and destroyers can align fast enough for NPC's, but not always vs. other players.

A -10 player will likely die on the undock of Jita unless they have instas.

A destroyer vs. an escape pod... something tells me the destroyer should win every time.

These of course are my opinions as well. HTH

Captain obvious.... er Starfox

I did take them on the out gate. I think I mentioned I was in an enyo? There are a lot of HP to chew through. It could just crawl back to the gate and jump while I worked on it w/out bumping.

As to the other things. Our opinions differ. I can agree to disagree and leave it at that. We could both spend hours here w/ point and counter point, make up examples and justify anything. This isn't what I would call a new argument in eve.

OP - way wrong to the point where his ideas would break eve

Me - the perfect balance that would end in eve nirvana for all (google "perfection" you'll see my portrait and life story)

You - Well, puppies grow up, learn their manners and eventually behave like they are suposed to (I'm patient, you'll get there)

Because it was the first time it was used to kill freighters. No one before used it on a freighter or another player.


We bump freighters with macharials to move them and stop them from warping.
We do not always need to move them and stop them from warping.

I don't bump anybody with Machs... they do bump them a decent distance usually 100km or so but that's hardly off grid

if it was fit for killing mission bears it was likely active tanked with a cap booster and a neut in the spare